Everyone is sick of that exclusive club in London
It's not exclusive at all. Any British national can get elected to it.
That right Ernie?
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jul/02/labour-party-selection-process-falkirk
A small selection for you of how the main parties choose candidates.
Red firebrand from the streets, full of a need to correct injustices? No chance.
That right Ernie?
Yes that's right. It isn't obligatory to vote for the Labour candidate.
Although overall it's 55% vs 45%, so far, only 4 out of 31 reported councils have voted yes. That's a pretty resounding slam of the door.
Trailrat, Utopia can be found in London, obviously !
I think now will be the time to judge Westminster on it's actions, if the promises aren't delivered I don't think it'll be too long before there's another referendum.
Hopefully the main outcome will be change for the better for all parts of the UK.
Yeah what's a generation in the grand scheme of things?
LOLing at the "this is just the start" comments. How naive. If anyone thinks that the govt will allow another referendum in our lifetimes they are going to be very disappointed.
How much did this whole thing cost the UK taxpayer?
Right then now we need to send in the troops, Dundee will be first to raise to the ground as they had the highest 'yes' vote then we can address that little pocket around Glasgow. Oh and mount Salmond to the front of the first tank... 😉
Seriously though it was pretty close and it worrying to think that the population of Scotland is so split. Hopefully we can do better and make them glad they voted no.
Lots of people looked at the ballot paper and [s]changed their mind[/s] voted how they'd intended all along.
❓
Whatever the story behind the numbers though, this -
Hopefully we can do better and make them glad they voted no.
cant believe there are so few people in scotland .... thats including all those 16 -17 voters too. More people watch strictly on a saturady evening!
[i]Seriously though it was pretty close and it worrying to think that the population of Scotland is so split. Hopefully we can do better and make them glad they voted no.[/i]
It was closer than I thought it would be, but with such Nationalistic fervour being engendered, the 'yes' voters were mostly the emotive ones. If we, (the English) were 10% of the pop and Edinburgh made all the decisions, we'd almost certainly feel the same. It's head over hearts and sometimes you have to swallow your pride to take the right route for all....which fortunately they did.
Let's hope no one messes with the formula
The architect of a controversial funding formula for Scotland has described his own policy as a "terrible mistake" after David Cameron pledged to keep it despite a revolt from Tory MPs.The leaders of all three main political parties have pledged to continue using the formula, which sees Scotland receive £1,623 per head more than the rest of the UK, if Scotland votes to stay in the Union.
If the unholy alliance of Dave, Gordon, Ed and Nick deliver on their hastily-sketched-on-the-back-of-a-fag-packet promises, then this could be the best possible outcome for everyone.
Thats a big if though!
Britain is the most centralised country in the developed world. Westminster has run Britain like a fiefdom, issuing dictats to 'the regions' like some imperial power. Its not just the Scots who've been on the receiving end of that, and who are heartily sick of it! I notice Daves speech made commitments to devolved power to the cities as well as Norn Ireland and Wales
Heres hoping that this is genuine democratic change, with real teeth, and not a window dressing exercise that just lumbers us all with another level of bureaucrats and politicians to pay for.
I'm not confident
[i]cant believe there are so few people in scotland .... thats including all those 16 -17 voters too. More people watch strictly on a saturady evening![/i]
there's probably another couple of mil living in England!
I think now will be the time to judge Westminster on it's actions, if the promises aren't delivered I don't think it'll be too long before there's another referendum.
Hopefully the main outcome will be change for the better for all parts of the UK.
Yes
Gotta say I have a new-found respect for Gordon Brown. Never liked him before but he put the Union ahead of personal ambitions.
[i]Hopefully we can do better and make them glad they voted no.[/i]
I'm not sure what more 'we' can do.
The problem is not that the Scottish need their own autonomous government it's just that the Westminster parliament makes *all* UK voters feel disengaged from the political process and powerless to affect the decisions made.
It's shouldn't be about the English trying to appease the Scots, it should be about all politicians (local and national) convincing citizens that voting
a) matters
and
b) makes a difference
The turnout last night shows that when people believe their opinion matters and that casting a vote will affect their lives they will become involved.
The Police Commissioner election fiasco with less than 10% turnout shows what happens when politicians fail to listen to what people want.
Interesting that Orkney and Shetland both voted 65% against. The wise islanders must have seen though Salmond's slimey trickery.... or maybe Braveheart wasn't shown in cinemas there.
Perhaps Orkney and Shetland thought if Scotland was independent there would be less defence against a viking invasion.
I think Salmond's greatest failing in this was not securing the midge vote. He would have had a landslide.
On a slightly more frivolous note;
Could they not do a more football style post match analysis.
"Salmond played a blinder but they don't have strength in depth on their defence and he was let down"
"Darling lacked the charisma of his opposite number but he plodded on and led his team to victory"
"The late substitution of Gordon Brown for Campbell, Cameron and Milliband was a brilliant tactical decision, he deserved his man of the match award"
I wonder what the vote looks like when broken down into age groups? Anyone know where that could be found?
I reckon the <25s and >60s will have been more pro-independence and the rest more pro-union.
LOLing at the "this is just the start" comments. How naive. If anyone thinks that the govt will allow another referendum in our lifetimes they are going to be very disappointed.
'Just the start' doesn't refer to Scottish Independence, it refers to UK constitutional reform.
Gotta say I have a new-found respect for Gordon Brown. Never liked him before but he put the Union ahead of personal ambitions.
I feel the opposite! I wish the **** had got his priorities sorted years ago, and put his efforts into delivering on the promised changes to the Blairite agenda, instead of just looking like a rabbit in the headlights once he got in the position he'd spent his life scheming to get into. Then going off in a massive sulk when the electorate delivered their verdict on his abject failure.
He's very good at gobbing off. His record on delivering on his bombastic rhetoric and stated intentions is absolutely woeful! Something worth bearing in mind.
just looking like a rabbit in the headlights once he got in the position he'd spent his life scheming to get into.
I don't think you appreciate how little power individuals have, and how much they have to fit into the party machine. It's the same for US presidents - they talk about change, but they end up having far less power than they'd like when they get in.
Bloody great turnout Scotland.
Thats got to be something to celebrate 😀
Molls - Read Damian McBrides memoirs of being with Gordon when he finally got into number 10. They're damning! Everyone was filled with optimism about a change in direction. Thinking that he must have done all that scheming, and bullying for a reason. Then realising there was no grand plan. No ideology. No agenda. Nothing!
He just wanted to be PM and thought it was just sooooooooo not fair that Tony got to be instead. That was it! The limit of his ambition was that he thought he had the right to be the biggest swinging dick. It was just petty playground stuff. Then look what happened? He staggered from one crisis to the next until he was booted out. Then he sulked!
He's a pathetic, tragic figure, so I wouldn't be expecting him to actually deliver much more now. All mouth and no trousers, who's political legacy is nearly bankrupting the country! Now we're expecting him to come riding to everyones rescue? Yeah, right....
No chance he could have learned from his experience, perhaps?
I see Dave is going with the same model of the US and A then rather than the USSR.
That's kinda my point Binners - he always came across like that but he seemed to put his head up above the parapet this time.
He's a stubborn egotist who believes he's always right. Since being booted out all he's done is have a massive sulk that would put Nicholas Anelka to shame
Does that seem like someone who's embarked on a voyage of self discovery, and critical self-analysis to you? He's always massively over-estimated his own abilities. And he'll fail now, like he's always failed. We'll all end up with some cobbled together nonsense that changes nothing
tbh i think the only person that came out of this morning looking good was salmond - and thats from someone who detests the man.
His speech after his defeat - if he manages to deliver on it could very well be his legacy.
binners I think you're being very harsh on GB. He inherited a poisoned chalice and was vilified in the media. Not sure I would trust Damien McBride's account either. I'd agree GB should have been more bold but he was doomed whatever happened.
And blaming him for the global economic meltdown is a classic piece of Tory spin.
trail_rat - I think thats been a constant theme through the whole campaign. I can't stand him either on a personal level, but you've got to have some respect for him, and what he's done. He's forced the complete re-negotiation of the British constitution. If there was one? which there isn't. so now there will be. Lets not underestimate that. We can all become citizens, instead of subjects
We all should be grateful to him for that!
Who remembers John Major's Citizens' Charter?
[i]He's a pathetic, tragic figure, so I wouldn't be expecting him to actually deliver much more now. All mouth and no trousers, who's political legacy is nearly bankrupting the country! [/i]
😀
Well, whatever he is, he got top marks for that speech the other day. Remember, this whole referendum thing was based on emotion, not facts, so he got it spot on.
And blaming him for the global economic meltdown is a classic piece of Tory spin.
I can't see that up there. You must have your red tinted glasses on.
He was at the helm when the wheels fell off the economy. GB didn't think it was serious; it would blow over.
He must have been looking at the figures with his bad eye.
grum - as chancellor GB was in awe of the city, gave them everything they wanted, and more, then issued toadying, cringe-worthy eulogies to them. While not giving a flying **** about manufacturing or any other area of the economy. So he carries a huge responsibility for what happened, and what he should have seen coming, as that was his job! And maybe he would have done if he wasn't so pathetically fawning to The City, and blinked about what they were [i]actually[/i] up to
And as PM he was an absolute disaster
So going back to my original point - I wouldn't rely on him to deliver. He's as much a part of the Westminster establishment as Cameron. And their interests will come before everyone else's, make no mistake
Binners has it smack on. GB was a dreadful chancellor and an even worse PM.
Secular Federated Republic with an elected second chamber and an elected President.
Yes please.
Let's go.
Is anyone suggesting that GB is coming back into mainstream politics then? 😯
I really had hoped we'd seen the last of him.
Well, whatever he is, he got top marks for that speech the other day. Remember, this whole referendum thing was based on emotion, not facts, so he got it spot on.
Which is what I was getting at. I never thought much of the man beforehand but I thought he came across very passionately and I am sure he won the No Vote a few votes with his involvement.
Arise Sir Alistair and Sir Gordon...
Binners - a bit of cynicism is a good thing, but your absolute trashing of everything to ever come out of anywhere political is wearing thin. You don't sound objective, you sound like a ranting loon.
It's just too easy to slag off Westminster as some kind of evil cabal, but it's just not true. It's incompetent more than anything else.
Are you saying Westminster are looking after their own interests? What might these be? How can 'Westminster' as a whole have any kind of common interest?
Gotta say I have a new-found respect for Gordon Brown. Never liked him before but he put [s]the Union[/s] Labour ahead of personal ambitions.
Don't forget that labour would be screwed without Scotland.
