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An ex senior copper has said a few times, the prisons are full, the kids arent afraid, and are defiant, most of them are in poorly paid or no jobs, so they have no income to seize, if you take their council houses off them the governmnet still has to pay them Housing benefit,they have few useful skills of use to the rest of civilisation.
So what can we do with them, death is not an option.
Medical experiments?
Organ donation? Mt daughter could do with a new pancreas.
Army, and pack them off to the middle east, two problems solved
Landfill
just give them all the birch.
a little bit of suffering is good for the soul.
One of the things I am always keen on - restorative justice. Cleaning up the city. 40 hrs a week of unpaid labour for as long as seems reasonable. months perhaps.
chain gangs - there's a high speed railway that needs building.....after they tidy up first
That's a very good point, and one that nicely illustrates the problem with the intellectually feeble authoritarian concept of crime and punishment.
The best way to stop people committing crimes is to stop them wanting to commit crimes...
[i]An ex senior copper has said a few times, the prisons are full[/i]
Not entirely true, we've got 4 spare cells on G wing alone, we would've had 5 but one's been smashed & will be out of action for some time cos works don't have a sink or toilet that will fit. (don't even ask why)
There aren't actually that many of them, enough that its a lot to deal with in one go but not so many that prison or any other punishment isn't an option.
What have council houses got to do with anything?
As for the rioters that have been identified so far - primary school worker, graphic designer, student, squaddy.
Organ donation has already been suggested as a way for students to clear their debts and the squaddy almost definiately won't see active service now.
[i]The best way to stop people committing crimes is to stop them wanting to commit crimes...[/i]
Lets hear it then.
could juts go back to manual rock crushing, i am sure there are a few islands off the scottish coast that could be used as granite quarries.
give them the odd food drop and some tools and leave them to it.
corporal punishment will make em want to stop commiting crimes.
Ton, I love you. (not literally of course) 😳
😆
corporal punishment will make em want to stop commiting crimes.
have to agree corporal punishment isn't going to work, just need to find away of removing from society and getting something useful done.
essel - when I worked in the jail my overwhelming impression was what a waste of everyone time. I was in Pentonville - there were many hundreds of young men in there doing absolutly eff all day after day. especially when incarcerating most of them will change nothing
It just seemed such a waste.
Your thoughts seeing as we are on a crime and punishment sort of day>
Good point TJ
Hard labour would at least mean they were doing something instead of doing absolutly eff all day after day.
Personally, I've always been in favour of Prisons becoming domestic recycling sorting centres! Give 'em a chance to do something for the benefit of society and the environment.
Bin lorries in one end, recycling out the other 😀
How about an amnesty for them?
They'll have to work for it though first, drop them off in the middle of the English Channel and if they make it back to shore they are free to go.
We need to outsource. I'm sure the Chinese would provide prison places for a reasonable price. Zimbabwe could do with some cash I'd imagine.
TandemJeremy
One of the things I am always keen on - restorative justice. Cleaning up the city. 40 hrs a week of unpaid labour for as long as seems reasonable. months perhaps
I'm all for this but it should be taken a step further with all unemployed been given work to do regardless of what they did before. It would keep them occupied, install working ethics in those that haven't worked before and hopefully give themselves some respect. The public services would have more than enough staff and a solution to elderly care.
Just because I've agreed with you on this don't let it go to your head, I'm sure we can disagree later.
One of the things I am always keen on - restorative justice. Cleaning up the city. 40 hrs a week of unpaid labour for as long as seems reasonable. months perhaps.
OMG.. I agree with TJ, except the 40 hours a week bit.. work them so hard they are to knackered to do anything else
corporal punishment will make em want to stop commiting crimes.
Can you elaborate on that - why would it do that ? Or haven't you thought about it ?
Personally I can't imagine that corporal punishment would be any more effective in stopping re-offending than other available options.
Of course you could be just trolling ton, in which case, please accept my sincerest apologies for missing an obvious troll.
I just hope they don't start issuing [s]ASBOs[/s] medals.
I believe though's that are under age But happy to do the crime
Should be sentenced but do the sentence when they are of age.
Because at the moment they know that they are of age that they can't be touched.
Also get rid of the Human rights too.
Also get rid of the Human rights too.
What a good idea! Can I come round your house with a load of mates, smash your home up, rape your wife, torture your kids and then murder you all then?
Courts have already seen some, if they have pleaded guilty, some have been sentenced. Some are awaiting sentencing, but the first one I read about got a fine, £150! Was kind of hoping for a bit more.
There's alway the Soylent Green option of course - not sure how nutritious the end product would be though..
I agree with TJ,, theres so much work that could be done as restorative justice, like building cycle tracks, building trails, painting railings cutting hedges and lawns,recycling sorting,and quite a few more things as well.
But then what do all the council workers do , that already get paid to do such jobs.
I believe though's that are under age But happy to do the crime
Should be sentenced but do the sentence when they are of age.Because at the moment they know that they are of age that they can't be touched.
Also get rid of the Human rights too.
We're talking about England though - north of the border its a different matter but down there the age of criminal resposibility is 10 years old, and there are plenty of children in prison, some for quite trivial offenses.
Watched a documentary about children in prison all round the world, featuring a 12 year old England serving 8 months for nicking some golf clubs and some pokemon cards.
I think the Soylent Green option would be better applied to STWers; I mean, they'll be better nourished, woon't they? Not scraggy or fatty and full of chemicals....
corporal punishment will make em want to stop commiting crimes.Can you elaborate on that - why would it do that ? Or haven't you thought about it ?
Erm...?
I can imagine the prospect of a birching within 2 days of being convicted giving me a bit more pause for thought than the prospect of a 4 week suspended sentence.
Speak for yourself you little fatty - i've just been to the chippy! 😛 😆
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The best way to stop people committing crimes is to stop them wanting to commit crimes...
Lets hear it then
I don't have all the answers, obviously, but it's clear that what we do now doesn't work very well.
The best way I know of to stop people wanting to commit crimes is to improve conditions and education for everyone.
It would keep them occupied, install working ethics in those that haven't worked before
HAHAHAH! Forced labour instils a work ethic does it? Priceless! 😆
TandemJeremy - Member
One of the things I am always keen on - restorative justice. Cleaning up the city. 40 hrs a week of unpaid labour for as long as seems reasonable. months perhaps.
OH FFS! I agree with TJ!
The best way to stop people committing crimes is to stop them wanting to commit crimes...
lobotomies?
Of course corporal punishment will work - as long as you use enough of it...
nedrapier - MemberErm...?
I can imagine the prospect of a birching within 2 days of being convicted giving me a bit more pause for thought than the prospect of a 4 week suspended sentence.
Are we talking about [i]you[/i] then ?
And who mentioned a "4 week suspended sentence" ? .....neither me nor ton did.
Of course corporal punishment will work - as long as you use enough of it...
Well they use capital punishment in the states and they still have plenty of crime there. Why would that be I wonder?
Of course corporal punishment will work - as long as you use enough of it...
Well they use capital punishment in the states and they still have plenty of crime there. Why would that be I wonder?
The states illustrates TJ's point quite well - draconian sentencing, death penalties, the whole lot - and the result - massive crime rates and the biggest prison population in the world, by a massive factor.
Well they use capital punishment in the states and they still have plenty of crime there. Why would that be I wonder?
Reoffending rates from those subject to capital punishment seem to be pretty low though Molgrips 😉
INRAT
Tazer them until they sh*t themselves
ernie,: eh?. That's not a good way of moving the conversation on.
If you don't like the way I put it, imagine I said this:
"It would do that because the prospect of physical pain, possibly combined with public humiliation, would be more of a deterrent than the prospect of a small fine with an even smaller possibility of being collected and/or a short suspended sentence"
I'm not saying it should be brought in, it needs to be brought in, or that bringing it in immediately would cure all society's ills at a stroke, but you questioning the assertion that it could possibly deter crime is a bit facile. Just trolling for an argument, otherwise you'd have said something a bit more moderate and sensible.
But I bit, there's a response anyway. We've probably moved on by 30 posts by the time I post it anyway! hey ho.
Edit: missed your edit. I made up the 4 week suspended sentence as a hypothetical example of an alternative punishment. I also missed the fact that I'm a repeat troll accuser!
The states illustrates TJ's point quite well - draconian sentencing, death penalties, the whole lot - and the result - massive crime rates and the biggest prison population in the world, by a massive factor
But Singapore has the same draconian sentencing etc, and is one of the safest places in the world.
But Singapore has the same draconian sentencing etc, and is one of the safest places in the world.
precisely, so something other than punishment is the factor in why people do or don't commit crimes