I would think the most "revolutionary" we would get is something akin to the poll tax riots - which I think is overdue. The Tories have had a relatively quiet life because a huge portion of the masses are doing OK. With rising inflation, fuel costs, etc. I would think the time is approaching for a little civil unrest.
Not going through that again.
They did have another revolution in 1688.
I think it's called the English civil war because it was caused by events in England and the United Kingdom didn't come into being until 1707 I think.
So, now how do you motivate these people to vote in their own interests in future?
Well for a start you don't pretend that being in the EU solves all these problems. Without wanting to turn this into another brexit thread, all the 'what has brexit ever done for us' narrative achieves is entrenching the social and political divisions which caused it. The only people who benefit from that are those who foisted brexit upon us.
A revolution in the old fashioned sense is neither likely or desirable, but a revolution in how we think collectively is entirely possible.
I think dazh is right. We had such a revolution after the war leading to a radical reform of how the country was run. This happened because of what people went through during the war.
People have been apathetic since Thatcher because things have trundled on, people have been mostly getting by and living standards have been ok. But this winter that could all change, and that will be our revolution. There could be enough protests and enough dissatisfaction to remove legitimacy from the government. This happens because MPs stop supporting their own govt because they know their constituents hate them and they depend on
I would think the most “revolutionary” we would get is something akin to the poll tax riots – which I think is overdue. The Tories have had a relatively quiet life because a huge portion of the masses are doing OK. With rising inflation, fuel costs, etc. I would think the time is approaching for a little civil unrest.
Agree with this. The upper middle class will be unaffected. The lower middle class might have to cancel their holiday, but that's hardly revolution territory. Most of the working classes will be too busy trying to feed their kids to take to the streets, and they're used to putting up with shit anyway.
Would be nice if, at the very least, it could be something along the lines of the Icelandic revolution following the 2008 financial crash. Maybe then we would get a decent constitution out of it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Icelandic_financial_crisis_protests
Well for a start you don’t pretend that being in the EU solves all these problems.
No one ever has!!
But leaving it has given us new UK specific problems to solve, on top of all our existing ones, and the additional new ones that all countries in our part of the world are facing. Those Brexit related problems still need fixing. Ask anyone trying to get anything done. We're at the back of the queue for materials and supplies due to the hassle dealing with us, and when we can get what we need, a low value pound makes everything expensive. Talk to anyone in housebuilding. On top of that, being cut off from international customers is hitting everyone (don't say "we're not cut off"... go to the M20, or try and sort out a non-UK customer with a replacement part). The problems of Brexit need fixing, along with everything else, and they are pressing problems if we are to have a recovery from this upcoming economic smash that includes small businesses and their workers. Otherwise the future is working for Amazon, and little more, for the UK worker.
But my point was... Brexit was sold as the path to a brighter future, and people voted for it. They thought it would improve their lives. It hasn't. People will now view any "vote for change" promises far more sceptically for quite some time now. Getting people to change their mindset, and think more collectively, is going to be an uphill struggle. Any politican proposing it will be mistrusted.
I think it’s called the English civil war because it was caused by events in England and the United Kingdom didn’t come into being until 1707 I think.
True, it does predate the Act of Union, but he was king of all four countries.
And the Scots played quite a large part in starting it
I think the real trigger for a UK wide revolution will be when there's a milk shortage and the country can't get it's flat white lattes anymore. It'll be lead by Tarquin.
So who's going to reverse Brexit?
If Labour won't commit to doing so - and they won't even venture down that road - then we're stuck with where we are (bar some tinkering around the edges).
So we have to work with the shit we have.
No one can reverse it for the UK. But it leaves problems that must be resolved if we’re not going to accept being worse off with a further shift towards working for larger international companies with worse pay and conditions. We’re not rejoining the EU, but we still have to address the additional problems leaving it has caused. Including having a government that is serious about trade, investment and worker protections. But the “individual” mentality that Dazh points to means that it’ll be hard to persuade people to support collective thinking and working towards a better future for all.
I think the real trigger for a UK wide revolution will be when there’s a milk shortage and the country can’t get it’s flat white lattes anymore. It’ll be lead by Tarquin.
It's this type of gammony culture war nonsense that will make sure that no faction is strong enough.
Brexit was sold as the path to a brighter future, and people voted for it. They thought it would improve their lives. It hasn’t.
And they will quite rightly point out that it's only been a couple of years and that we need a lot longer before we can make a real judgement about it. It's a political and economic version of the climate vs weather debate.
I might be wrong here, but the impression I get when I see or hear (mostly) middle class liberal remainers moaning about 'brexit benefits' etc is that they are primarily concerned about what they have lost, rather than the wider economic and political impacts and how they affect those in deprived areas of the country.
If you're a working class brexit voter in Sunderland you would probably conclude that these people care as little about your lot as the tories or wider middle classes. Nothing will improve in this country until we start rebalancing wealth and power towards those at the bottom, and the continued obsession with brexit (on both sides) stands in the way of that.
All irrelevant tosh. We need to address the problems caused by Brexit. Paint it as getting on and delivering the benefits of Brexit if you want, but that work still needs to be done, or we accept being poorer. Ignoring it won't make it go away.
But the point still stands, people will be reluctant to back any revolution when they're still waiting for the last one they supported to deliver for them. No revolution is coming. Looking after you and your own during a time of economic decay will be the main theme of the next 5 years, I fear, sadly. Thinking and working collectively will be a very hard sell for politicians in the near future.
We had a revolution in 1979, it seems either that no one noticed, or it doesn't count as it was blue instead of red.
Pity really, if more people realised / cared just how profoundly the way we organise wealth and society in general had changed, we might not be where we are now.
If you’re a working class brexit voter in Sunderland you would probably conclude that these people care as little about your lot as the tories or wider middle classes. Nothing will improve in this country until we start rebalancing wealth and power towards those at the bottom, and the continued obsession with brexit (on both sides) stands in the way of that.
On that very point.
Those "at the bottom" as you put it, generally as a bloc voted for Brexit and in doing do took away my rights offered to me through being a European brit. On that basis they can quite frankly go **** themselves. I will never vote for a party that will look to reward them for doing that. Never to be forgotten and Never to be forgiven.
Didn’t work too badly for the French.
Well, once they went through a military dictatorship and cost the lives of 6 million people after trying to take over Europe and a fair chunk more, then following that up with another round of Imperialism.
Never happen, unless dole money is stopped.
Oh, everyone's a benefit scrounger again are they? I haven't heard that one for a while.
Those “at the bottom” as you put it, generally as a bloc voted for Brexit and in doing do took away my rights offered to me through being a European brit. On that basis they can quite frankly go **** themselves. I will never vote for a party that will look to reward them for doing that. Never to be forgotten and Never to be forgiven.
Thanks for proving my point. 😕
Oh, everyone’s a benefit scrounger again are they? I haven’t heard that one for a while.
It's back, now they got rid of the forrins
There is a very simple way of changing things.
Join the Tory party.
There are roughly 160000 members. That equates on average to 246 in each constituency. Just 240 out of every 100000 (very roughly) voters get to influence policy, vote on the candidates for parliament and today choose the Prime Minister.
If you join, you get to dictate how the party is run, and who is elected. If enough people chose to select a moderate candidate with a social conscience rather than a right wing head banger then the balance changes within the Conservative Parliamentary Party.
In Scotland you can join for a quid. In England it's £25. It's cheaper than driving to a riot!
Thinking and working collectively will be a very hard sell for politicians in the near future.
They can't even manage that within their own parties, never mind working collectively with other political parties.
They sell division from the top and it trickles down.
Never happen, unless dole money is stopped.
Good attempt 🎣
There is a very simple way of changing things.
Join the Tory party.
After all, it's exactly what Banks / Leave.EU did.
The other thing we have to do is stop harping on about bloody brexit.
Shan't.
All other things aside - and there are many of them, but this isn't the place - pretending that it doesn't exist and hoping it'll just go away if we stop talking about it is not constructive. Sorry.
No chance of a revolution but definitely a lot more civil unrest as well as strikes this winter, with the government increasingly blaming both of those things for the mess they've gotten the country into. I can't see the government falling though, best we can hope for is the Tories get annihilated in 2024 but even then if Starmer's still Labour leader I'm not sure anything fundamental is going to change.
Too much reform is need (political, financial, media, energy, judicial, health etc.) and those that already have power have a vested interest in the status quo continuing so nothing meaningful is going to be allowed to happen.
Further we’ll see is civil unrest, as stated above, probably in bigger cities, and end with the usual pathetic show of looting and burning down folks businesses and property.
Except they’ll all be sat round their newly acquired 65 inch tv’s but won’t be able to afford to switch them on
If you join, you get to dictate how the party is run, and who is elected. If enough people chose to select a moderate candidate with a social conscience rather than a right wing head banger then the balance changes within the Conservative Parliamentary Party.
You can't though, because it's not a free vote from all the candidates, members have a choice of two pretty fundamentalist right wingers. I even saw an article in the Manchester Guardian saying a lot of members didn't care for either Truss or Sunak, After that opinion was mixed between knocked out candidate or getting that **** Johnson back.
The other thing we have to do is stop harping on about bloody brexit. The UK was f**** long before 2016
I'm pretty sure I can notice the difference tbh, mostly centred around the cost of living crisis
The other thing we have to do is stop harping on about bloody brexit. The UK was f**** long before 2016. EU membership might have taken off some of the rough edges and presented the illusion that we lived in a civilised society, but that’s only because we weren’t looking properly.
Why should anyone not continue to hold the politicians and voters to account for the worst piece of self harm we have ever inflicted upon ourselves as a nation?
It seems to me that many who want/believe brexit to be a Good Thing are currently sticking fingers in ears and singing lalalalalalala.
but a British Revolution mostly looks like quietly relocating to another country.
I'd be off like a shot if I could. Was watching Griff's trip round Canada and thought - that would do nicely. (No I don't thin Canada would be some sort of utopia but...). Mrs Fazzini, however, then explained that she is now to old to be accepted into Canada. Double win I proclaimed and thereby spent the rest of the night watching TV alone.
I think the tipping point could be when there are no fish and chip shops any more because none of them could afford the electricity to stay open.
Our nearest one says they've got a month left unless anything changes. I'm off to get enough chipboard to cover the windows.
. I give in. Tried to post that manc street scene
It won't take many people not being able to afford a treat or something to which they are accustomed to really start to annoy people.
The other thing we have to do is stop harping on about bloody brexit.
Why?
Look to the treatment of the red clydesiders and the peterloo massacre to see what the states response would be. Massive deployment of the army to quell the slightest dissent.
It won’t take many people not being able to afford a treat or something to which they are accustomed to really start to annoy people.
Remember, this is a country containing people who rang 999 when their local KFC ran out of chicken.
"The other thing we have to do is stop harping on about bloody brexit.."
Not a chance. Every time the tories or anyone else tries to claim brexit is not a huge problem they need to be corrected loudly and clearly.
I will NEVER forgive them for the huge damaged caused and will NEVER shut up about it.
Look to the treatment of the red clydesiders and the peterloo massacre to see what the states response would be.
The Peterloo massacre was quite a long time ago...!!
Massive deployment of the army to quell the slightest dissent.
And the closure of the radical Manchester Observer which was replaced by the ruling-class friendly Manchester Guardian - whose mission was to neutralised radical anger. A founding aim which the Guardian newspaper maintains to this day.
I'm affraid us "Remoaners" are never going to stop harping on, it was a significant event it's fallout is still ongoing and looks like it's going to carry on damaging the country for a while yet.
But I will acknowledge there are other factors at play now, the current COL crisis triggered by events in Ukraine but also due to long standing underinvestment in our energy sector weakened unions and long term real term wage freezes.
We already had a growing gulf between rich and poor and worse yet the "working poor" trapped on poor pay/benefits with escalating living costs and no way to break the cycle let alone buy a home or build savings...
Being told by some bumbling old Etonian prick to buy a new kettle to save a tenner when being faced with the pointy end of a £3.5k energy bill must be utterly galling for huge swathes of the population, no matter what they voted for over the last decade or so.
The 'revolution' won't be particularly violent or scary though, by necessary increments certain aspects of our country and culture will have to change.
Massive deployment of the army to quell the slightest dissent.
I believe this is the traditional response when a government faces being overthrown, whether they are tyrants or democratically elected
It's due to rain this weekend so that's put pay to rioting in the streets...
Yea but look at the disproportionate police response to any demo in london. Illegal snatches and kettling and violence towards peaceful protest.
