[Closed] What 4x4?

Cons for all will be fuel consumption. Some less bad than others

wouldnt buy any of whats listed tbh

pajero / shogun

or if not towing and its just to get places id get a jimny - although i wouldnt like to drive any great distance in it .....

and ill add that im a landy fan but free landers and 5 year old discos are not landys .... the disco lost it when the spare tire went under the rear

TBH fuel and tax (though I'm not aware of how much it is) is a given, I was wondering more about reliablity & being able to use them over distance (not often).

EDIT: T_R, why not? I understand freelander/disco's are [b]not[/b] proper landy's but I've spent enough time in landy's to know I'd prefer the comfort you got from them! 😉

modern decent 4x4(not faux by faux like the freelander an the CRV will be about 400 quid p/a to tax

Light commercial(pick up , l200/hilux etc) is 200 odd

what do you actually need it to do ? access to top of hills/moorland or to drive along a muddy track once in a while ?

the freelander was designed as a car with 4wd not as an out and out offroader. it does well for what it was designed but dont think youll get far off road.

the disco 1 and 2 are great vehicles but they have lost their way of late and lack in ground clearance and entry angle due to the stupid wheel under the rear.

Need? None, more a long established 'want', with a small proviso my village in in a dip and impossible to get of (or into) once it snows .. though the main road is 1/2 mile away and will always be clear (or cleared promptly).

This is currently just a pipe dream, but was wondering if there worth the effort of running.

Just taxed my '57 pate x-trail (2.0 Diesel, 173BHP) £245

for 6 or 12 months Jon? 😳

the freelander was designed as a car with 4wd not as an out and out offroader. it does well for what it was designed but dont think youll get far off road.

did pretty much everything the Disco4 would do on the test track but a LOT slower... not that bad at all but you gotta go steady in them. clever braking does not make a good 4x4 unfortunately.

look for a cheaper older 300tdi/td5 disco 2 or a pajero/shogun would be my choice

im eyeing up an l200 walkinshaw in the future but waiting for them to come on the used market ..... im looking for a towtruck for my offroader though (which was bought from a long established want since i was a kid....)

im justifying that to my self by moving house to let us go from running 2 cars down to 1.... and both of us riding to work again !

yup the disco 4 - that well known off road capible vehicle

but tbh for what he wants it will be fine.

just remember though - it may be 4wd it doesnt mean it will slow down any quicker - 4 x **** all is still **** all

I am aware of the limits of 2tonne vehicle trying to stop in snow/ice, it more about being able to get traction in the 1st place.

Snow tyres have served this winter but once it did snow, the g/f wasn't willing to drive out of the village even with better tyres (missed a good m8's 40th party & was every annoyed).

aye not trying to teach you to suck eggs but round here the ammount of X3/5s and ml300s i see in fields in winter on the back roads in my 2wd van is quite humouring.

where do you live that the snow got bad this year ?

last year i couldnt get within 3 miles of the house for 4 months - november to march ! - i learnt alot that year ! - as my light weight rear end van started pirouetting down a hill due to the camber of the road !

yup the disco 4 - that well known off road capible vehicle

Well, yes. Unless you're one of the "it's not a real off road vehicle unless it has a 4" lift and 35s"?

Straight out of the showroom it's far more capable than most people think. I have a Disco3 and with the addition of some AT2s it has performed incredibly well alongside some well prepared/lifted Disco2s and Defenders.

ah missed that one. 12 months.

if i was to go out and buy a stock vehicle tomorrow to take off roading.

itd be a jimny - ive watched them walk over chavved up defenders and discos.

driver skill over powers all. but light weight helps too 😉

my mates disco 2 sucks off road due to his thoughtful addition of a tow bar and a lift kit - hes not even got a towing licence but he didnt even get into the field last time 😀 - then when he got in his springs fell out cause he is an idiot !

I had a Nissan Terrano for 9 years from new.Fantastic.Not smooth or fast or economical but indestructible.

yup the disco 4 - that well known off road capible vehicle

You driven one then? Can't say I have, but I owned a D3 for a good while and used it extensively offroad and it would give a defender a run for its money any day of the week. On the road, well it would be ridiculous to suggest they were even vaguely comparable!!

Sure, jack a SWB defender up and stick knobbly tires on them and they'll go anywhere. But as a stock, "off the shelf" vehicle on road tyres they are no more capable than a stock D3/4, and a damn site less comfortable!! 🙄

[i]the freelander was designed as a car with 4wd not as an out and out offroader. it does well for what it was designed but dont think youll get far off road.[/i]

Maybe, but they do work ok - ours has been used often to tow horsebox trailers, which it will happily get off wet/mud paddocks and the like. Hill descent works well, and good in snow - if you can drive 🙂

My wife has a 56 TD4 auto, only problem has been two sets of injectors (which it seems the BMW engine is partial too) - advice is to keep off the supermarket diesel and ensure the fuel pumps are changed at 80k. You'll get 30-35mpg and unfortunately +£400 for tax as they were built pre the co2 limits...

And we saw a Disco 4 go up the rock steps that use to be on the Pennine Bridleway, with no fuss/noise whatsoever.

"SWB defender up and stick knobbly tires on them and they'll go anywhere"

if thats what you think ill let you continue to think that.

stock 90
Maximum Gradient 45º
Approach angle 47º
Departure angle 47º
Ramp break 147º
Traverse angle 35º
Minimum ground clearance (unladen) 323 (12.72)

disco 4

Approach Angle 36.2º
Ramp Break Over Angle 27.3º
Departure Angle 29.6º

Ground clearance Up to 310mm (air suspension

most folk modify their defenders for the worse with the clarkson effect lift kits and knobblys .... raise COG and give it a tendancy to fall over at will.

for what this fellas looking for a disco 4 will work fine but its gone firmly into the poor mans range rover sport these days. Makes a damn fine tow truck and on the road its unfaultable.

yup the disco 4 - that well known off road capible vehicle

was as good as a 110 that we tried that day too... but more comfortable and you don't hit your knuckles on the window when turning.

Slight hijack. JonBurns...what do you think of your X-Trail? It's on my shortlist at the moment. Probably looking at similar age (2007-2008). Cheers.

Panda 4x4, Audi allroad, Subaru legacy etc?

Disco 3

Can be cheap(ish) to buy, astonishing off-road, great on-road, buy a good one and you'll love it, buy a poor one and it'll be a nightmare. Thirsty, but you can average around 30 if you're not a lead-foot.

For proper off roading Lada Niva, but they are a bit crap on the road.
Aren't the Toyota Land Cruiser/Prado the dog's danglies in the 4X4 world?

sadly enough I had to buy a 4x4 just before Christmas as I couldn't get up the drive to my new house 😳 Lots of freelanders about, but that because they are unreliable.

I looked at lots of things and in the end I ended up with a Rav4, and to tell the truth its very very good, and can tow a LWB van loaded with 2 tons of sand up a muddy lane, so the 4x4 seems to be pretty good.

Plus it does around 32 mpg, which isn't bad.

If you go for a CRV don't go for the petrol - it's a guzzler. Great to drive on the road but it's not a off roader in the true sense of the word.

do not ever buy a landrover you ll spend the rest of your life stood beside the road waiting to be picked up..

if thats what you think ill let you continue to think that.

But have you actually driven a D4 then, or just gonna quote some figures from the manufacturers website?

Approach and departure angles are rarely of concern 95% of the time, traction and ground clearance are what usually get you stuck unless you're going to play at pay sites etc.

And comparing ramp over angles is hardly like for like for a vehicle which is about 2 feet longer and can seat 7.

As for D4 being a poor man's RR Sport - I think most D4 owners would tell you it's the other way around seeing as the Sport is just a Discovery in a mini-skirt 😆

do not ever buy a landrover you ll spend the rest of your life stood beside the road waiting to be picked up..

135k miles in mine would say otherwise. But I'm sure you're right.

Don't laugh but.....bought a Suzuki Grand Vitara a year back, has been cracking in the snow, ice, rutted tracks near my house. Can lock out the diff, never had to though. Miles cheaper than any equivalent. I'm happy!

Why all the talk about D4's? The OP is looking for a 5 yr old car.

If you go for a Disco 3 be prepared to get to know your local Land Rover dealer well. So well they'll probably give you your own parking space. IME.

I have had a freelander sport td4 for 6 years and it's never let me down, I bought a pathfinder last year to replace it and regretted it, luckily I had kept the freelander so sold the pathfinder and I will now keep it until it falls to bits, the pathfinder was shocking .
If you can put up with the date interior and remove the egr valve they are a good little 4x4 .£245 tax for
mine, loved the snow in 2010/2011.
Never got stuck in fields /tracks when I go fishing In some pretty remote areas

Subaru Forester.
Not for the pukka climb mt everest/wade the darian gap offroading, but perfectly capable ofmore than you think, including pulling "proper" 4wds out of the ditch in the snow.
Cheaper to run, and the most comfy seats you'll find anywhere.

Talking a practical[ish] (car type, not pickup) 4x4 for mild off-road use.

Currently have a Kia Sorento (yep zero street cred). However tows like a dream, good in snow and light mud. Cheap: 8k will get you 65k and 5-6yrs old with leather, AC etc. Downsides: no image, sh1te consumption - 30ish on 2.4 oil burner auto but then it is the lardy side of 2 tonnes, never going to compete with proper landrovers off road . Upsides: very stable towing 24 ft 1.5 tonne caravan at 60 past artics, very reliable and lots of kit for the money.

 

Why all the talk about D4's? The OP is looking for a 5 yr old car.

Wait, you want to keep the thread on topic? 😯 🙂

I'm on my second LR3 in 5 years and haven't been let down once.

Regarding other options, I would certainly have a Subaru Forester - very capable.

Last year I bought an Audi Allroad 2.7t tiptronic. Ace car, but the tiptronic was a disaster waiting to happen so I sold it. It was a 2001 model with 110k on it and still felt fresh. The interior had stood up very well. The car handled snowy conditions (Michigan winter) with little fuss and the extra ground clearance helped. The 2.7 biturbo engine is addictive and so long as you realize the turbos will need to be replaced at some point it's not a bad engine (chance for an upgrade, right?) They need a timing belt done in later life and it's a big job. A 4.2 manual transmission would probably be the least expensive long term. The air suspension is not as scary as internet experts will have you think. I replaced one of the air suspension struts in a day including beer breaks.

Isn't Pajero Spanish for w***er?

I think it's spot on unless you really use a 4x4 for off roadage

I've been very impressed with our freelander in the snow. Had a play in the pub car park when it was thick with snow and you had to really push it hard to make it let go. The TD4 is the only one worth having and you need to keep an eye on a few things (change the oil breather, check the VCU, fit matched tyres) but on the whole they are good.

As for the Disco bashing, I did a 4x4 course in one and it was brilliant. Pushed it way beyond what I was was comfotable with then the instructor gave as demo!

I've got an 08 Mitsi Outlander 2.2, it's fantastic. Get 40mpg if driven sensibly (that was with a full load, 2 bikes and a roof box on top too), £240 to tax per year. Has an additional 2 foldaway seats too, yet a low load bay despite this, lower than the toyota, honda, peugeot freelander versions - I checked for the dogs jumping in and out. Drives like a car, good vis all around, a bit noisier than the BMW 320d it replaced, but that's expected, 4x4 is very capable also. Absolutely no issues to date. It gets a bit of a slating for being expensive compared to the competition but the horrendous depreciation of Jap motors should see you right there.

HTH

2005 Petrol CRV owner here. Bought it back in Jan to replace a Freelander. Is nice enough to drive, solid, reliable so far, practical, comes with picnic-table. 25mpg mainly doing short runs, which is fine as I won't be doing many miles in it.

Can't get terribly enthusiastic about it though, has less character than the Freelander or the Shogun I also drive regularly. Despite the 4wd and raised ground clearance, not that great off-road either. If I cared more about cars or driving I'd swap it for something else!

I have a 2003 X-Trail Di (note not a DcI, which I wouldn't touch due to the unreliability of that engine). We've had it 3 1/2 years, or nearly 70K miles (now on 109K). It's great. Reliable, gives 37mpg, is comfortable and is more than capable of cruising at 85mph should you feel the need. The downsides - interior cloth stains very easliy (go for leather) and the ventilation is crap. It used to tow a large caravan with ease. All in all it's the best all-round vehicle I've ever owned, and I've had over 40...

If I was buying one today I would go for a 2.2di or a 2.5 petrol as these do about 33mpg so the benefit of the diesel is negated by the increased complexity of having a turbo etc. The 2 litre petrol is gutless and no more economical.

If you are just after a 4x4 for sometime off road and towing duties, do what I did and go the oldie route. My last 2 4x4s cost around £1500 each and I got four years hard labour out of the Shogun, and still got £600 for it from the scrappy when the chassis rusted too much for me to bother repairing it more.

Older Shoguns and Discoverys have a huge cheap new and used parts network. Low insurance and road tax. They are eaily DIY serviceable and repairable. Depreciation is non exixtant. Fit suitable tyres and you can go anywhere. Both have difflocks so towing off road or in snow is a doddle. One big service/repair bill on a newer model could easily exceed the purchase cost of a ten year old well looked after Disco? Shogun.

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I've not got a 4x4 at the moment, bit have run a Defender and 300Tdi disco as daily drivers for a fair bit of the last 12 years. If you want my advice -

[b]Defender[/b] - unstoppable off-road if you are decent driver who understands how it all works, expensive to buy, cheap to run, obvious drawbacks (interior comfort) which some can live with, others hate.
Buy one because it is the tough guys freelander, and nothing else will do.

[b]Disco[/b] - early variants now very cheap, however they are showing their age and can rot in awkward places (sills, battery tray) cheap to run, and a good comfy car for everyday use.
Later ones are supremely capable (its only the ground clearance and wide bodywork that catches them out) but can be expensive to fix (new Turbo on disco 3 requires subframe to be dropped out/ shell lifted)
Buy one if you want just about the most 4x4 at any price point.

[b]Landcruiser[/b] - older ones are great value, later ones expensive, all are generally awesome. build quality excellent, however some parts are expensive. Entry level is dearer than a Disco, but it'll probably last longer.
Buy one if you want to drive it to South Africa.. and back again.

[b]Shogun[/b] - cheap entry into large 4x4 ownership - thriving parts trade on ebay so fairly cheap to look after - do your research before buying a grey import as there are some differences. also a slim chance you might look like a low-rent pikey.
Buy one if you want a big, comfy Japanese 4x4 for cheap disco money.

[b]Nissan Patrol[/b] -another 'built for Africa' 4x4 - good secondhand value, but again some parts can be main dealer only and expensive - the LWB trucks are huge!
Buy one if you can't quite justify a Landcruiser

I'm hoping to get back into 4x4 ownership soon (its second on the shopping list after a loft extension!) but I think i'm going Hilux or older Landcruiser.

I've had an x-trail for 5 years now. It's an 02 2.2DI now on 150k. I've been pondering a replacement for a while now and all things considered, the only comparable car is the new model.

It can do 40mpg, pulls excellently on the motorway(fitted a much larger intercooler to mine)
Small on the outside, big on the inside
Exceptionally reliable, in 5 years and 70k it's had discs and pads, track rod ends, tyres, drop links and the intercooler sprung a leak. Still on the original clutch too.
very capable off road too, especially with grabbers.

Our's is the SE+ so has everything, leather is very durable, as is the rest of the

Have considered ab LPG converted ML, but it's not much bigger inside and much bigger outside, so decided on another X-Trail.

Only problem is the price, residuals on the X-Trail are excellent!

I have a Suzuki Grand Vitara, very pleased with it. A bit more agricultural than most 4 wheel drives out on the road at the moment. Good old fashioned locking doffs rather than all the elextronic 2 wheel drive then 4 wheel drive when it feels like it needs it.

We went for Diesel though, the running costs of a petrol were a bit silly. The torque in the diesel seems immense and it feels like you're leaving a crease in the motorway.

gratuitous piccy (not mine)

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How about a Hyundai Santa Fe? Car rather than ladder chassis, decent 2.2l diesel engine, option for 7 seats for grandparent duties, Latest version started on an 06 plate I think, so can be the right age for the OP.

Ours has coped with the last two winters' snow very easily, tires are inexpensive and seem to last ages. It's also pretty comfortable for long journeys. Unlike some of the bigger engined 4WD cars, the road tax is around £250 per year.

If I were buying right now, I'd get the same again.

Still pleased with my Forester. Not too 4x4, but fine on muddy roads, and snow.

On safari in Africa I noticed everyone in the parks drives Toyota Landcruisers. They seemed to get everywhere without a problem. River crossings, mud, big rocks no problem whatsoever. Very few Landy's around.

I've got a Forester too, more because of using a farm track regularly rather than needing something for offroad terrain. Good on fuel and comfy. Anymore seemed like overkill and I'm pleased with my choice. Subaru have a good reliability record too. Don't know much about the older ones but entry price of new models is comparable to a Freelander. Old ones look rather boxy things but are meant to last well.

X-Trail 2.2 D: 170k kms in 6 years, still runs great, seems that the intercooler/turbo on the earlier ones was a problem, this one was no different, but no problems since.

Downside? The abysmal turning circle.

Volvo xc70?

Another vote for the X-trail, I had an '06 2.2 Columbia, never went wrong, only had to replace pads and discs in 70K miles. Well equipped, switchable 4WD (which RAV4s and CRVs don't have), economical enough, fun.
I'd get a mkII 170BHP version tomorrow, if I could afford it.

Well cheers for all the replies, turned out to be a very interesting thread. Off-hand I think the Nissan (maybe the suzuki) sound like the best bet "for what I want". As I want the height of a proper 4x4 and reasonable but not excessive 4x4 capabilities.
Though I keep being drawn back to the look of the freelander, as the face lifted version are very good looking.

Cheers for all your comments, even if I've ignored them.. 😉

Recently bought a Defender 110 for use in the Alps. Currently stuck with pretty basic M+S tyres on it as I can't find proper snow tyres for it in stock anywhere.

It is astonishing going uphill in the most outrageous snow/ice conditions.

It is terrifying going downill in the same conditions.

That is all. 😈

I've got a Q7. £330 a tyre that lasts 10k a set, £512 road tax PA (or something like that), 23mpg and it seems to like chewing through headlight bulbs at a rate of knots. Oh, and its impossible to park, there's no room in the back for bikes because its a 7-seater and its not very quick.

I hate it, I wish I'd never bought it. Seriously, just by a 4wd A4 with some winter tyres on it. You don't need a soft-roader and you'll soon get sick of a Defender unless you do a lot of off-roading

I have an A6 quattro. Okay no ground clearance but has immense amounts of grip on road. 3.0tdi engine suitably mapped means it is a rocket sled and gets 43(ish)mpg on a mixed A/B/motorway journey. Drinks fuel round town mind. It was that or a Touareg when i went to buy but the VW had scary depreciation.

the freelander was designed as a car with 4wd not as an out and out offroader. it does well for what it was designed but dont think youll get far off road.

Ours gets us quite far. In fact, often, it gets us considerably further than surprised locals in their Toyotas and Nissans. It's astoundingly capable with care, and the fact it weighs more than a ton less than other 'full size' 4wds can save you an awful lot of bother. You'd have to be wanting to do some pretty serious rock crawling to really find it out. The only time I've missed low range in it yet has been when 4wd course owners insist on it because they think the pinnacle of AWDs is the X3 in terms of capablilty, and won't let us in because of this.

As for reliability - we've had it for a year now and it's as good as new.

I have one of these (Mitsubishi Delica), and it’s been relatively trouble free motoring for 7 years.

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7 seats, can be moved/folded to allow uses as a van, or dropped to form a bed for overnighters.

Not bad on VED if you buy pre 2000 and insurance is comparable with a big estate. Same running gear as a Pajero (Shogun) i.e. super select 4x4 2.8td so will pull a reasonable load. Surprisingly not bad road manners for a 2 tonne brick.

It won’t off road as well as a Shogun but isn’t far off with the added benefit of the bigger interior. Snow etc. piece of cake for this monster truck

My favourite part though is looking down into other 4x4s at the lights 😆

Downside that’s an easy one - fuel 22 - 25 mpg
Problem now is finding a good fresh low mileage import as the Russians snap the best ones up from Japan.

and the delicias love to fall over - but bar that they are an excellent vehicle and are surprisingly capible off road as long as you dont ask it to sideslope anything.

i looked at them long and hard the summer before last instead of a land rover but i do feel i made the right choice in the end for my needs and wants.

7 years and mine hasnt ever fallen over? 😆

But yes they are taller so have a higher COG and should be driven with that in mind.

I am sure there is youtube footage of them being put through their paces in an off road capacity but I will leave that up to the OP if they can be bothered looking

there is footage and its pretty impressive - i looked it up when i wanted to buy ....

tbh the same shite is spouted abotu the sj wanting to fall over - mostly by folk who watched the bolivia top gear but they only fell over if you drove them too fast as my mates dad found out - cornering at 60 is a dangerous game. they are an incredibly capible off roader.

Later model Landcruiser with the 3.0 D4D engine if I had to run one.

For Pedalhead,

So I bought our '57 x-trail 2nd hand as an ex Nissan company vehicle. Other options we looked into was a Mondeo estate (quite low though for slinging bikes in), Rav4 nice but not a massive boot and quite expensive (same for freelander), Vitara a touch agricultural but nice.

Why did we choose the x-trail? 37mpg avg, doesn't slouch if you need to boot it, inbuilt satnav/cd autochanger, reversing camera, comfortable, feels airy in the front, 80cm fully opening sunroof, aircon, tinted windows and doesn;t look too bad. The big plus is the size of the boot, with the rear seats up I've had 3 hardtail bikes and wheels in there. Dropping the rear seats leaves a totally flat loading space. A bike goes in fully built. A pitch and an ariel can both go in with just taking the front wheels off. It's all plastic so wipes clean (so I'me told) but I guess it could scratch (hence I use old sheets and a rubber mat).

Costs, £245 for a years tax, replaced discs & pads for £130 from camskill, yokohama tyres cost me £105 each a year or so ago, servicing isn't horrendous. Just getting insurance quotes and getting between £360 & £700

Problems, DPF issues which are common on a lot of cars, red light comes on...go for a drive on the motorway. Currently have a bit of a problem with the windscreen washer but I'm sure it's my fault as I think a leaf got in the tank.

It's a great car, I used to go shooting so it has been over fields and the like also snow, ice and it's all predictable driving with no surprises.

Would I change it......I'd like a Transporter like everyone else at Llandegla had on Sunday but in reality the cons would probably out weight the pros.

Autoexpress did a long term review which I read when I was making my mind up. http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carreviews/longtermtests/229161/nissan_xtrail.html