[Closed] What's wrong with New Labour?

*Pulls up a chair*

Seeing as it's still early, I have some rather nice coffee from my local deli. It's a half Italian, half French blend that he grinds up for me. Rather nice it is too. Oh, and there are some Chocolate Olivers on the table over there, help yourself.

Well he certainly seems to have her number.

I don't normally like Monbiot's pieces but that's a well crafted kicking.

Here's her piece: [url] http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/feb/06/response-hazel-blears-politics-monbiot [/url]

Rebellion is not the basis for a progressive political outlook. Progressive politics is about trying to solve the problem, not complaining that someone else has failed to.

Really? Does that include complaining that previous governments have 'failed' or is it only the current government we can't complain about?

Progressive politics is about trying to bring about real change, not kowtow to 'the leader' and the whip.

sounds fair,

A brilliantly crafted kicking, as stated above.

whats wrong with New Labour?

wouldnt the easier letter (and short too) be 'whats right with New Labour' ?

Dear Sir

i think New Labour is good for the following things...

umm er..

regards
a peasant

That gets a 10

content was top notch,

but no searing, avoiding the swear filter, random capitals, spelling mistakes, incoherance, deviation and to top it all it had a point! Each loosing 1 point, but in the grand new labour way of presenting statistics im going to mark it out of 17 an not tell anyone.

Can't say I particuarly like Hazel Blears (tbh, it's the first time I've heard of her - for whatever reason she doesn't appear much in the Spanish press), but the "well-crafted kicking" is anything but. The following paragraph, for instance, is pure propaganda:

Other threads are harder to follow. In 2003, for instance, you voted against a fully elected House of Lords and in favour of a chamber of appointed peers. In 2007, you voted for a fully elected House of Lords. You have served without public complaint in a government which has introduced the minimum wage but blocked employment rights for temporary and agency workers; which talked of fiscal prudence but deregulated the financial markets; which passed the Climate Change Act but approved the construction of a third runway at Heathrow; which spoke of an ethical foreign policy but launched an illegal war in which perhaps a million people have died. Either your principles, by some remarkable twists of fate, happen to have pre-empted every contradictory decision this government has taken, or you don't possess any.

Most of the points here are highly debateable - four years is certainly enough to change one's mind; the minimum wage has nothing to do with temporary and agency worker rights; climate change may or may not be worsened by a third runway at HTR; the Iraq war was lost after it was won...

If he'd left it at proving she's a complete sycophant (which she undoubtably is) he'd have been onto a winner, but he's not paid to do that, he's paid to stir things up.

And CFH: Italian/French coffee??? Grown in Umbria and the Loire valley?

Mogrim, it's in Italian and French roast, as opposed to grown there, obviously! 😉

the minimum wage has nothing to do with temporary and agency worker rights

All are about workers rights and protecting the poorest paid.

climate change may or may not be worsened by a third runway at HTR

Really? They're going to spend a fortune building a new runway, but they're not going to put any more flights on to make the money back?

the Iraq war was lost after it was won...

But it was always illegal and therefore unethical

Only 'new' thing about new labour is their houses and cars!

Fantastic.
Any coffee and biscuits left? I can do fresh organic roast espresso if it's run out. (Monmouth St blend).

miketually: "Workers' rights" is a bit of a meaningless phrase, in that it can be extended to almost anything. The third runway at HTR might allow bigger and more economical planes to land - given that airspace is the limiting factor in southern England, the link to climate change is arguable. And illegal is not the same as unethical.

CFH: If you buy Jamaican Blue Mountain coffee, must it be roasted on the slopes of said mountain?

mogrim, I believe that Blue Mountain is a bit like the AOC classification in French wine, in that it should come from the location. Willing to be proved wrong however. Never been overly keen on the stuff myself.

Cant wait for people to roll up saying its all Thatchers fault almost two decades later still.

I didnt like Tony, he rode the credit wave, built a bigger public sector.. had the opportunity to reel everything in in 2001/2002 but let it continue but at least he wasnt spineless on the home/world stage.

.. but at least he wasnt spineless on the home/world stage

What?

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I have my principles, if you don't like them i have some others.

"[i] climate change may or may not be worsened by a third runway at HTR[/i]"

are remember this is Monbigot.

Climate Change is a Man Made Disaster... Cars are completely evil and should be banned, (unless you move to the country side and suddenly find you need one)

Planes are evil and nobody should fly... (unless your off round the world on a book signing session!)

OK here's my summary:

People on the left have a belief that they have the moral high ground. Therefore anything they say is correct and other views can safely be ignored and if people disagree they may need to be coerced, for their own good (Monbiot fits very nicely into this mold).

New Labour however threw out some of the old lefist ideas in favour of pragmatism in all things, coupled with an almost touching attachment to managerialism , central control and management consultants.

What you are left with is a government that has no clear idea where it is going but really does believe that whatever it does and says must be right, by definition, and therefore cracks down on any dissent, first within the party and latterly within the country as a whole. So, civil liberties can be taken away or ignored because it is for our own good. What is in Labour's interest is in the country's interest, the two are conflated in the minds of many senior Labour politicians. The left wing ideals have been thrown away and all that remains is the authoritarianism.

They are past their sell by date.

Porterclough,

[img] [/img]

sootyandjim oops I mean less spineless than Brown. Funniest thing is even with the third runway the government thinks we will meet our carbon emission targets. Funny that, I wonder who he is going to really target to get these emission targets fulfilled. Foreigners can travel through our transport hub with greater convenience thanks to the little English people below crippled and struggling with their independence curtailed. Thanks Brown. you royally know how to manage a business well dont you? I wonder how in demand he will be on the after-dinner circuit.

porterclough - That was articulate, concise, lucid, rational and reasoned. And it made perfect sense

Now, go and sit in the corner and have a think about what it is you've done. This is an internet forum. We'll have none of that nonsense around these parts

"People on the left have a belief that they have the moral high ground."

Hmm, I've yet to hear anyone affiliated to "the right" publicly admit self doubt...perhaps you mean,

"All career politicians present the veneer that they occupy the moral high ground", which would neutralise the rest of your post, and support Monbiots assertion that the gaping void of ideology and choice is what disenfranchises voters.

Was Nulab ever "left wing" as such anyway?

Clarkson summed our PM pretty well last week I thought!

Was Nulab ever "left wing" as such anyway?

I don't think they've ever sold themselves as right-wing. They definitely consider themselves a socialist party though, which is sort of left wing I suppose.

All parties on offer depress me. For a 'forward' nation is that all we have? Politicians who are no better than Italian ones?

I reckon RudeFred or whatever his name is should take charge of the country, with CFH as his Chancellor.

Would be far more entertaining than the current farce.

But it was always illegal and therefore unethical

Something that is illegal does not have to be unethical.

Something that is illegal does not have to be unethical.

It's pretty hard to argue the ethical nature of planning, preparing, initiating and waging a war of aggression though.

"They definitely consider themselves a socialist party though"

Well I consider myself tall dark and handsome, so it must be true 😀

It could be argued that such a war could be a liberating force.

If the government of Zimbabwe were ousted, it would be illegal but would it be ethical? I think it would.

Unsurprisingly, [url= http://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/alan_milburn/darlington ]my MP voted very similarly to Blears[/url].

my problem with nu labour is that really all they ever were was the torries in disguise
they favoured big business, privatisation, the house of lords, the financial service economy, didnt join the euro, oil hungry war, raiding the pension funds as done by lawson and lamont, letting fat cats avoid taxes etc etc

about all they ever did good was the minimum wage and pump tax money into the NHS

the real tragedy of nulabour was that its just window dressing and spin disguising a lot of the same old torry policies, if not for the finacial meltdown the torries would have no chance at the next election, simply because they are pretty much the same party with inferior PR and a bit more xenephobia thrown in, cameron is a clone of young tony blair, gordon as derided as john major
ive still yet to hear a tory or labour answer to the global financial crisis

oh and stepping in and bosnia and fixing northern ireland were good things too

is being short a disability?

I don't want to do a Clarkson

"I wonder how in demand he will be on the after-dinner circuit. "

He is a pretty big target and with that gimpy eye he'd never see the bread rolls coming 🙂

PMSL @ conkerman!

"fixing northern ireland ",

Strangely enough, it's John Major who recieves that accolade in the colonies for talking with those dastardly "terrorists", when Mo Mowlam did the real work. Ten years on, it's hard to believe the calibre of of British govt talent spunked against the wall, Robin Cook included.

I bet people wouldn't diss Labour if we had the markets of 2000 back again!

I'd rather do something myself for this country instead of moaning.

Porterclough and conkerman get my vote for best responses. Top writing, sirs.

Who else sees nowt between Nulab and NuCon? eh? Who's going to vote for either come the time? Care to explain why the country can't do better?