WTAF is going on in Wales at the moment?
Vaughn Gething has just quit as First Minister, having been in for only just under 4 months. He was pushed out by coordinated resignations of his colleagues...and his election was tainted by bitter infighting and taking donations from a dodgy "waste management" and demolition magnate.
Is this the same been-in-power-too-long-itis that cursed the Tories in Westminster and the SNP in Holyrood? Or can Welsh Labour rein this back in and remain in power in the Welsh Parliament for the long term?
THEGUARDIAN.COM I think they will retain power cos there is no other party with anywhere near enough support. But they'll have to be in coalition with PC and/or greens.
Personally I'm glad to see the back of Gething...the stench of corruption was too strong.
(And as an aside, governments need to stop doing business via Whatsapp, or they must be compelled to retain the conversations)
And as an aside, governments need to stop doing business via Whatsapp, or they must be compelled to retain the conversations.
+1 I even refuse to use it in our lowly business, seems so odd not to use email for official stuff.
The Tories had 14 years to close down this inefficient, expensive, Blairite socialist talking shop. Useless.
Feels like the straw that broke the camel's back this morning, with those resignations, at least he lasted longer than Liz Truss!
WTAF is going on in Wales at the moment?
Is this the same been-in-power-too-long-itis that cursed the Tories in Westminster and the SNP in Holyrood? Or can Welsh Labour rein this back in and remain in power in the Welsh Parliament for the long term?
The story has been rumbling along for ages.
I don't think so actually, more just that he's a particularly dodgy boyo.
Politicians who think the rules don't apply to them are infuriating eh?
He clearly felt he needed a bit of extra help to become the leader.
There will be Lab, Con, PC, Green, Libdem and Reform in the next Senedd. I would say an overall Lab majority is unlikely, but it will be them in power with some kind of deal involving at least PC.
seems so odd not to use email for official stuff
except for the lack of end to end encryption. Perhaps the biggest flaw with email.
it’s a tricky one. On the one hand, there are exchanges that you can imagine should be privileged and private. Much as private face to face conversations might be. And yet there should be potential for discovery and transparency of what really went on and what was really said.
Will the motion tabled for tomorrow go ahead now he has resigned?
There is plenty of legs in this yet if he can't produce evidence of Blythyn's supposed leaking of WhatsApp info leading to her sacking as a Minister.
On the one hand, there are exchanges that you can imagine should be privileged and private.
Records of those kinds of discussions are already non-disclosable under freedom of information laws...I think. But they should still be created and retained. Westminster, Cardiff and Holyrood have all seem politicians switch to WhatsApp and then delete messages so there are no records.
I don't think the Welsh Labour administration are anything like the Tories, even after all this time.
VG is just a smug, arrogant, nob who we're better off without.
The trouble is this is the kind of person that wants to get to the top.
When you resort to taking money off crooks who want planning consent in return to get the top job, you shouldn't be allowed to have it.
I think its a general dawning that devolution doesnt work across which ever state
I think its a general dawning that devolution doesnt work across which ever state
There has always been a minority in Wales supporting that view. I am not sure it is getting bigger - the explicitly anti-devolution party got 3.7% of the vote at the last Senedd elections, down from the 2016 elections. Reform, who will get seats in the next Senedd, have not mentioned it in their material, though you might expect them to oppose devolution. They do support making St David's day a national holiday.
"I think its a general dawning that devolution doesnt work across which ever state"
Support for independence is certainly up on 10 years ago, and especially amongst younger cohorts so I think it's fair to say that they think "devolution doesn't work".
Do you have some recent polling stats on support for independence?
The most-recent I can find are 2021 and put it as falling to under 30%.
Devolution does work. We need much much more of it. Leave Westminster to handle a a few major projects and let the regions handle everything else. More tax raising powers for the Senedd, more areas of responsibility. More money and power available to town and county councils. More involvement from people in decision-making. Less centralisation.
I think the issue was, that whilst Welsh politicians have long been seen as not particularly dynamic, they have been seen to at least be honest.
I think the idea that he might not be makes him seem too much like the Tory party and in Wales that wont wash.
Another £200 million of government money for the nationalised Cardiff Airport...to be spent on (among other things) paying the state-owned airline of a fossil fuel emirate to restart flights to Cardiff.
If anyone on here could give a really easy to understand explanation of the 'three Wales theory' I'd be mega appreciative.
There's a nice summary of Three-Wales theory here:
Basically that Wales can be divided into three distinct voting identities/areas:
Y Fro Gymraeg - Welsh-speaking areas, mostly west/north-west. Plaid Cymru supporting
Welsh Wales - English-speaking areas but with a strong Welsh identity. South Wales valleys. Labour-supporting
British Wales - Other English-speaking areas with more of a British/Welsh identity. Support tends to flip/vary
There's a map in that link to give a better idea.
No-one talking about the results?
BBC.CO.UK Yes, up on the BBC. So far it's mostly Reform 'heartlands' that have declared, and they generally are getting significantly lower vote share than polled, but it's only translating to a few dropped seats vs the poll prediction, thanks to the system.
Morgan is gone (both lost her seat and resigned as leader).
Plaid doing very well. Mrs g is involved with the local party in Caerdydd Ffynon Taf, and I have been helping with leafletting etc. 2 of the 6 seats was a realistic hope going into this, but the score ended up 3 1 1 1 (with Plaid getting the 3). Similar things happening elsewhere by the looks of things. No overall majority, but important (for those who don't support Reform) that they can't claim to bave "won".
that they can't claim to have "won"
Very close though. A big jump for them. Have to fear what the next step is for them after this in Wales.
We seem to be safe from Reform getting their hands on any sort of role in Govt but they have still done too well for my liking. Will it be just Plaid + Lab forming a govt? They probs won’t need Green and LD to help now.
All votes counted now… All plaid need is Labour to cooperate and we have a new govt.
A solid result for PC. Not convinced they even need a formal arrangement with Labour, or anyone.
I think Ap-Iorwerth will try to wing it without any formal arrangement, but the anti-majority is a bit big to make it work. Labour votes will be needed, thouhh it would have been nice in a way to be able to form a labour-free "new broom" government.
A solid result for PC. Not convinced they even need a formal arrangement with Labour, or anyone.
Maybe not… they will just need to work hard on each issue if they go with a a minority govt with a 6 vote gap.
I am so glad that Plaid won and truly shocked at how many seats Reform got.
A lot of people that would never have voted Tory have just voted for a load of ex-Tories!
I think Ap-Iorwerth will try to wing it without any formal arrangement, but the anti-majority is a bit big to make it work. Labour votes will be needed, thouhh it would have been nice in a way to be able to form a labour-free "new broom" government.
i bet labour refuse to work with them. thats what happened in Scotland...Sulking and obstruction.
There isn't the animosity between nationalists and Labour in Wales that there is in Scotland. There is a history of the two parties working together in the Senedd, and good relations on the ground as well.
A large part of this is that the issue of unionism vs independence is not an issue for any Welsh government as public opinion is so far off. It is not a question of Rhyn* kicking the can down the road, he would have to catch up with it first to be able to kick it. (That is effectively what his stock reply when asked about it is.)
Indeed behind the scenes Welsh Labour regarded the Westminster party as at least as big an obstacle on many issues as they did Plaid.
The problem is, the Labour Group is leaderless and will have to sort itself out a bit before it can act collectively. But I don't see them being unco-operative in the appointments of Llywydd (speaker) or their deputy and of Rhyn as first minister, which will be the first things on the agenda of the new Senedd.
*I don't kmow the guy though I have met him. As a result of the great welsh surname shortage, first names are used in Welsh politics - for practical reasons rather than because politicians like each other. It also helps with typing.
Just thinking about it. When you look at what has just happened. Plaid have a great job of saving us from Reform. It is very possible that nobody will be able to do that at the next UK elections.
ta greyspoke. i know very little of welsh politics. i can see Westminster telling welsh labour not to co operate.
scottish labour have clearly been told to toe the line in the past.
we can only wait and see but a great result for plaid
interesting noise coming out of wales that seems likr plaid and labour may cooperate and labour saying no to a deal with reform.
let's hope that unlike in Scotland they canbehave as adults
@tj yes, diplomatic words coming from Welsh Labour.
Co-operating with Reform would be electoral suicide for any party other than the Conservatives, and it might backfire on them.
But the numbers are such that Labour, the Greens and the Lib Dem can all abstain and Reform + Con will not be able to block anything, so Rhyn should get voted in as FM relatively easily. Then the more long term talking will happen, I suspect.
The fear is that Reform use their power to upset the hitherto co-operative and consensus minded approach in Cardiff Bay, which has been different from Westminster, Stormont or Holyrood. After all being "disruptors" is part of their schtick.
And they will have power by via committee memberships and being the opposition, giving them shouting time in the debating chamber. It would be a shame if they were able to drag everyone down to their level.
