MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
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This happened opposite work today...
[url= http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_midlands/7911823.stm ]stabbibing[/url]
Unfortunately he's going to have a hell of a difficult time going with self defence having brought out a knife. 'spose it will depend on how bad his "head injury" is.
Cant go round issuing summary justice, however, credit to the guy for standing up to them I guess.
he could say it was the dead guys knife 😉
This is the grim thing about "self defence". I was talking yesterday to a friend who had kept a briefcase that about 15 young people had decided was for them. Ideally you'd want a gatling gun on that sort of job....
😉
well done son
Killing someone for atempted theft (of property that is not even your own)?
Hopefully not, though no doubt the usual armchair pro-violence, summary justice "eye for an eye" types will be along to celebrate...
to be fair they were willing to harm him for stuff that wasnt theirs either
Really depends on the circumstances. If the supposed thieving toe rags pulled the knife. I am sorry they got what they deserved.
If on the other hand the lorry driver confronted them armed it does appear to be a bit OTT.
so a naughty-type can carry a sharpened screwdriver yet we the innocent public are armed with a 999 number to confront them with.
to be fair they were willing to harm him for stuff that wasnt theirs either
no, to be fair, it doesn't say that anywhere in the report linked.
however for all we know the driver was buttering a roll when they tried hauling him out of the cab, and confronted with three people, who might appear ready to do harm, you'd be well within your rights to strike first.
completely different matter if, on seeing the three trying to gain access to the back, the driver goes into his cabin and pulls a bowie knife out, then goes to tackle them. at that point he's getting into manslaughter or even murder.
so a naughty-type can carry a sharpened screwdriver yet we the innocent public are armed with a 999 number to confront them with.
no. nowhere is there provision for anyone to carry a sharpened screwdriver unless they wish to use it on screws and/or some other inanimate object which they have right to take it to. 🙄
to be fair they were willing to harm him for stuff that wasnt theirs either
You know this do you? They may have acted purely in self defence.
Have you just made an ass of u and me?
We do not know enough to make a reasonable judgment. But we can make an unreasonable one with the facts we have!
🙂
del i would have said the getting hauled out of the cab alone would be indication of them willing to do harm if that were the case
you make me chuckle cynical 😉
the way i look at it and it may be a simplistic view (i got taught it in the army so it probably is) . if someone is willing to rob or do harm to you and yours then they deserve all they get, and if some robber gets stabbed then hey ho . they should have thought about that before they left the house 😉
totally agree firestarter. ive got no sympathy for them at all,
if you play with feathers, you'll get your 4rse tickled
Its similar to the farmer that shot the guy he caught trying to rob him, the guy lived and the farmer got sent to prison.
The robber said he would have done exactly the same if it had been his house.
If someone is willing to step over a boundary then they have to accept the consequences, and if the consequence is the guy you try to rob is a bit of a headcase then, well tough.
Very little info to go on. Doesn't bode well for the driver, as weapons go a knife is pretty serious. You generally dont carry one unless your prepared to maim or kill - it's a pretty poor defensive weapon too.
The robber said he would have done exactly the same if it had been his house
what via a medium or do you personally converse with the dead?
The farmer shot and killed him by shoooting him in the back FFS hardly self defence.
if someone is willing to rob or do harm to you and yours then they deserve all they get, and if some robber gets stabbed then hey ho . they should have thought about that before they left the house
Sounds like you are not currently a defence laywer?
tony martin wasnt it the farmer , from what i remember the only thing he did wrong was be a poor shot he'd probably have served less time if he'd got the both of them properly
He shot the guy in the back as he was running away though did he not?
nope 😉
i seem to remember him getting one but not the other . i may be wrong tho
The case that I am taking about the guy lived, it was in perthshire, years back. If someone breaks into your house then they deserve whatever they get in my opinion,
Like those 3 guys that tried to rob Duncan Fergusons house once. You would have to be daft to try that.
Shiny the farmer "self-defence" story is a whole different issue. The robbers were running away when he shot them in the back, do you really I think you can claim self-defence? I'm saying I agree/disagree with that situation however that is clearly not self-defencea and a different kettle of fish.
The facts in that news story are so vague they give us NO information what so ever as to what has happened other than an "incident" where someone has ended up dead.
To complicate matters...had Martin not been robbed by the exact same gypsies 15 times or something? Did he not shoot one in the leg, the other fled and he shot him in the back?
firestarter - Member
i seem to remember him getting one but not the other . i may be wrong tho
well finally you got something correct.
he did shoot him in the back
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/tony-martin-the-harmless-eccentric-whose-obsession-made-him-a-killer-721200.html
wont work as a linky
red orange you cannot kill people because they break into your house it is just wrong. you can defend yourself and your property using appropriate force once the threat is over (they are floored or start to leave run away) any further action is criminal assault on your part. two wrongs do not make a right.
PS you would be mad to try and rob Big Dunc's house
GO Junkyard!
FWIW DM type trolls will generally not respond to rational argument (or probably understand it for that matter) so don't take it all too personally.
so what did i get incorrect then junkyard ? did i say the farmer did it in self defence anywhere ?
Junkyardred orange you cannot kill people because they break into your house it is just wrong. you can defend yourself and your property using appropriate force once the threat is over (they are floored or start to leave run away) any further action is criminal assault on your part. two wrongs do not make a right.
And you cannot know that people who break into your house don't mean to kill you. Why take the chance? Would you take the chance?
btw your link doesnt work smart arse 😉
oh yes and my reply of nope after gnargnars post was in reply to cynicals question . just to confuse matters even more
All i'm saying is that if someone crosses a boundary they have to accept whatever consequences occur.
I'm not saying its right to kill them, but thats a risk that they have to accept. Don't go robbing people that are a bit nuts and have easy access to guns!
What happened to the guys that tried to rob big Dunc? My uncle was in Barlinnie at the same time as him, said he was a nice enough guy, liked pigeons apparently.
re: tony martin. the court notes are on the net somewhere. He shot someone in the back as they were running away and i think the victim bled to death in his garden.
The majority of the time in court was spent trying to prove where he fired this shot from, and whether or not he could see what he was shooting at. He had removed the lower part of the staircase and the court decided he fired the shot from the upper part of the stairs where he could see the guy running away, hence he was sent to prison.
These cases are decided on the details
it does not but i blame STW as it is the correct link but hey will take the blame
Firestarter i dont know what you are denying anymore do you? 8)
GNARGNAR
And you cannot know that people who break into your house don't mean to kill you. Why take the chance? Would you take the chance?
yes facts prove that most house robberies are indeed just bungled attepted murders gone wrong sorry my mistake from now on I will kill every mother ****ing one of them... Junkyard wonders if irony will work where facts dont
JunkyardGNARGNAR
yes facts prove that most house robberies are indeed just bungled attepted murders gone wrong sorry my mistake from now on I will kill every mother ****ing one of them... Junkyard wonders if irony will work where facts dont
Aye very good smart arse - there are plenty examples of bungled robberies were the people getting burgled end up being beaten to death, often pensioners or people in isolated rural areas.
[url] http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article1379800.ece [/url]
[url] http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1477109/Burglar-murders-grandmother.html [/url]
[url] http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9504EFD7113EE033A25756C0A9649D946897D6CF [/url]
So I take it if you hear someone rooting around your house tonight after you've gone to bed you'll just go back to sleep, safe in the knowledge all the friendly thieves want is your telly?
nope lol
im just wondering now how the law would view my ice axes getting stored under the bed , as its nice and safe there for them. and easy to hand if i hear a noise in the night 😉
I have a nice baseball bat that I made at school for such occasions 🙂
My shotgun use to live in the wardrobe but when I moved to the big smoke I had to leave it with the old folks. Probably best that way...
You may keep calling me smart arse if it makes you feel superior but the law is as I state
So I take it if you hear someone rooting around your house tonight after you've gone to bed you'll just go back to sleep, safe in the knowledge all the friendly thieves want is your telly?
No I will clearly kill them without asking or saying anything they deserve it as so many people die in robberies etc etc i will use the baseball bat, ice axe, shotgun, bread knife from my personall armoury I sleep with.... the law will support me and you can defend me in court I am confident I will walk free at the end as a hero.
Junkyard notes facts and irony failed so tries saracasm and goading.
Yeah that works well.
If they've got previous the driver should get a medal.
Don't know about you, but I am completely useless at fighting. Hopeless.
I once found a man in my house who had decided that if the door pushed open it must be because there was something inside that belonged to him. I got sufficiently hyped up on adrenaline and projectile swearing that he understood that I wanted him to leave and he got out of the door fairly sharpish. I do not want to think too hard about what might have happened if he had not decided to beat a retreat. I would have felt entirely better about the situation if I had had something vaguely weapon-ish to hand while I was shouting at him.
Don't know, but I guess if I had to wallop someone while feeling that vulnerable, and by some astounding fluke they fell over, I would not have the courage and self-restraint to stop hitting them until they were quite clearly dead, to zombie movie standards of deadness, such that the head was completely detached and there was no possibility of them suddenly grabbing me by the ankle...
😯
😯
one of my mates went downstairs to see if he had a burgler and got battered with a bat and left there. they still took what they wanted from downstairs but left his mrs alone up there (thats if they even realised she was there) but she hid for ages (dont blame her) after the noises stopped before coming down. which did my mate no good at all. i guess discretion is the better part of valour in many instances
If someone is 'in' your house it should be all bets off, end of story.
I doubt we know enough about what went on with the lorry driver. I'd put good money on his defence saying he was using the knife for its intended 'sandwich' purpose at the time it kicked off.
I have no sympathy for any one injured while they are committing a crime, none at all. They should be 'waxing' the steps at the Police station for scum like this.
I got attacked by two bikers one with a knife.
I kicked the crap out of one while other was winded.
They jumped on one bike-leaving one and sped off while harry Potter lookalike thank'd me-they tried to mug him and he ran behind me as I was trying to get to my date to invite me in for the night.
They stabbed two other guys after that event just for their wallet. I was lucky; but they targetted small weaker ppl the coward robbers.
No need is there.
(I was young and dumb-probably give them wallet-it's not worth dying for)
I am led to believe that if someone is in your house and downstairs (assuming it has more than one floor) then you would be in a bit of bother if you beat them to death. But if someone is upstairs, they are presumed to mean you and/or your family harm and as such its open season.
I personally think that the law needs to be changed to allow property owners more rights in defending themselves. It might make the thieving bar stewards think twice!
I keep a Maglite 3 d-cell next to the bed in case of power cuts, they are fairly heavy though an if it was to get dropped on someones head I think it might hurt them...
There are 4 people that know what happened in this incident, one of them is now an ex-alleged robber. If the bloke was acting in self defence fair dos, only problem is that people who make a living from this sort of activity will now go in a bit more heavy handed and it just ups the ante all round and can only end in tears.
anyone see crimewatch last night ? the poor old fella that got battered .if his mrs could have stuck a knife in the burgler i guess she'd be doing hard time now instead of being confined to a home as her poor husband can no longer look after her ;-(
still it gives the police something to do as the ****ers still havent been found yet ;-(