[Closed] What's the world coming to?

I suspect most just haven't got a clue what to do / feel too self consciouos to do anything and a few just genuinely don't give a shit.

Bystander effect is pretty common, but the majority of people have no training in this kind of thing and just freeze.

Should be compulsory in schools.

Good job pat12. The world needs folk who get involved. The rest need their phones hoofing.
Also a good reminder - I have some 1st aid training that I have put off that I need to complete.

Just thank the lord that you're not one of those people. Life can't be very fulfilling if you're prepared to stand by and ignore somebody in obvious distress and in need of help.

I had a similar thing in an airport a few years ago. An old guy passed out and smacked his head on the marble floor. Blood everywhere. Me and another bloke ran over to see he was ok, stop the bleeding and get help. everyone else just ignored it and some looked quite irritated that we were in the way and preventing them getting their luggage off the carousel

There have been lots of psychological studies into this sort of thing - how very few people initially want to be involved (is it a scam or some kind of trick, they don't know what to do, they're scared,... but critically it's because no-one else is doing anything).

Once that chain is broken and some people start to do things and, importantly, take charge, most people will actually be reasonably helpful.

The fascinating one is simulating a fire in a building like an office - some people actually notice the smoke but don't say anything because they don't want to create a fuss!

You hear of people being injured in the street and people just walking past. Now i believe it

Not helped by the "safety advice" given (usually via stories shared on social media which contain a grain of truth and sound plausible rather than actual official police advice) telling drivers not to stop in case it's a trap and they're about to be car-jacked and pedestrians to cross the road in case it's some kind of elaborate mugging ploy.
Certainly when I got knocked off my bike in a busy Manchester street, no-one came to my aid. One driver hooted at me as I was lying in the road, having very clearly seen me and my bike go flying.

Great work in dealing with it so well @pat12

I can't really take any credit, didn't do that much, apart from repeatedly asking if she was ok 🙂

Just odd because it's not like we were being asked to break up a fight or deal with someones blood, was just a girl sparko on the floor of the train.

I've done a few first aid courses with work over the years and one when my first kid was born but its just something that never seems to stick.

Honestly my first thought was 'not sure what to do, wait and see if anyone else helps' but nobody was forthcoming then when i went to help so did the other person, thankfully.

Honestly my first thought was ‘not sure what to do, wait see if anyone else helps’ but nobody was forthcoming then when i went to help so did the other person, thankfully.

I'm a lapsed first aider at work, the "oh bugger, no one else is moving I'd better do something" moment never goes away.

A heart surgeon client of mine told me once about how he tried to help someboby aboard a flight he was on who was having a huge heart attack. The pilot had asked if there was a doctor on board and he had stepped up to help. He said the other passenegers were actually standing over the patient filming it when he got there and stayed filming while he started CPR. Sadly even with expert help the person sadly didn't make it.

Maybe they feel that, once a couple of people have started to help, that they wouldn't have anything else to add and would be getting in the way?

Maybe they feel that, once a couple of people have started to help, that they wouldn’t have anything else to add and would be getting in the way?

This is exactly what I was about to write...

Thing is, when it happened, i looked around the train and i was gobsmacked at the response.

Hang on a minute. Someone collapsed and there were two people helping them, one apparently skilled - on a cramped train - so what did you want everyone else to do? If they can't help any better than the skilled first aider, what can they do except stay out of the way.

I passed someone on the floor the other day in town. There was a group of about four young people helping and organising an ambulance. In fact, I've passed maybe four or five people either collapsed or in the act of collapsing, and each time multiple people ran to their aid and appeared competent. In that case, there's no need for me to do anything and I'd actually be hindering things and possibly adding to the humiliation of the person involved by essentially being a gawper.

EDIT Actually there was that one time I picked up someone who'd been knocked over on a cyclepath and was ok; and the time I did have to organise an ambulance for a cyclist and sorted out the logistics of his and his mate's bike.

Maybe they feel that, once a couple of people have started to help, that they wouldn’t have anything else to add and would be getting in the way?

agreed and thats probably somthing i would tell myself in that situation.

However i think what i'm describing is the moment in time between her collapsing (like a sack of spuds) and someone helping.

As i admitted to before i'd probably make a sort of move towards helping whilst waiting for someone else to step in. But in this instance nothing - if anything there felt like a real lack of concern which looking back i guess i found a bit shocking.

It got to a point where me as a relucant by-stander felt if i didn't go actually no-one would.

Hang on a minute. Someone collapsed and there were two people helping them, one apparently skilled – on a cramped train – so what did you want everyone else to do?

see above

Not to complete their morning commute whilst ignoring the seamingly unconsious girl on the floor of the train i think.

Not to complete their morning commute whilst ignoring the seamingly unconsious girl on the floor of the train i think.

By doing what, all standing around her and staring at the people who are already helping her?

By doing what, all standing around her and staring at the people who are already helping her?

sorry but you've missed my point, once someone is assisting her i have absolutly no issue with what everyone else does.

Honestly my first thought was ‘not sure what to do, wait and see if anyone else helps’ but nobody was forthcoming

I expect a lot of people felt the same, only for a little bit longer, then someone did help.

As above if you have nothing to add to the situation then what are you supposed to do? Standing around staring won't help.

Obviously someone needs to help, and they may need more help. Once there is a few people involved keeping out the way is probably the best thing for everybody else. There does need to be someone to go first and ideally quite quickly, so well done for stepping up.

sorry but you’ve missed my point, once someone is assisting her i have absolutly no issue with what everyone else does.

Okay, so how long was it before someone assisted her?

it was a long time, even by my standards. a minute or more perhaps (least it felt like that), i saw it from further back and had to go down the carriage.

Crazy-legs said pretty much what I wanted to. The bystander thing, if you were to shout "someone phone an ambulance" then it's likely that no-one would because they'd assume someone else was doing it; if instead you pointed at someone randomly and yelled "YOU! phone an ambulance" they'd do it.

Also, part of it I think is fear. "I don't really know what I'm doing, if I try to help I might do the wrong thing and make it worse, if I do nothing then it's not my fault."

These are excellent. https://www.amazon.com/300-Yard-Balloon-Slingshot-Cannon-Launcher/dp/B00AL57GEW if you get good with them it's like a mortar and you can launch them from really far away so that they have absolutely no idea where they're coming from, especially at night. Needs 3 people to get the max distance and a spotter for accuracy but you can get a good 100 yards on your own using your foot in the strap. Fill with whatever you think will cause the most annoyance, however I wouldn't recommend frozen sausages.

These are excellent. https://www.amazon.com/300-Yard-Balloon-Slingshot-Cannon-Launcher/dp/B00AL57GEW

@thebibbles - i'm annoyed with everyone on the train for not helping but i've let it go now.

But thank you though!

🙂

Haha, that reply was meant to be in the house party thread but could also works for this one. You might get noticed at the train station though.

Well done on actually helping out and responding.

+1 on the bystander effect / nervousness not helping. Part of this is also the British culture it seems as well.

I don't think anyone has mentioned COVID yet. possibly another factor causing people to hold back from close contact with someone who has just collapsed. I'm not proud to admit it would probably cross my mind too.

Reminds me of a story I heard when I was a police officer. Two off-duty officers were in a supermarket when an elderly gent collapsed in the bread aisle. They quickly set-to delivering CPR until the paramedics arrived. While they were pumping away on the guy’s chest, a middle-aged woman walked up to where they were, looked at them for a bit, then looked at the shelf behind them and said ‘can you pass me a Hovis 50-50?’

I don’t think anyone has mentioned COVID yet. possibly another factor causing people to hold back from close contact with someone who has just collapsed. I’m not proud to admit it would probably cross my mind too.

Actually thats a good point, it never crossed my mind, not through any form of bravery, it just didn't cross my mind.

I have spent the last 6 months trying to igore it though 🙂

probably covered above, I've been in both camps, helped someone who had collapsed at York station a few years back, but equally if there are a few people on hand already what can you add?

All of the above really. Probably some people are so callous they just don't care but I suspect they are genuinely in the minority. Everyone else just falls into one or more, or a combination of the reasons people mention above.

So, the OP is the bad guy??

Probly for virtue signaling or something. Bloody do-gooder

BRIAN: Who cured you?

EX-LEPER: Jesus did, sir. I was hopping along, minding my own business. All of a sudden, up he comes. Cures me. One minute I'm a leper with a trade, next minute my livelihood's gone. Not so much as a by your leave. 'You're cured mate.' Bloody do-gooder.

Reminds me of a story I heard when I was a police officer. Two off-duty officers were in a supermarket when an elderly gent collapsed in the bread aisle. They quickly set-to delivering CPR until the paramedics arrived. While they were pumping away on the guy’s chest, a middle-aged woman walked up to where they were, looked at them for a bit, then looked at the shelf behind them and said ‘can you pass me a Hovis 50-50?’

I did some shelf stacking in Sainsbury's as a teenager and once had to deal with a very irate woman who was livid that she couldn't get any milk.

The reason for this lack of access to the milk was a small child who'd run smack into a trolley and collapsed right in front of the milk pallets and was being attended to by an ambulance crew.

The mother was crying her eyes out. The kid was on the floor with blood around his head. Two paramedics had a load of kit spread around. And she wanted 2 pints of semi-skimmed. 😳

It's apparently quite common on the roads too, police often report a complete lack of understanding from motorists when a road has been closed to allow them to scrape up dead & injured.

I understand the OP's frustration, but everyone on the train who had their "if nobody else steps in I'll have to" trigger set 0.1s longer than his got a get out of jail card the moment he moved first - and he admits that this would usually be his thing:

It got to a point where me as a relucant by-stander felt if i didn’t go actually no-one would.

Not even quiet concern but hanging back, which is my normal M.O.

So it seems that it is lack of interest rather than help that's was the really worry? In which case we come to:

By doing what, all standing around her and staring at the people who are already helping her?

Well if they were under 30 they'd have been filming it for their Insta. I think you shouldn't assume no response = no concern (even if that concern is only - it's this train going to be delayed!)

So well done for stepping in. You've done some first aid training, even if it hasn't stuck, I'm sure you can see why people with no training might have their jump to assistance setting a fraction slower than yours. Personally, if I'm lying on the floor, or kneeling over someone lying on the floor the "audience" keeping out the way is probably a good thing.

Part of this is also the British culture it seems as well.

I don't think bystander effect is a British thing? There may be cultures where it is much less of an issue but I think it is fairly widespread.

Reminds me of a story I heard when I was a police officer. Two off-duty officers were in a supermarket when an elderly gent collapsed in the bread aisle. They quickly set-to delivering CPR until the paramedics arrived. While they were pumping away on the guy’s chest, a middle-aged woman walked up to where they were, looked at them for a bit, then looked at the shelf behind them and said ‘can you pass me a Hovis 50-50?’

That's disgraceful. Hovis 50-50? She'd be better off with a nice tiger loaf.