What would a british revolution look like?

How far off this are we?

Miles. I could see some moderate civil unrest, like we saw in then environs of London, Manchester and some other cities a few years ago, but full on revolution. Nah, not seeing it.

what comes immediately after?

Mass burning of toasters and kettles?

Lots of unhappy folks queuing patiently waiting to moan 🤷‍♂️ Is the worst it will get

Think you're confusing movie plots for reality, can't really think of any revolutions that have benefitted the people in the long run, they're usually just another group of people who want power, and use the public as cannon fodder to get it.

Further we'll see is civil unrest, as stated above, probably in bigger cities, and end with the usual pathetic show of looting and burning down folks businesses and property.

Didn't work too badly for the French.

Miles. I could see some moderate civil unrest, like we saw in then environs of London, Manchester and some other cities a few years ago, but full on revolution. Nah, not seeing it.

This +1

We're halfway between general elections, what exactly would be your demands, another election?

Are you Donald Trump?

It might be just my circle of friends... but a British Revolution mostly looks like quietly relocating to another country. The alternative is just to accept the slow downward slide, like the rest of us, while quietly seething. Or, far, worse... blame immigrants, benefit claimants, the old, the young...

How far off this are we?

Miles.

+1

Plenty of regions in the UK have high levels of poverty already and they don't riot - they just suffer.

It's just in our collective nature.

There will be lots of tutting and eye rolling right up until the point where the last straw breaks the camels back and that internet petition is signed

Unfortunately Oswald Farage would be leading it .

I do feel that we could be heading for a repeat of the the Poll Tax riots if the Government doesn't come up with a plan to deal with the cost of living pretty damn sharpish.

What would a british revolution look like?

Just like the first line of your post! Loads of Insta memes and much grumbling on Facebook.

People can't be arsed to move of their sofas now so unless Deliveroo do a special 2 for 1 offer on 'Civil Unrest Direct to your Street +FREE! Molotov Cocktails' nothing will happen.

What Binners said. Maybe with an added fist shake and some mild expletives.

it would take a lot to rile up the british public to march on Parliament and raise it to the ground.

Bloody hell, are the houses of Parliament in the basement?

I see a lot of civil unrest and rioting ahead, but I reckon revolution needs a charismatic leader for people to coalesce around and I am not seeing anyone yet prepared to stick their head above the parapet. Who knows though. I feel that all the planets are aligning to something big (and d probably very unpleasant) in the near future.

There won't be a revolution

Look at some of the countries where things are really rough. It takes a lot more than this to push people to an actual revolution.

'but I reckon revolution needs a charismatic leader for people to coalesce around'

My time has come! stand with me comrades!

lets run, errr ride on parliament using bicycles.

Leaving the EU and then shipping refugees to Rwanda*

Optional tossing of virtual sausage rolls in the general direction of France**

*Box-ticking exercise
**Via a tabloid/social-media app to raise funds for fighting ‘woke’.

People can’t be arsed to move of their sofas now

On the other side of the street, people are working multiple jobs and their kids are sleeping on the sofa. Many people are far too stretched to get involved with protesting of any kind. And they are law abiding... at a time when the law is increasingly being turned against protesting.

revolution is more likely when one of the following 4 needs is not met for a prolonged period of time. Housing, Clothing, food & water and Security.

How far off this are we?

Not even anywhere close. Miles off.

Bloody hell, are the houses of Parliament in the basement?

🤣🤣

[IMG] [/IMG]

Remember a few years ago when people thought Russell Brand was going to lead a revolution? Ahh, simpler times.

Nothing will happen. People will whinge and moan and accept everything that comes their way.

A collective punch in the face to show them in charge, which was brexit. So it's already happened

*raze

I've always thought how could you raise something down. I guess I've never actually seen it written down. Anyway thanks for educating me though instead of just condescendingly taking the piss. 😋👏

So say we do march on Parliament and murder the monarch or some such, what comes immediately after? Serious question. Or any thoughts on the subject?

A revolution in the old fashioned sense is neither likely or desirable, but a revolution in how we think collectively is entirely possible. The root problem we have in the UK is that we are too individualist, and too envious. We only seem to care about ourselves and our direct peer group, and we get angry when we see others getting something 'for free', even if it is deserved or needed. Yet despite that we are often capable of enormous generosity, as this forum often demonstrates. If we can break free from the negative and destructive mindset that is imprinted on us by the media and our political leaders then we'll all be better off.

As to how to achieve that, well for a start we need to get rid of the tories. I don't just mean remove them from govt, but totally wipe them out like happened in '97. Secondly we need a labour party which is prepared to stand up to the media, political and financial establishment and bring in policies which redistributes wealth and rebuilds collective action and ownership. Then we need to strengthen non-govt organisations such as unions, cooperatives, community groups etc and give them real power. Do that and people will see that thinking collectively and cooperatively is much better than our current dystopian beggar-thy-neighbour approach to life. That doesn't seem very difficult or unachievable to me, but it's going to require a lot more than the labour party is currently offering.

but it’s going to require a lot more than the labour party is currently offering.

They have to get elected first, which is something they haven't seen very interested in for decades...

Great post Dazh. 👏🏼

Historically the LP's role has been to quell revolutionary fervour but I can't imagine anyone seriously thinking that Sir K will do anything but kowtow so leaders will have to come from elsewhere. I think a key factor is inspiring the young to act, they've been absolutely done over by university fees and loans, landlords, low pay and now energy costs. Britain does have a proud tradition of protest and revolt but people like to play it down with reference to couch potatoes etc. I expressed my solidarity with a postie this morning and he gave a clenched fist, first time in my many years that that happened.

They have to get elected first, which is something they haven’t seen very interested in for decades…

Chicken and egg. You won't get elected if you don't offer a real alternative. All the labour party offer at the moment is 'we're not called the conservative party'.

Chicken and egg. You won’t get elected if you don’t offer a real alternative.

Didn't work out very well for Corbyn...

Anyway, we digress - there are plenty of Labour party threads already.

I've just ordered a pitch fork and burning torch from Amazon.

It might be just my circle of friends… but a British Revolution mostly looks like quietly relocating to another country.

I've had a lot of friends seriously asking about options and such for getting into Scandinavia, or art least a check list of "how to leave the country", unfortunately it's a LOT harder than it was when i moved.

Another brexit bonus.

Remember a few years ago when people thought Russell Brand was going to lead a revolution? Ahh, simpler times.

Russell Brand couldn't lead a conga line.

Russell Grant would probably be more effective *checks to see if Russell Grant is dead*

I’ve just ordered a pitch fork and burning torch from Amazon.

I was going to, but I can't afford the fuel to light it.

Didn’t work out very well for Corbyn…

I think it would be different if he were the candidate in an election held in say, March.

Another brexit bonus.

The other thing we have to do is stop harping on about bloody brexit. The UK was f**** long before 2016. EU membership might have taken off some of the rough edges and presented the illusion that we lived in a civilised society, but that's only because we weren't looking properly.

Problem is that the worst off probably voted for these idiots and are too proud to admit they were wrong.

Been there, done that. Executed the King, decided the new ruler was worse, brought the King's son back to be the new king.
Not going through that again.
.
.
Why is it referred to as the English Civil war? He was King of United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland and there was fighting all over the realm?

Haven't we had one?

Wasn't there a vote on a stupid idea that went against everyone's expectations by a landslide of 2%?

Now six years later the toffs lynch their own leader every 24 months (but somehow remain in power), cheese and sausages can't move across borders and punching down on the poor is the new national sport...

I was going to, but I can’t afford the fuel to light it.

I've got a few solar powered LED ones in the garden. Will that have the same effect?

Problem is that the worst off probably voted for these idiots and are too proud to admit they were wrong.

No the worst off just didn't vote, largely because they correctly concluded that no political party was interested in pulling them out of poverty. See my comment above about not caring about and engaging with those outside of our peer groups. That's exactly what you're doing with this post.

The other thing we have to do is stop harping on about bloody brexit.

We need to stop asking people to ignore the utter ****up that is Brexit just because it's not the only self imposed restraint on this being a better country for those that live here. Brexit is strangling small and medium sized businesses up and down the UK. And that is hitting people. Yes, much of what is wrong here predates Brexit... but the fact that Brexit makes everything worse AND has been sold as a positive revolution of sorts is a major problem. People voted for Brexit and it's given them what? **** all. So, now how do you motivate these people to vote in their own interests in future? The failure of Brexit to deliver anything of substance to people will just turn them away from the political system... and that includes protest and active involvement, not just voting.

Other than some chavs looting JD sports, what do you expect to actually happen? Go on a march?

Cast your mind back a couple of decades to around the millennium. Around a million folk marched to stop the war in Iraq / Afghanistan.

Obviously that had a massive impact on the course of events...

I would think the most "revolutionary" we would get is something akin to the poll tax riots - which I think is overdue. The Tories have had a relatively quiet life because a huge portion of the masses are doing OK. With rising inflation, fuel costs, etc. I would think the time is approaching for a little civil unrest.

Not going through that again.

They did have another revolution in 1688.

I think it's called the English civil war because it was caused by events in England and the United Kingdom didn't come into being until 1707 I think.

So, now how do you motivate these people to vote in their own interests in future?

Well for a start you don't pretend that being in the EU solves all these problems. Without wanting to turn this into another brexit thread, all the 'what has brexit ever done for us' narrative achieves is entrenching the social and political divisions which caused it. The only people who benefit from that are those who foisted brexit upon us.

A revolution in the old fashioned sense is neither likely or desirable, but a revolution in how we think collectively is entirely possible.

I think dazh is right. We had such a revolution after the war leading to a radical reform of how the country was run. This happened because of what people went through during the war.

People have been apathetic since Thatcher because things have trundled on, people have been mostly getting by and living standards have been ok. But this winter that could all change, and that will be our revolution. There could be enough protests and enough dissatisfaction to remove legitimacy from the government. This happens because MPs stop supporting their own govt because they know their constituents hate them and they depend on

I would think the most “revolutionary” we would get is something akin to the poll tax riots – which I think is overdue. The Tories have had a relatively quiet life because a huge portion of the masses are doing OK. With rising inflation, fuel costs, etc. I would think the time is approaching for a little civil unrest.

Agree with this. The upper middle class will be unaffected. The lower middle class might have to cancel their holiday, but that's hardly revolution territory. Most of the working classes will be too busy trying to feed their kids to take to the streets, and they're used to putting up with shit anyway.

Would be nice if, at the very least, it could be something along the lines of the Icelandic revolution following the 2008 financial crash. Maybe then we would get a decent constitution out of it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Icelandic_financial_crisis_protests

Well for a start you don’t pretend that being in the EU solves all these problems.

No one ever has!!

But leaving it has given us new UK specific problems to solve, on top of all our existing ones, and the additional new ones that all countries in our part of the world are facing. Those Brexit related problems still need fixing. Ask anyone trying to get anything done. We're at the back of the queue for materials and supplies due to the hassle dealing with us, and when we can get what we need, a low value pound makes everything expensive. Talk to anyone in housebuilding. On top of that, being cut off from international customers is hitting everyone (don't say "we're not cut off"... go to the M20, or try and sort out a non-UK customer with a replacement part). The problems of Brexit need fixing, along with everything else, and they are pressing problems if we are to have a recovery from this upcoming economic smash that includes small businesses and their workers. Otherwise the future is working for Amazon, and little more, for the UK worker.

But my point was... Brexit was sold as the path to a brighter future, and people voted for it. They thought it would improve their lives. It hasn't. People will now view any "vote for change" promises far more sceptically for quite some time now. Getting people to change their mindset, and think more collectively, is going to be an uphill struggle. Any politican proposing it will be mistrusted.

I think it’s called the English civil war because it was caused by events in England and the United Kingdom didn’t come into being until 1707 I think.

True, it does predate the Act of Union, but he was king of all four countries.
And the Scots played quite a large part in starting it

I think the real trigger for a UK wide revolution will be when there's a milk shortage and the country can't get it's flat white lattes anymore. It'll be lead by Tarquin.

So who's going to reverse Brexit?

If Labour won't commit to doing so - and they won't even venture down that road - then we're stuck with where we are (bar some tinkering around the edges).

So we have to work with the shit we have.

No one can reverse it for the UK. But it leaves problems that must be resolved if we’re not going to accept being worse off with a further shift towards working for larger international companies with worse pay and conditions. We’re not rejoining the EU, but we still have to address the additional problems leaving it has caused. Including having a government that is serious about trade, investment and worker protections. But the “individual” mentality that Dazh points to means that it’ll be hard to persuade people to support collective thinking and working towards a better future for all.

I think the real trigger for a UK wide revolution will be when there’s a milk shortage and the country can’t get it’s flat white lattes anymore. It’ll be lead by Tarquin.

It's this type of gammony culture war nonsense that will make sure that no faction is strong enough.

Brexit was sold as the path to a brighter future, and people voted for it. They thought it would improve their lives. It hasn’t.

And they will quite rightly point out that it's only been a couple of years and that we need a lot longer before we can make a real judgement about it. It's a political and economic version of the climate vs weather debate.

I might be wrong here, but the impression I get when I see or hear (mostly) middle class liberal remainers moaning about 'brexit benefits' etc is that they are primarily concerned about what they have lost, rather than the wider economic and political impacts and how they affect those in deprived areas of the country.

If you're a working class brexit voter in Sunderland you would probably conclude that these people care as little about your lot as the tories or wider middle classes. Nothing will improve in this country until we start rebalancing wealth and power towards those at the bottom, and the continued obsession with brexit (on both sides) stands in the way of that.

All irrelevant tosh. We need to address the problems caused by Brexit. Paint it as getting on and delivering the benefits of Brexit if you want, but that work still needs to be done, or we accept being poorer. Ignoring it won't make it go away.

But the point still stands, people will be reluctant to back any revolution when they're still waiting for the last one they supported to deliver for them. No revolution is coming. Looking after you and your own during a time of economic decay will be the main theme of the next 5 years, I fear, sadly. Thinking and working collectively will be a very hard sell for politicians in the near future.

We had a revolution in 1979, it seems either that no one noticed, or it doesn't count as it was blue instead of red.

Pity really, if more people realised / cared just how profoundly the way we organise wealth and society in general had changed, we might not be where we are now.

If you’re a working class brexit voter in Sunderland you would probably conclude that these people care as little about your lot as the tories or wider middle classes. Nothing will improve in this country until we start rebalancing wealth and power towards those at the bottom, and the continued obsession with brexit (on both sides) stands in the way of that.

On that very point.

Those "at the bottom" as you put it, generally as a bloc voted for Brexit and in doing do took away my rights offered to me through being a European brit. On that basis they can quite frankly go **** themselves. I will never vote for a party that will look to reward them for doing that.  Never to be forgotten and Never to be forgiven.

Didn’t work too badly for the French.

Well, once they went through a military dictatorship and cost the lives of 6 million people after trying to take over Europe and a fair chunk more, then following that up with another round of Imperialism.

Never happen, unless dole money is stopped.

Oh, everyone's a benefit scrounger again are they? I haven't heard that one for a while.

Those “at the bottom” as you put it, generally as a bloc voted for Brexit and in doing do took away my rights offered to me through being a European brit. On that basis they can quite frankly go **** themselves. I will never vote for a party that will look to reward them for doing that. Never to be forgotten and Never to be forgiven.

Thanks for proving my point. 😕

Oh, everyone’s a benefit scrounger again are they? I haven’t heard that one for a while.

It's back, now they got rid of the forrins

There is a very simple way of changing things.

Join the Tory party.

There are roughly 160000 members. That equates on average to 246 in each constituency. Just 240 out of every 100000 (very roughly) voters get to influence policy, vote on the candidates for parliament and today choose the Prime Minister.

If you join, you get to dictate how the party is run, and who is elected. If enough people chose to select a moderate candidate with a social conscience rather than a right wing head banger then the balance changes within the Conservative Parliamentary Party.

In Scotland you can join for a quid. In England it's £25. It's cheaper than driving to a riot!

Thinking and working collectively will be a very hard sell for politicians in the near future.

They can't even manage that within their own parties, never mind working collectively with other political parties.

They sell division from the top and it trickles down.

Never happen, unless dole money is stopped.

Good attempt 🎣

There is a very simple way of changing things.

Join the Tory party.

After all, it's exactly what Banks / Leave.EU did.

The other thing we have to do is stop harping on about bloody brexit.

Shan't.

All other things aside - and there are many of them, but this isn't the place - pretending that it doesn't exist and hoping it'll just go away if we stop talking about it is not constructive. Sorry.

No chance of a revolution but definitely a lot more civil unrest as well as strikes this winter, with the government increasingly blaming both of those things for the mess they've gotten the country into. I can't see the government falling though, best we can hope for is the Tories get annihilated in 2024 but even then if Starmer's still Labour leader I'm not sure anything fundamental is going to change.

Too much reform is need (political, financial, media, energy, judicial, health etc.) and those that already have power have a vested interest in the status quo continuing so nothing meaningful is going to be allowed to happen.

Further we’ll see is civil unrest, as stated above, probably in bigger cities, and end with the usual pathetic show of looting and burning down folks businesses and property.

Except they’ll all be sat round their newly acquired 65 inch tv’s but won’t be able to afford to switch them on

If you join, you get to dictate how the party is run, and who is elected. If enough people chose to select a moderate candidate with a social conscience rather than a right wing head banger then the balance changes within the Conservative Parliamentary Party.

You can't though, because it's not a free vote from all the candidates, members have a choice of two pretty fundamentalist right wingers. I even saw an article in the Manchester Guardian saying a lot of members didn't care for either Truss or Sunak, After that opinion was mixed between knocked out candidate or getting that **** Johnson back.

The other thing we have to do is stop harping on about bloody brexit. The UK was f**** long before 2016

I'm pretty sure I can notice the difference tbh, mostly centred around the cost of living crisis

The other thing we have to do is stop harping on about bloody brexit. The UK was f**** long before 2016. EU membership might have taken off some of the rough edges and presented the illusion that we lived in a civilised society, but that’s only because we weren’t looking properly.

Why should anyone not continue to hold the politicians and voters to account for the worst piece of self harm we have ever inflicted upon ourselves as a nation?

It seems to me that many who want/believe brexit to be a Good Thing are currently sticking fingers in ears and singing lalalalalalala.

but a British Revolution mostly looks like quietly relocating to another country.

I'd be off like a shot if I could. Was watching Griff's trip round Canada and thought - that would do nicely. (No I don't thin Canada would be some sort of utopia but...). Mrs Fazzini, however, then explained that she is now to old to be accepted into Canada. Double win I proclaimed and thereby spent the rest of the night watching TV alone.

I think the tipping point could be when there are no fish and chip shops any more because none of them could afford the electricity to stay open.

Our nearest one says they've got a month left unless anything changes. I'm off to get enough chipboard to cover the windows.

. I give in. Tried to post that manc street scene

It won't take many people not being able to afford a treat or something to which they are accustomed to really start to annoy people.