[Closed] What to do... (Lying tenant content)

Get rid, there will be Shihtzu everywhere.

Cheers,
Tarquin Fin-tim-lin-bin-whin-bim-lim-bus-stop-F'tang-F'tang-Olé-Biscuitbarrel

Right, the plan.

Get quote for deep clean by contract cleaning company recommended by letting agent and to be agreed by tenant.
Tenant pays the full cost up front, no quibbles, over and above deposit, for house to be cleaned when she vacates.
Tenant has 28 days to rehouse the 2 extra dogs. If she doesn't, the rent will be increased by £40pcm.
I will be inspecting the property monthly and reserve the right to withdraw bla-de-blah-de-blah...

Does this sound reasonable given that she claims to have tried to rehouse 2 of the dogs (probably bull shih tzu) and the fact that she's lied through her teeth?

Al Murray.

The cleanup cost bit sounds OK, deposit is there as a backup in case the cleaning does not scrub the place up...

Not sure about the 28 days bit for re housing the dogs.

Edit, I let one once to a bloke who had dogs, I was just happy to get the rent having seen a neighbour get royaly turned over renting out twice in a row. I gave his deposit back & just binned the carpet & put new stuff in, was only a small place.

Tonto.

Not sure about the 28 days bit for re housing the dogs.

To be honest, I think I have every right to come down hard on her for lying and taking the piss... And it'll call her bluff if she thinks she can still lie to me.

Spartacus.

Sounds fair to me, it's the lieing bit that would have pissed me off to.....

and actually, I'm Spartacus, and so is my wife....

I would check that any adendum to the original tenancy agreement is both legal and enforceable.

Alf Tupper.

I'd get a quote for nuking from orbit, waiting 1000 years and rebuilding the house from scratch. Then ask for that as a deposit.

Hicks

I would check that any adendum to the original tenancy agreement is both legal and enforceable.

I will... When I spoke to her this morning she said that she was sorry for lying and realised she might have to move. I think she'll be quite receptive of a compromise agreement given that she knows she's already in breech of the tenancy agreement. I still think she's pissing down my back by saying that she's going to get rid of the 2 dogs, so putting a time limit on that and increasing the rent accordingly if she doesn't is pretty fair and covers me financially, as 3 dogs WILL cause additional wear and tear.

Flicker's Wife.

#Makes note never to have anything to do with OP and leaves thread#

There was an article on BBC about how hard it is to find somewhere to rent with pets...she's not going to want to get rid of her dogs so just come to some equitable arrangement where she pays for deep cleansing when she vacates.

1 dog or 3 dogs...the place will still smell of dogs.

Yours,

Princess Consuela Banana-Hammock

How well groomed/well-kept were the dogs? With dogs with hair (as opposed to fur) it's generally recommended that they're washed at least every two weeks, so they're normally a lot less 'doggy' smelling than most dogs (and normally shed less as well). If they're not regularly groomed they will smell awful. It's also worth noting that both Shih-Tzus and Yorkies are hypoallergenic due to having hair rather than fur.

Obviously the state of their grooming doesn't matter at all if they're badly trained/destructive.

I feel massively sorry for anybody with pets who's ended up in the private rental market, it's so hard to get anywhere. I can kind of understand why landlords do it though - they have no idea if a tenant's dog is going to be a well-groomed, polite pooch, or a perma-barking tornado of pooping destruction. Take pets out of the equation, and it's one less worry. On the other hand, landlords probably miss out on a lot of good tenants because of the rule.

I don't think bumping the rent is unreasonable, it's what a lot of holiday cottages do (first pet goes free, extra ones cost more). It would allow her to keep her pets, and allow Shibboleth to get a bit of extra cash to sort the place out if it turns out that the dogs are awful.

On the plus side, they're all tiny things, so their capacity for destruction is limited!

With respect Imabigkidnow I don't think you've got the balance right with your solution - it just smacks of trying to push your tenant around with little justification (whether or not you intended that).

As someone else said above, it's your house but someone else's home - within reason you can dictate rules providing they are reasonable but the tenant is simply required by law to return the property to you in a like for like condition (allowing for wear and tear) and clean to the standard that was documented in the check in.

What you seem to be minded to do is to use the non declaration of two dogs to force the tenant to cover up front costs you have yet to incur and which are not reasonable given the provisions for a clean / fully repaired house at the end of the tenancy.

The rent increase is further proof of a lack of reasonableness - aside from the fact that legally you can't vary the rent anyway until the annual review, what extra cost are you incurring in the interim that justifies another £500 a year on top of the additional charges you are levying?

The threat to raise the rent isn't that reasonable, since if she does get rid of them in 28 days, you're in the same position as the beginning of the tenancy but with £450 extra deposit. Equally, isn't that extra deposit to cover the fact she has 3 dogs?

If you have paid into the deposit protection scheme, I do take it you know its next to impossible to withhold money as disputes take ages? If you haven't (I know you said you have) you can be looking a 3 x the rent in a fine straightaway.

Also its starting to sound like you are trying extort your tenant, as you are increasing your demands the more reasonable she gets. So I would be very careful as they can stop paying and you are then screwed.

If it bothers you that much ask her to leave, but you can't actually force her to anytime soon without switching a civil breach of contract by her with a criminal act by you.

Also I hope you won't be claiming back the 10% for wear and tear, if you are expecting them to return the place exactly as it was before you rented it.

If you have paid into the deposit protection scheme, I do take it you know its next to impossible to withhold money as disputes take ages?

You can't withhold it as you don't have it, the deposit scheme does, but you can refuse to release it. We had to go to court to get to keep a tenants deposit after we'd evicted them and got a CCJ for unpaid rent. Right faff...

The rent increase is further proof of a lack of reasonableness

I'd perhaps take your points more seriously if you hadn't started calling silly names! But you're talking crap, Nobdixon. She's already in breach of the tenancy agreement by having pets, and she's reneged on our verbal agreement to allow one small dog and admitted lying!

The threat to increase the rent is only if she fails to do what she has promised to do in a timely fashion, but covers me on the off chance that she's lying to me again.

Chill man! Chill!

It's only 3 small dogs. Not some sort of zombie chav breeds.

What you can do is to agree on regular inspection of the house and to ensure the house is well look after. Simple. No need to be so anal in life.

What's all these nonsense about asking people to leave? You only ask them to leave if they are zombie chavs. In fact you shoot them for service to the society if they are zombie chavs.

Bad karma man ... bad karma ...

🙄

a woman with three small dogs is treble trouble-- does she feed them iams ? 😯

I've no idea what she feeds them on...

you need to find out-- cos if she treats them above humans you could have trouble ---dog/cat obssesed people are a bit sociopathic ...

I bet shes the type who has a terribly unkept minge too.

Forest Whittaker.

Of this I am almost certain.

Ray Mears.

It'd take a brave man.

Kate Bush.

This thread is useful without pictures.

David Bailey

I think you're well within your rights to insist on the cost of a deep clean after moving. I think that's more than fair. Likewise, if stuff is damaged beyond normal wear and tear she has to pay for it.

However, I think the £40pcm increase is abusive. It sounds more like a punishment than a rational response to a tenant who lied to you.

If you feel that strongly, evict her. Otherwise, take on board that it's A. really difficult to get a place when you have pets and B. It's not that big of a deal if all bases and costs are covered otherwise.

If she's an otherwise good tenant (and being educated at least hopefully rules her out of being part of the lunatic element), I'd suggest enjoying it while it lasts.

In place of three dogs, you could have some asshat that stops paying rent after 5 months, leaves the place a damaged tip, uses your property as base for all manner of fraudulent activity and who fights all the neighbours. Equally you could have a model tenant, but in my experience the former are far more common than the latter.

Have you thought about turning up in the middle of the night and kicking your own back doors in?

Roger Thornhill.

His own backdoors or hers?

Andy McNab

There"s always one.

The doors belong to our tattoo phobic protuberance, so technically they're his.

Melanie Daniels.

Sounds to me like you're now being unreasonable. She lied to you, yes, but in return you're being vindictive and the extra rent is certainly unreasonable. As above, you could have 3 students in there partying every weekend, getting red wine on the carpet, barfing on the walls and fixing oily bikes in the living room.

What you do have is a tenant who has paid 6 months in advance, seems to be being reasonable and is in a difficult place and you are abusing your position. You have a deposit off her, if there are any costs at the end you can take them out of that. That is why it exists. You should not be bullying someone who is probably feeling quite vulnerable and is having a rough time of it.

How many people's house have you been to with a dog and it's as filthy as you imply? I'm not a dog person but a lot of my family have them and some of my friends and unless the dog is in the room there is very rarely anything to suggest that there is one in the house.

Stop being an ass hat and get over it.

As a generalisation, people who rent may do so as they cannot afford to either buy a property near where they work, or may be coming out of the end of a relationship breakdown. Owning a pet adds a layer of difficulty to finding a suitable property. A deposit is paid, and the assumption that the tenant will look after the property. Regular checks by the owner or agent should inform how that tenant is maintaining the property. Of course, in the meantime the tenant kindly helps the owner pay off the mortgage of their 2nd, 3rd etc property. Deductions made from the deposit should be appropriate and not as some sort of penalty. I don't know, sometimes people just amaze me!

Agree bout lies,
We have a sausage dog an I'm sure it causes no wear and tear me the missus and two kids cause significant wear to our house though.
Better three sittle dogs than 3 other humans.do you have much carpet down stairs.

do you have much carpet down stairs.

I tend to have a quick strim every couple of weeks whilst shaving my legs, but I'm not quite sure why that's relevant...

I would just let her know that I expect her to keep it clean otherwise she will be billed when she moves out.

She paid upfront.

No complaints.

Have a heart and take a chance? Might work out well.

Is it furnished by you?

Is she fit? 🙂

Nobody has ever lied here...my main job is a porn star.

It's unfurnished, but carpeted throughout. She's butt ugly. If Little Shibby so much as twitched in her direction, I'd cut it off.

After sleeping on it, I'm going to insist on payment for deep clean up front, and say she has 28 days to rehouse the 2 extra dogs, and if she doesn't, I'll reserve the right to take further action on the basis of breach of contract.

I think that sounds suitably menacing yet fair and gives me ample backing-up room if i choose to let 'sleeping dogs lie'. When I say let sleeping dogs lie, I'm not referring to allowing the lying bitch to sleep... Just to be clear.

Are we all happy with that?

Ron Jeremy (me too!)

I'd be useless as a landlord, possessed as I am with empathy.

I have empathy in spades picton - I just choose to ignore it when necessary. And when someone has told down-right lies and taken advantage of my kindly, empathetic nature, I tend to withhold the empathy a little.
Plus, from a purely personal point of view, I'm not the sort of person that lets someone get one over on me!

Why not re-house her,any room under your bridge:)

Someone seems to have used my name in error above

I'm confused

Cheers

I am the walrus

taken advantage of my kindly, empathetic nature

You hide it well fella. All I see is an unpleasant vindictive person. And I don't see what the point of this thread is other than perhaps to show everyone how 'tough' you are.

I think he's being fair giving her time to rehouse the dogs and protecting his property/investment by cost of cleaning.

A shame about the ugly though. Next time put it on the contract - must be a hottie 😈

You did say no dogs though...

Fascist Landlord.

Jerzei Balowski

(you will need to be of a certain age to get that one)

Ernie, you've never been one of the more intelligent members of this forum, but I think if you read the whole thread, even you would be able to understand that the outcome has been very much swayed by suggestions from other people.

The main reason I posted was, despite being a landlord for many years, I've never rented property myself, so I wanted the opinions of people who rented, people who owned dogs, other landlords. Similar sort of thing to most of the threads on here, they canvass opinions and tap into the incredible shared knowledge of the forum's membership.

Posts like yours serve no purpose other than to try and cause trouble on an otherwise useful and lighthearted thread. So why not run along, there's a good silly little man.

Yes I think unpleasant and vindictive is probably a good description.

Posts like yours serve no purpose other than to try and cause trouble on an otherwise useful and lighthearted thread.

Thankfully you would never do such a thing now would you

Its funny [ tragedy obviously] reading folk objecting to their modus operandi.

Not quite sure why dogs are discriminated agianst more than say children. I've never had a dog that's writen on the walls!

I've never had kids who chew the table leg or roll in fox crap then lay on the carpet.

[i](you will need to be of a certain age to get that one) [/i]

*puts teeth in, smiles, wanders off muttering*

Old Man Steptoe

Yes I think unpleasant and vindictive is probably a good description.

Bitter and disdainful of anyone that seems to have achieved anything in life would probably be a good description of you Ernest. I suspect you're one of those perpetual under-achievers that lives his life feeling persecuted by people like landlords. 🙄

Coniston Old Man

[i]I've never had kids who chew the table leg or roll in fox crap then lay on the carpet.[/i]

You've never met my kids then! 😳

You hide it well fella. All I see is an unpleasant vindictive person. And I don't see what the point of this thread is other than perhaps to show everyone how 'tough' you are.

How do you manage to a angry over a thread like this, I read it as funny, light hearted banter?

Ask yourself honestly, do you have a sense of humour?

If I was a landlord I wouldn't allow pets. We've got two cats and they've absolutely trashed the hall / stair carpet in under a year, not to mention the sofas, cushions - in fact anything they can get their claws in....

How do you manage to a angry over a thread like this

Angry ? Why would I be angry ? 🙂

"I'm not referring to allowing the lying bitch to sleep"

Can't beat a bit of light hearted banter!

you need to feed her to the dogs or vice versa

...and film it ....

Angry ? Why would I be angry ?

I don't know, why don't you tell the audience...

Jeremy Kyle

... from a purely personal point of view, I'm not the sort of person that lets someone get one over on me!

This seems to be what's causing the most problem here.

You need to [b]win![/b]

It's very easy to sort out the [b]actual[/b] issue, a bit of extra deposit to sort out extra cleaning if needed. Job done.

All the other crap about 28 days and £40 extra a month, reserve the right to do whatever.

That's just you throwing your weight around.

Its Billy Balofski!

Rick Mayal.

That's just you throwing your weight around.

And I wholeheartedly reserve the right to do just that when someone lies through their teeth to try and trick me. 😉

Chuck Norris

That's just you throwing your weight around.
And I wholeheartedly reserve the right to do just that when someone lies through their teeth to try and trick me.

Just sort out the [b]actual issue[/b] like an adult, and move on.

No need to be a bellend about it.

ts funny [ tragedy obviously] reading folk objecting to their modus operandi.

That's a strawman 😉

Wow a couple of angry insultive pre-teens on here.

Peter O'Toole.

After sleeping on it, I'm going to insist on payment for deep clean up front, and say she has 28 days to rehouse the 2 extra dogs, and if she doesn't, I'll reserve the right to take further action on the basis of breach of contract.

You have no legal powers to do any of this, and if you do it anyway, you'll find yourself with a criminal record.

<mod>
I think that's about enough with the personal insults now. Play nicely, or don't play.
</mod>

To be fair Shibboleth, I can empathise with your initial post, but your subsequent posts just seem increasingly arsey. Are you responding to 'advice' from other posters, or are you just trying to prove your superiority? And accusing Ernie of being an 'underachiever' simply adds to your forum persona.
Also, regarding your repeated assertions that this woman is ugly, just how much of a hottie are you? Pictures or it didn't happen, and form an orderly queue chaps and chappeses.

I think the Dead Kennedys said it best

Is the OP related to this charmer?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_van_Hoogstraten

That's a strawman

* APPLAUDS*
[img] [/img]

You have no legal powers to do any of this, and if you do it anyway, you'll find yourself with a criminal record.

WTF?

He didn't say what action he'd take, lots of legitimate options available.

After sleeping on it, I'm going to insist on payment for deep clean up front, and say she has 28 days to rehouse the 2 extra dogs, and if she doesn't, I'll reserve the right to take further action on the basis of breach of contract.

Paying up front for cleaning is fair enough, getting rid of the dogs though is disproportionate and unlikely to happen. You have cleaning money, deposit and rights of inspection, why bother loosing a tenant over this?

At first i used to get offended that the forum could harbour such an arch and Dickensian character.. Until I came to realise that Shibboleth is just that.. A character, an alternative log in.. A figment of another forum member's sordid imagination

Gripper Stebson

Dig a basement.

Josef Fritzl

I think you are making a Labrador mountain out of Chihuahua poo 🙂

Paying up front for cleaning is fair enough, getting rid of the dogs though is disproportionate and unlikely to happen.

When she rang me and admitted to lying, she said she'd been trying to rehouse 2 of the dogs prior to moving in, but hadn't had any luck which is why she was forced to lie. So I asked her if she still intended to rehouse them, and she said she was.

So, either a) This is her intention in which case it's perfectly reasonable for me to put a time limit on this to avoid unnecessary wear/tear/damage to my property;
or b) She has no intention of getting rid of them, in which case she's still taking the piss out of me.

Yunki

I have read the entire thread, and i can see both sides of this coin.

Yes you were lied to, you are bound to be concerned over a repeat of this, and at the same time annoyed.

I think the up front cleaning is reasonable, but as others have said the extra £pcm and 28 days maybe a little much and i can see why you've (planned to) request that, i just think maybe you should reconsider.

I think you could be in a worse situation as others have said. Yes she has lied and this is by no means any justification for lying, but.. she has probably been a little desperate in finding somewhere that will house her. If she has come from a break up as someone suggested, then this will have added to an awful situation for her. She has dogs that dog owners will understand are as loved as family members, so she didn't know what else she could do. She may have lied because she was desperate, not because she was an impulsive liar who was trying to get one over on you. If this is nipped in the bud then chances are you'll have a good tenant. The fact that she has rung you to apologize and paid a 6 month up front deposit surely sends signals of what kind of person she is?

As you say though, you need to be sure of that rather than just instinct, i'm just suggesting another angle to view from that is all.

The OP's just trying to squeeze more money out of what sounds to be a decent tenant. He really doesn't care about the woman's feelings. He wants hard cash. He knows she will pay him extra money as long as she can keep the extra 2 dogs. End of. I won't swear or I'll get banned but you get the drift of how I feel about him.

How would she feel if she read this? Do you think that she may end up using your comments against you? This is, after all, a public forum. If outlining your intentions to increase her rent wasn't bad enough, your repeated assertions regarding her ugliness certainly are. I'd tread a bit more carefully, to be honest. Then again, this could be just another troll.

a decent tenant

A woman that deliberately and calculatedly lied to trick a landlord into renting her a property that was clearly advertised as not accepting pets?

I'm not sure how that constitutes decent. She's dishonest. The only reason she paid 6 months up front is because I insisted on the basis that she has no regular income. And, she's got a face like a melted wellie!

(for the record, I'm a strong 9 out of 10.)

Bradley Cooper

I really can't be bothered googling tenancy laws, but I'm fairly sure that your continued insistence on telling all and sundry on a public forum that you're going to increase her rent, coupled with repeated insults regarding her looks, could land you in it. You're her landlord, that's all. If you're so wound up, then cancel her tenancy - it seems that you have grounds to do so.

And, she's got a face like a melted wellie!

Irrelevant. And you wonder why you get some of the responses you do on here....

A woman that deliberately and calculatedly lied to trick a landlord

Shes a lady with 3 small dogs, shes not the joker..

Be realistic and you may find more people agree with your thought processes.

I said to myself I wouldnt get sucked in but...................... Yunki summed it up a while ago

Im pretty sure shib is trolling - he just enjoys winding up reasonable people

Shiboleth - it does seem like your just trying to wind up people who disagree with you now.

You've worked out what you want from the situation, have clearly got a lot of money up front from the woman and have a low opinion of both her honesty and appearance.

Is there really any more to be gained from posting on here?

Trisha

I really can't be bothered googling tenancy laws, but I'm fairly sure that your continued insistence on telling all and sundry on a public forum that you're going to increase her rent, coupled with repeated insults regarding her looks, could land you in it.

No, please Mitch, let's have a look at these laws that prevent me from discussing my options in public? Idiot.

Oprah