Ernie, you're trolling!
I like the idea of restorative justice,however, what do we do when they don't turn up? It is the latest thing in the schools just now, a similar age group as a lot of the rioters as well. It has a few "teething problems" shall we say.The problem is that the people doing it, has to accept they have done something wrong AND that they should put it right.
There's some merit for the idea of criminals volunteering to join, especially as it would give them all sorts of skills which are transferable in to civilian life when they've done their time
like firearms and fighting? that's what we need, armed rioters with military training
Vengeance pure and simple.
yes this we need more of this. If only we all fully embrace vengeance can we have a peaceful law abiding society
Ernie, you're trolling!
What, you mean I really I think that 'corporal punishment' is the answer, and that these 'oiks' are too tough a job for the armed forces ?
How bizarre......why would I think that duckman ? 😕
💡 Maybe it's 'cause I come across as your typical Mail/Telegraph reader ?
Fundamental breakdown in morality.
Wasn't one of the looters up before the beaks today already a member of the armed forces. Seems they have little idea of teaching discipline and respect to volunteers, never mind conscripts.
Ha! Sue W, Pretty sure that wasn't me, 15 years ago, I was 17!
Pretty sure no-one interviewed me about a Phd, either. I've forgotten things before, though...
I was just responding to Ernie's question: How would corporal punishment diminish people's desire to commit crime?
Not "why we should reintroduce it" or "what this country needs is.." or any of that, just the question above, which I thought was pretty obvious.
[url= http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/7337 ]Convicted rioters should lose all benefits[/url]
🙄
In Germany when you leave school everyone has to do a year of "national service" you can either go join the army or choose to do community work.. Most folk I know over there choose the second option..
Might not be a bad start? Doubt it would happen here tho.. Too many folk against the idea I'm guessing.
Would be a start tho..
No Ernie, I meant your poking of the Captain. It's hard for him just now, he couldn't get to the Bullingdon club because of the unrest.
Althepal,what do you do to the huge numbers that refuse to do either?
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Wasn't one of the looters up before the beaks today already a member of the armed forces
No, they had applied to join- they hadn't even made through phase 1.
Community payback - there's plenty of work cleaning up and making poor areas a nicer place to live. It would bring the communities closer together. getting everyone helping out with local charities and schemes could be a good idea. Instill a bit of pride for having achieved something worthwhile. They should be tagged as well until sentence is complete
And if that doesn't work a 9mm slug to the temple
I think the sad truth is to keep them happy and living just above the bread line.
what ever way they WILL ALWAYS TAKE TAKE TAKE - It will cost the tax payer which ever way
I would personaly like to see my tax money being spent on locking them up now.
In Germany when you leave school everyone has to do a year of "national service" you can either go join the army or choose to do community work.. Most folk I know over there choose the second option..
Might not be a bad start? Doubt it would happen here tho.. Too many folk against the idea I'm guessing.
Would be a start tho..
But there are lots of ways around it, it tends to be just the lower half of society that ends up doing it, and they are used as slave labour.
If you are going to do that kind of thing it really must be everyone in doing the same jobs being treated exactly the same, and we know very well that just would never happen.
I think the unpalatable truth is that we are facing something very different from the riots of the 80s. The mix of people who are being arrested for participating in this includes some people with half-decent jobs, so this is not simply about simmering resentment of being trapped on benefits with no obvious way out, although that will be a factor for some people.
If you encourage the formation of a nation of self-focused individualists and surround them with a multi-sensory experience that inculcates the mindset that you create your identity via the consumption of material goods, while at the same time being careless of the institutions and practices that create the social capital that constrains people's behaviour in all sorts of subtle ways, then it shouldn't really come as a massive surprise when one day, enough people realise that there is very little stopping them from doing what they've done, apart from the inherited social constraints that they don't actually care about anymore.
None of this is that new; it was being talked about in the 80s when Margaret Thatcher's Conservative government prodded the country more firmly in this direction, and it was what prompted the Borrie Commission to talk about the "balance of rights and responsibilities" that Tony Blair used as a soundbite and then did little to try and foster.
I'm not sure whether it's possible to put the genie back in the bottle now that it's out, but I do not that any meaningful solution will take a generation or more, be very labour intensive and probably require some creative (and costly) "carrots" to accompany a series of fair but firm "sticks".
(EDIT: a year of post-school "community service" actually sounds like a brilliant idea, as long as it can be kept out of the hands of businesses who are only looking to make a quick buck, and educators who want to centralise control via an imposed curriculum)
Nice post.
I think the Saturday night riots were more to do with the socio-economic factors, disillusionment/hoplessness/anger but as soon as it was seen the 'we can get away with it' it spread to selfish, opportunistic greed which has parallels in the complete opposite of the social spectrum. What to people expect when the gap between rich and poor is bigger than ever and growing?
The good stole trillions the bad stole TVs.
I also think that it's about time we started looking at options other than punitive justice. Pretty damn clear it's not working and is massively expensive in terms of money and society imo.
This is the perfect opportunity to trail restorative justice, get the rioters to return the goods they stole, fix the businesses they wrecked, meet the people whose lives they've destroyed and rebuild the buildings they've destroyed.
This is the perfect opportunity to trail restorative justice, get the rioters to return the goods they stole, fix the businesses they wrecked, meet the people whose lives they've destroyed and rebuild the buildings they've destroyed.
Yes. Very yes.
The students and graphic designers were up for looting, not rioting weren't they?
Is it even possible given the way that modern party politics operates that any meaningful change can be made? My suspicion is that the level of finance required combined with the divisive nature of the issue would make any party that embarked down a road of measures to bring about social change unelectable beyond a single term. And a single term would not be long enough to even make a dent in the problem.
Chemical castration - job done
fix the businesses they wrecked, meet the people whose lives they've destroyed and rebuild the buildings they've destroyed.
Nice theory but by the time a sentence has been dished out the affected site has probably already been cleared up and how are unskilled y00t going to rebuild buildings ?
Chemical castration - job done
If I wasn't an angry and disenfranchised individual beforehand I certainly would be after having my little fella disabled.
Is it even possible given the way that modern party politics operates that any meaningful change can be made? My suspicion is that the level of finance required combined with the divisive nature of the issue would make any party that embarked down a road of measures to bring about social change unelectable beyond a single term. And a single term would not be long enough to even make a dent in the problem.
Absolutely: what we'll get today are short-term, flashy responses to an ingrained problem, because even the smartest, most insightful politicians are largely constrained by the desire to win the next election, and to do that, they need the votes of the "hard of thinking" who form their responses to the current situation largely on the basis of the editorials in papers like the Sun or the Daily Mail. Which takes us nicely back to News International, and the issue of whether they've done far more damage to this country than the riots of the last week, just without all the dramatic footage on TV.
PS - nice to see Rupert's just posted a nice big profit again, despite all his troubles in the last few months.
How about a potential solution that will help with the recession?
Offer all the rioters a free holiday? It works like this:
Airlines and holiday companies are struggling at the moment. So the government could perhaps cease bombing Libya for an evening and spend the cash on a few jumbo jets for a trip to Mogadishu (capital of Somalia), one way of course. Its perfect for the people at the heart of the disorder. It has fabulous beaches, lots of sunshine so perfect for going out on the streets and as they have no government ideal for the lawlessness they crave. If they want to smash the up place they can without having to worry anyone.
However, this gets better. Once out there, the authorities could accidently lose all their passports and paperwork in an a fire when they left the items in a carpet shop in Tottenham, these things happen.
As the holiday makers are so happy with their new lives, then their "job-seekers allowance" (tongue-in-cheek phrase) will not be required to be issued thus saving the country a few bob. Police time won't be wasted as these people are usually arrested on a regular basis. Housing will be available for those who lost their homes in the riots.
Now we all know how hard it is to leave loved ones when you're about to go on 'holiday'. So perhaps invite all the shopowners to the airport to "see off" the tourists, you know give them a "slap on the back", etc.
Oh I almost forgot. The scum have to travel with RyanAir (which is probably the worst part of the whole 'holiday'). If they haven't pre-checked in then they are subjected to not being able to travel in their favourite tracksuit. No items of luggage are permitted on the flight, which includes anyone wearing new pairs of trainers.
Holiday makers will be encouraged to send postcards home telling us of their lovely time.
This could even lead to a new series for Ross Kemp as he visits the tourists and asks how their accomodation and food is?
Off course a holiday like this cost money so before they go they are made to clear up the areas they made a mess off, with the public encouraged to make their job as difficult as possible.
I DON'T THINK MUCH WILL HAPPEN TO BE HONEST!
sick of hearing all the crap by Cameron now - the police can have what ever they need, cobra meetings - all the things the public want to hear are now being promised - oh wait the horse has already bolted.
talk is cheap and Cameron is just paying lip service now!!!!
now hes jumping on the councils idea of evicting and grabbing a few free brownie points 👿
Lawmanmx - Member
anyone read This?
http://nathanieltapley.com/2011/08/10/an-open-letter-to-david-camerons-parents/
That is fantastic, thanks for sharing. Nothing like a bit of moral perspective.
It looks like the Manchester Scrotes are being processed and jailed at this very moment.
[url= http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/s/1455374_instant-justice-faces-of-first-men-jailed-for-their-part-in-manchester-and-salford-riots?rss=yes ]Link[/url]