The only thing that has changed is that it is now pointless for the police to try to enforce the guidance, so at least they don’t have to bother.
Nah, they’ve made it so the police don’t have to police the unpolicable.
The other thing I was puzzled by: last week the message of test, track and trace was fundamental. No mention of if this is in place but it's OK to really ramp up the potential for geographic mixing.
No mention of if this is in place
Johnson’s fun little graphic (I’m glad no one here is calling it a graph) suggested that will be in place after many changes, but before full return to school and opening of the hospitality sector.
This. Absolute * shambles. Raab on this morning saying that it was OK to go and meet all your friends in the park as long as you observed social distancing. You can drive as far as you like to go for a walk, so if you live in Ambleside, or Hathersage, or Malham, basically * you.
Was discussing this on FB last night. I expressed hope that because the pubs, cafes, B&Bs were still closed, it might minimise numbers but others said that day trippers coming in would just be bringing their own food, stopping at garages and drive-thru (and probably dumping the litter all over the lanes) and it'd be chaos.
Having seen the urgent "oh shit!" responses from national parks and trail centres on social media as they scrabble to contain the expected influxes, my hope has been largely replaced by a sense of dread.
Nah, they’ve made it so the police don’t have to police the unpolicable.
Round here, they've been turning folk around on the major roads leading into the Dales, and handing out fines to dicks who've driven for hours to wander round Malham.
The comments section on that piece is depressing, and illustrates why leaving it to 'common sense', as Raab put it on the telly, is going to yield a variety of different approaches.
I expressed hope that because the pubs, cafes, B&Bs were still closed,
There seems to be a new trend of eateries rebranding themselves as takeaways, so still providing the same service, just moving their customers onto the pavement outside. As for people bringing their own scoff, that won't happen, they will just pop into (and contaminate) the tiny local Spar shop that the locals rely on for their essentials.
The objective seems to be to allow the maximum level of activity possible whilst maintaining R below 1. Different countries have different strategies.
This.
With the bottom line NOBODY knows what the correct strategy & there’s only one way to find out.......trial & error - as SAF used to say “It’s squeaky bum time.....”
I would suggest you either get off the internet and sit in a dark room until this is all over or get over yourself.
Luckily for me I dont give a **** what you think!
What I’m saying is I don’t think there is a published calculated predicted R number increase of sending kids back in small numbers with an attempt to socially distance, sending them back in small numbers not socially distance and easing of leisure restrictions. I don’t have the data to do that calculation myself and I don’t think anyone else not in government does either.
How would anyone, in or out of government have those numbers?
Or are we back to waffle, experts and stuff?
This is starting to feel like being trapped on a Peruvian bus tearing along the Pan American highway while the crazed driver executes bus-on-bus, three-abreast overtakes on 80mph blind bends while fingering his crucifix. It'll be okay cos there's a chintzy shrine to the Virgin Mary at the front of the bus and a sign reading 'Jesus es mi co-piloto'.
Feeling utterly powerless and with zero confidence in our clown of a leader.
I'm going back to focussing on recovery now. And making the safest decisions I can for myself and everyone around me, but I have never so much wanted to live somewhere else. Norway maybe.
I expressed hope that because the pubs, cafes, B&Bs were still closed, it might minimise numbers but others said that day trippers coming in would just be bringing their own food, stopping at garages and drive-thru (and probably dumping the litter all over the lanes) and it’d be chaos.
We then have a situation where businesses in financial difficulties seeing potential customers walking past the door. Putting the ball in their court as to wether to open and break the rules. Remain closed and watch other business take trade as they have elected to break rules and open. Remain closed and press for bringing in opening before July. Overwhelm communities can also be taken as overwhelm consensus. It will then be held up as will of the people.
The other thing I was puzzled by: last week the message of test, track and trace was fundamental. No mention of if this is in place but it’s OK to really ramp up the potential for geographic mixing.
Yep, without this or an alternative way of limiting spread effectively, it's not a plan, just a series of soundbites. And even if that is 'the plan', do you trust this government to actually do that effectively because I sure as hell don't, witness the whole testing debacle so far.
Whilst there is no predictive model there's a lot of anecdotal evidence about what different levels of protection and distancing lead to with different ages of people, convert. The measures decided are based on experience of conditions that have led to transmission (to be avoided) and measures that have been successful in reducing transmission (to be adopted).
Oooof - golf allowed in England but not Scotland(?) that's just nasty.
not allowing more folk to loll around parks where there will be an inevitable increase in interaction.
But is that increase manageable / within certain limits? We're all ok here, able to get into our gardens and out into the countryside on our expensive bikes but there are millions living in cities who have been 'criminalised' for the act of going to a nearby green space and sitting down in the sunshine for a while. With who knows what impact on mental health, DV, child abuse / neglect, etc. And it is widely held, with good reason that the likelihood of transmission in the open air is pretty low anyway.
Everything from here is a balance, carrying on like we are is not a solution.
Remain closed and watch other business take trade as they have elected to break rules and open.
No cafe/pub/restaurant business that is still open round here (edge of Derbyshire Dales) is breaking any rules. They've figured out how to operate within the rules while keeping staff and customers safe. They aren't making much, if any money either.
Which is exactly what a lot of other businesses around the country have been doing, and will hopefully continue to do when the more detailed guidance comes out shortly.
The other thing I was puzzled by: last week the message of test, track and trace was fundamental. No mention of if this is in place but it’s OK to really ramp up the potential for geographic mixing.
They're trying to distract from the app being a pile of crap and that they're having it redeveloped with the Google & Apple APIs because they actually work, instead of going ahead with the half baked solution.
Though the app is also a distraction from actually doing enough testing, but the ship had sailed there. Should have been mass testing from day one and including everyone arriving at airports etc.
Taking of which, the airport restrictions with self isolation proposed, still not enforced yet. Again this should have been one of the first things way back.
Dominic Raab just got his arse handed to go him on Radio Scotland. Embarrassing.
This thing really seems to have brought out the nastiness in some people. An elderly lady in my parent's village husband died last week (not related to COVID 19). Her daughter who lives alone about an hour's drive away came over to stay with her to give her some company/support. Seems totally fine to me - very low risk scenario in terms of spreading the virus.
One of the neighbours - who is fully aware of the situation - then starts posting nasty notes through her door about having visitors being against the rules! I really do despair - are some people just totally devoid of compassion?
They’ve figured out how to operate within the rules while keeping staff and customers safe.
No, they think they have figured out how to be safe. Whether they have or not is unknowable currently and likely will never be known.
All of this is like that old economics saying about driving a sports car whilst looking out the back window or whatever the actual quote is.
The other thing I was puzzled by: last week the message of test, track and trace was fundamental. No mention of if this is in place but it’s OK to really ramp up the potential for geographic mixing.
^^This^^
We've only just set up a Guineapig trial in the IOW for the government app, physical testing is still mostly limited to people with symptoms or FLW. The levels of infections in the communities Boris has effectively just let lose to mix and mingle are simply unknown...
I can see the roads being a ****ing nightmare from today onwards and we'll probably see a spike in RTIs as people who've not driven much for two months flood them to get to offices (that probably aren't ready for them).
But it’s difficult to point the finger of blame, unless you’ve passed the buck…
Leads to....
how the police decide to interpret it
Which leads to opposite extremes in different places, which make the news. The government then step in to 'clarify' having given themselves more time to figure out what they are actually saying whilst the swivel-eyed loons on all sides pillory 'over-zealous' or 'lax' policing. All depending on their own agenda.
This has got Cummings grubby claw prints all over it.
No cafe/pub/restaurant business that is still open round here (edge of Derbyshire Dales) is breaking any rules. They’ve figured out how to operate within the rules while keeping staff and customers safe. They aren’t making much, if any money either.
Ok maybe I was a bit too broad brush with that one.
How are they going to cope with a sudden turning on the visitor taps. There is a risk of the measures being overwhelmed by the number of the people. 2m queue spacing down a 1.5m width pavement and meandering visitors. Double queue alignment with multiple adjacent businesses being open.
Might be a good time to be in the just eat / take away app business or have a mobile coffee cart.
I can see the roads being a **** nightmare from today onwards and we’ll probably see a spike in RTIs as people who’ve not driven much for two months flood them to get to offices (that probably aren’t ready for them).
What kind of idiot would jump in a car and go to their normal place of work this morning without first talking to their employer and mutually assessing the situation?
According to "Johnson"'s slide last night:
COVID Alert Level = R + number of infections
According to my calculation that makes it about 50,001
@kryton57 - unfortunately i think therer will be a few!!
Pleased to see that its not just BoZo who is being confusing; on wales online they had one of the first ministers teams saying you can't get in your car to travel long distances for lesuire, when the rules are you can't get in you car at all for lesuire.
My thought last night was why not simply give people and business's more notice?
Fine if we are going to do limited relaxation of measures, but to say on the Sunday night that half of the population are encouraged to go back to work tomorrow having only leaked incomplete, draft guidelines on how to setup a workplace a week ago, is basic lunacy.
Most sensible organisations/bosses should be telling employees who cannot work from home, that they'll be getting work areas set up this week and will aim to open the doors to employees from 18/05/20...
Before last night's announcement the population should have been made familiar with the newly introduced "Covid 19 alert scale" and what measures apply to each point along it, I reckon it would take about a week to percolate that information through the population fully.
As it was it was confused rambling shite with some pretty animations...
You do all know that this is herd immunity by stealth - slowly slowly catchy corona....
I am sure they have run lots of numbers against "known" infections/deaths so have a better view if the impact on NHS etc. And what the implications are of this "relaxation"
I am sure they have fairly good timelines in vaccines/treatment (not anytime soon)
They think about 3 to 5 million have been infected and need that to quietly double each quarter for 18 months.
The above are not my wirds... they come from a bloke who has dealt with Ebola in West Africa and currently resides in Porton Down.
Joseph Stalin once said the death of one man is a tragedy, the death of a million men is a statistic. We are well into statistics and the peoples victory is less than 2 years away.
Boris will want his victory parade about 18 months before the next GE and his campaign message will be "Get the debt paid"
What kind of idiot would jump in a car and go to their normal place of work this morning without first talking to their employer and mutually assessing the situation?
You've met some of your neighbours, yeah?
Be interesting to hear if all these people going back to work will have any childcare options and what happens if both parents are told to work by employers following guidelines but the children cant be looked after!
Be interesting to hear if all these people going back to work will have any childcare options and what happens if both parents are told to work by employers following guidelines but the children cant be looked after!
That's OK the grandparents will help out... Oh.
Judging by cars on the A9 this morning at 8am, a good few folk are heading back to work...
It's still not full as usual, but noticeably busier than the last month.
I remember at the beginning of March having an increasing sense of anxiety and fear at the fact that the virus was beginning to spread very rapidly and that it was much worse than the 'mild flu-like' disease that we were originally told, and that we were just going to be left to catch it. Those fears and worries were reduced once we finally entered lockdown and I had a small amount of hope that it would be managed responsibly from that point forward. Well not now. We're right back to square one. They've basically given up, because it's too expensive, too difficult, and requires too much effort. This is going to go down as the biggest and most serious abdication of responsiblity and duty of any british government in history. I look forward to Keir Starmer pointing this out in as plain and direct language as he can find.
You do all know that this is herd immunity by stealth – slowly slowly catchy corona….
Yep. Attempt to push 'managed' waves through the nhs over a period of 12-18 months.
The problem is that, even given the obvious (and possibly sensible) reluctance on the part of the Johnson Rabble to admit to all of this, they can't be trusted to even get the little short term steps right.
But it sure is going to be a good year to bury a bad Brexit, though....
They’ve basically given up, because it’s too expensive, too difficult, and requires too much effort
So much this. All the 'Independent trading nation, rule Britannia, leading the world' **** fantasies crumbled to dust the minute we actually need to have a go at joined up thinking.
As the public, we are now on our own. I suspect they will fire up the culture war a bit more shortly so we turn on each other instead of burning down Number 10.
A useful bit of deconstruction:
I suspect they will fire up the culture war a bit more shortly so we turn on each other instead of burning down Number 10.
Didn't they all ready fan the flames of that when the announce COVID19 was racist?
We’re right back to square one. They’ve basically given up, because it’s too expensive, too difficult, and requires too much effort. This is going to go down as the biggest and most serious abdication of responsibility and duty of any British government in history. I look forward to Keir Starmer pointing this out in as plain and direct language as he can find.
My sentiments exactly Daz. This is a government basically saying '**** it! Let it just run its course and we'll see where we are this time next year'. It's taking their usual recklessness to ridiculous new levels. There is obviously going to be a massive second spike in infections in 2 weeks' time. The rest of the world, with the possible exception of Merica, must be looking at this with absolute incredulity.
We've made a decision that we're going to double down on our lockdown as we live in one of those places that everyone is now going to be driving too. At the moment the car parks are still all blocked off around Holcombe Hill. I presume they'll be opening them all again and inviting everyone to come for a walk
So much this. All the ‘Independent trading nation, rule Britannia, leading the world’ **** fantasies crumbled to dust the minute we actually need to have a go at joined up thinking.
As the public, we are now on our own. I suspect they will fire up the culture war a bit more shortly so we turn on each other instead of burning down Number 10.
Just think how much easier it would have been for them if we were in the EU. They could have claimed to be following pan-European scientific advice and having policy shaped by the rest of the EU (falsely in the main but when has that ever stopped them and morons believing them before?)
The blame could then be pinned on Europe. Irony is a bitch, isn't it?
Yep. Attempt to push ‘managed’ waves through the nhs over a period of 12-18 months.
The problem is that, even given the obvious (and possibly sensible) reluctance on the part of the Johnson Rabble to admit to all of this, they can’t be trusted to even get the little short term steps right.
from my mate at hospital in west london
I don't know what the other clinicians have heard but we had a Registrar meeting last Thursday - our hospital (Trust) is planning for a Second peak of Covid in June/July and then a third in Sept/Oct
Those fears and worries were reduced once we finally entered lockdown and I had a small amount of hope that it would be managed responsibly from that point forward.
We were far too late .. "guidance" too vague and we still haven't actually locked down. NZ was already quarantining at Crankworx Rotorua whilst Boris was shaking hands with Covid patients..
We are all waffle experts and no more. You know this already. I would suggest you either get of the internet and sit in a dark room until this is all over or get over yourself.
This idea that the virus will be different and act differently here ? That we are somehow better than those "backwards" Europeans ?
All anyone needs to do is compere to other countries that are ahead and what happened.
You do all know that this is herd immunity by stealth – slowly slowly catchy corona….
I'm surprised that's even a question ... 😉
Be interesting to hear if all these people going back to work will have any childcare options and what happens if both parents are told to work by employers following guidelines but the children cant be looked after!
Well some will have older siblings that can get infected so they can then extend herb immunity into secondary schools and pre-schools...
We got sent our child appropriate literature from the school, good to know you can't actually die from COVID-19 though some people can be quite sick but if you cough into your elbow it's fine you can't transmit or catch the virus.
And they're planning to blame us for their failure.
You can already see evidence of this on social media. Tory apologists all over the place saying 'it's not the governments fault if people ignore the lockdown' and other such nonsense. I guess the only question now is what the death toll will be. 100,000? 200,000? I wonder how many have to die before the idiots who voted for these c**** open their eyes?
Just seen the article on the BBC about Raab saying use some common sense.
It goes on to say
However, the UK government put out a clarification saying people can only meet one person outside if you follow social distancing - not two people, such as both parents, at the same time.
It comes after Mr Raab incorrectly told the Today programme that someone could meet both their parents at the same time "if there's 2m apart".
So I could go to park to see my daughter (from 2 meters) yet my wife (with whom I live) would have to stay away. Presumably she could stand outside the park until I leave, and then go in and have a chat with daughter. How the **** does that make any sense whatsoever?
This idea that the virus will be different and act differently here ? That we are somehow better than those “backwards” Europeans ?
All anyone needs to do is compere to other countries that are ahead and what happened.
Quote out of context. A_A was argumentatively objecting to anyone (apart from him obvs) conjecturing about future paths out. I was suggesting that in a forum such as this that was all he was likely to find. Your point is valid but irrelevant to the quote you attached it to.
A useful bit of deconstruction:
Interesting, who is he?
Having seen the urgent “oh shit!” responses from national parks and trail centres on social media as they scrabble to contain the expected influxes, my hope has been largely replaced by a sense of dread.
Perfect example of lack of leadership...
Obviously the NT aren't epidemologists ... but when they announced "free parking and entry" no-one in government felt like saying "nice sentiment but please retract that".
How hard would that have been ... ???
