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My formative years were spent telling my mother what sort of day I’d had whilst doing the dishes together. One to wash, one to dry and one to put away (usually after the other two had finished). When our dishwasher has failed the family conversation is always better.
I've spent the afternoon cooking a couple of dishes, one for today and one for the freezer, washing up by hand as I went along. A nice way to spend a few hours communing with a bottle of wine culminating in a splendid dinner to boot.
Our DW conked out, Control panel died. Replacment parts were available, but close to 50% of the cost of a complete new one.
So, survived quite well for over a year without one.
Eventually snapped and got it replaced, mainly due to a good one (Bosch) being on offer, and realising that it'd be expected when we come to sell.
We still only use it after big meals once or twice a week.
We're currently a family of four in temporary accommodation without a dishwasher. 9 months and 2 days and I don't think it's really been a problem. Primary school age kids are trained to do their own (mostly).
But we don't have people around for meals. It's definitely better when there's lots of dishes to have a dishwasher.
There’s only 2 of us anyway. I quite like washing up, just as much as Mrs Egf likes ironing. I wash up, she irons.
What’s ironing 🙂
I tend to use the dishwasher on the weekend for a treat.
Fire brigades tend to advise against using dishwashers and washing machines while you’re asleep or out.
...
Although its only a risk to your property if you’re running it while you’re out
I always found it weird that white goods would work perfectly fine so long as you were in the house watching TV for four hours, yet would spontaneously combust and burn down the house if you went to take the bins out. My mum still physically unplugs the TV before going to bed every night for the same reason.
You need a better system – there’s a skill in stacking. My pile of washed pots is a work of art! 🤣🤣
You should talk to my other half. Crystal glasses on the bottom, farmhouse iron pans on top, why do we keep getting broken glasses? 🤔
I’m contemplating moving the washing machine into the bog, so we have space for a dishwasher.
Why not?
When you think about it, having it in the kitchen is weird. Your laundry's upstairs to start with, clothes storage also. The 'utility room' should be where you're already generating steam from baths and showers, no?
For breakfast we may have Porridge to start with followed by poached eggs on toast with fruit and yogurt to finish.
You have a three course meal for breakfast? I think I gained weight just reading that. 😁
The energy rating doesn’t look good however at ‘E’ , if I’ve read that right.
Point of note here is that the energy ratings were regraded last year. The old A+++ grade is like a C on the new scale, your 'E' there would formerly have been something like A or A+.
I’m contemplating moving the washing machine into the bog, so we have space for a dishwasher.
Makes sense but are you allowed to put an electric socket in the bog or bathroom?
I’m contemplating moving the washing machine into the bog, so we have space for a dishwasher.
Makes sense but are you allowed to put an electric socket in the bog or bathroom?
I was working in Norway for a while and the little AirBnB apartment I rented had the washing machine in the bathroom. Makes perfect sense.
The UK has much stricter electrical regs because of a hangover from crap fuseboxes with no RCDs/MCMs back in the day. It's why we have fused plugs. I can't see why there is a significant risk from a properly protected socket in a bathroom.
I always found it weird that white goods would work perfectly fine so long as you were in the house watching TV for four hours, yet would spontaneously combust and burn down the house if you went to take the bins out. My mum still physically unplugs the TV before going to bed every night for the same reason.
You're missing the point. As told to me by the Surrey Fire Brigade when they fitted alarms, confirmed by a mate from the LFB, and then additionally it did happen to another friend of mine.
It won't stop it malfunctioning and catching fire. But if you are awake you will probably smell smoke before the smoke alarms go off, and have extra time to get out. You certainly won't be woken in the early hours trapped in upstairs rooms where the smoke has now built up and need rescuing from upstairs windows.
Absolutely, compared to the number of dishwasher cycles run every day it's a tiny number, but google house fire and dishwasher and you'll see it does happen.
And fire, more than anything, terrifies me.
Happened to a friend of mine. Kitchen destroyed as fire took hold while they slept.
Fortunately they woke up and escaped, but doubtless they'd have twigged the kitchen was on fire sooner if they were using the DW in the daytime.
My mate and his GF had to be laddered out through upstairs windows. House was saved but almost everything was destroyed by smoke or water damage, they were out for months in rented accommodation while it was refurbished.
I'd actually much prefer something to go up (if it has to, obviously prefer still if nothing caught fire!!) when I was out, I'd imagine having to escape or be rescued from a burning house is not that much fun!I always found it weird that white goods would work perfectly fine so long as you were in the house watching TV for four hours, yet would spontaneously combust and burn down the house if you went to take the bins out.
I actually know 2 families who've had their houses gutted by faulty white goods lately, one was a fridge so obviously on all the time anyway 😬. One lot were home but got out ok, the other were out anyway as walking the dog!
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<div class="bbp-reply-content p-0">I don’t use riseaid. No need with beautiful edinburgh water
You will after a 18months-2 years …. Your waters harder than mine and you will get away with it for a while but it’ll catch up with you.
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have never used rinseaid in about 20 years of lothians dishwashering, absolutely no issue, if the glasses don’t come out sparkling it’s a sign the filter is gunged up.
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neither my parents nor my in-laws have dishwashers - both seem to enjoy the ritual of washing up. They also have a stereotypical “she cooks, he washes” approach and replacing 1/2 of that with a machine may upset the balance! They must spend 60+ hrs a year doing dishes. Given neither are particularly busy it’s probably good for them - they don’t have Internet forums to waste their lives in front of!
Zilog - I’m with you - I’m not sure there is much sense being in a house that goes up in flames, If my dishwasher goes up I fully expect by the time my smoke/heat detectors alert me it’s too late for me to do anything about it and all I can do is evacuate and call the fire brigade. With a retained fire service it will take at least 15 minutes for a crew to arrive and so there is going to be extensive damage at best. Whilst I know fire services are not keen on them being used overnight either (for the same reasons) - realistically the incidence rate is low, and I suspect it’s like asking A&E consultants about trampolines, cycling, etc; police officers about home security, IT professionals about VPNs etc you get an artificially enhanced perception of risk. I only know directly of one housefire caused by a washing machine (nealry 40 yrs ago) and it wasn’t actually in use at the time. If it was really a true risk when they are in use insurance companies would be creating exclusion clauses.
Fortunately they woke up and escaped, but doubtless they’d have twigged the kitchen was on fire sooner if they were using the DW in the daytime.
would they? Unless you actually sit in the kitchen and watch it I doubt most people would notice before any alarms went off.
Makes sense but are you allowed to put an electric socket in the bog or bathroom?
Contrary to popular belief you are, though there are strict regulations as to exactly where.
Either way, if you were to have white goods in a bathroom I'd expect them to be hard-wired rather than be on a regular plug.
You’re missing the point. As told to me by the Surrey Fire Brigade when they fitted alarms, confirmed by a mate from the LFB, and then additionally it did happen to another friend of mine.
I don't think I am. I wasn't trying to say that there isn't a fire risk from, well, anything electrical and I have no doubts that electrical fires do happen occasionally. Rather that as Zilog says, it could just as easily be your fridge. Do you unplug that at night? If the perceived risk is from unattended appliances, during the day do you think "I can't go for a crap, the dishwasher's on"?
Your fire brigade mates, did they say why the fire started beyond "the dishwasher"? Was running it causal, or was it a 40-year old machine filled with mice? Would they even know? They're experts in putting fires out, not in forensic root cause analysis.
Mitigating risk is good and all, and your pyrophobia is understandably driving it, but it does feel an awful lot like "established wisdom" from the 1970s. At the first sniff of thunder my gran would run round the house in a panic, unplugging everything and pulling the aerial out of the telly. Which, yes, probably reduced the risk of us all dying in a lightning strike induced fireball from "vanishingly close to **** all" to "absolutely **** all" but... ?
it could just as easily be your fridge. Do you unplug that at night? If the perceived risk is from unattended appliances, during the day do you think “I can’t go for a crap, the dishwasher’s on”?
No, because the fridge 'has to' run at night. Your washing machine and dishwasher doesn't.
Look, I'm only passing on info given to me by the FB and backed up by 'anecdote' and maybe i am over sensitive. Typically STW, sounds like you know better so crack on.
Makes sense but are you allowed to put an electric socket in the bog or bathroom?
Contrary to popular belief you are, though there are strict regulations as to exactly where.
Either way, if you were to have white goods in a bathroom I’d expect them to be hard-wired rather than be on a regular plug.
The tumble dryer is already in the bog. Hard wired via fused spur. Toilet and hand basin only. Bath and shower are in another room.
Would mean some plumbing, either stacking the units and building a taller cupboard, or swapping to a washer dryer. Not keen on extra expense of a new washing machine on top of the cost of the dishwasher.
There are other options for the dryer. I think next door have Thiers outside by the sound of it!
Either way I've promised to sort out a dishwasher over the Christmas break. How romantic!
No dishwasher here. No ideal place for it without losing cupboard space. Only the 2 of us so one cooks and one washes. Fairs fair. I seriously doubt it uses more power or even water. We're very frugal and have nice low bills each month. 20 minutes max to wash up an elaborate meal and max 2 small washing up bowls if I've used lot's of large saucepans and baking trays. Everything is lightly rinsed before air drying on the rack and no need to put everything away apart from big stuff. It's perfectly tidy on the drainer until you use it next. Whoever said you have to wash up 3 times a day so use 3 times as much... seriously a couple of toast plates and mugs from the morning and those get done with dinner. If I do wash up just a small amount to be tidy it uses a couple of cups water max. Also washing up by hand obviously saves money in winter as you're moving about more so saves needing the heating on as high during that time plus we're on our feet so helping fight the obesity epidemic. Win win 😉
Whoever said you have to wash up 3 times a day so use 3 times as much
That would be me. Family of four...
After changing all my old halogen downlighters to LED about 8 years ago I've little fear of a fire being started by the dishwasher.
When I pulled the units out of the ceiling, to remove the 12v transformers, I was horrified to see how many of them had either burnt or chewed wires with no insulation and exposed wires. It was lethal!
No, because the fridge ‘has to’ run at night. Your washing machine and dishwasher doesn’t.
But the fridge can, and does. Daily (nightly) and continually, for years.
Look, I’m only passing on info given to me by the FB and backed up by ‘anecdote’ and maybe i am over sensitive. Typically STW, sounds like you know better so crack on.
I don't know better, rather I'm considering the authority of your info.
Some bloke who puts fires out says that dishwashers catch fire. Sure, no reasons to doubt that. But why would that happen? Because the homeowners left it unattended and it went "aha, now's my chance!" or because it should have been maintained or replaced 20 years ago? Because if it's the latter then your risk mitigation strategy is addressing the wrong problem, and if the former then they probably should be banned.
Maybe there's a wider issue here. We typically get boilers serviced annually, why is periodic inspection of other white goods not a thing? If I had something in my house that I thought might spontaneously explode and kill everyone then I'd get a man out to it occasionally, or at least take the back off myself and look for obviously frayed wiring etc.
Some bloke who puts fires out
With this you're starting to be a bit of a dick now. A huge part of what the fire service do is based around education and prevention. It's not 'some bloke who puts fires out' pet peeve.
https://www.london-fire.gov.uk/safety/the-home/bedtime-checks/
From Staffs:
“Don't be tempted leave the washing machine, tumble dryer or dishwasher running overnight or while you are out. <b>They are a fire risk because of their high wattage, friction and motors</b>.
Your point on doing regular inspection is also kind of covered; rather than the inexpert 'take the back off and check for frayed wires' if it starts to malfunction get it properly checked, and secondly register it - so you can get recall notices if something is identified.
I absolutely understand tumble dryers best being run while the house is occupied seeing as they do get really quite warm and there's a fair amount of burny, fluffy stuff in them.
But the fire brigade don't seem to be making much noise about boilers which generally get very hot and handle stuff that goes bang!
Or ovens, or microwaves both of which have plenty of potential for starting fires.
Do some people not have any of those because there is a slim chance that they too might burst into flames?
Isn't it more important to have effective, linked, smoke detectors in the room? Just in case your, water filled, washing machine does catch fire?
(Some of the above is said in jest, but not necessarily all of it 😉)
do you put your oven on and then go to bed?
And the point isn't about boilers (which should be serviced every year) or microwaves, or fridges, or even about washing machines and tumble dryers.
The thread was about the convenience of putting the dishwasher on last thing at night and waking up to a clean set of pots and pans. Which someone rightly said was against the advice of the fire brigades, etc.
The London Fire Brigade told the Guardian that it attends a fire that can be traced to white goods of some sort on a daily basis. As a result it advises people not to leave them unattended overnight.
If a fire breaks out during the night, whatever the cause, the risk to life is always greater as it is very likely people will be asleep and have less time to react and escape,” an LFB spokesman says.
While only 11% of fires occurred in the five hours between midnight and 5am, these caused a fifth of all deaths in Great Britain in 2013-14.
I know people will say doubling your risk from 0.0000x to 0.00002x, etc., but why double the risk if you don't have to.
sharkbait
Free MemberBut the fire brigade don’t seem to be making much noise about boilers which generally get very hot and handle stuff that goes bang!
Boilers are designed around that, installed with that in mind and are also supposed to be inspected and serviced regularly, is probably the major difference. Whereas washing machines etc are pretty much ignored til they break, can be full of dust and suchlike, and are pretty much stuck under worktops or into utility rooms without the same level of thought. We had to get a qualified guy in to fit our boiler but I installed the dryer, using no skill or foresight at all.
Kind of like how chargers are disproportionately likely to start a fire- not because they're always going on fire, but because when they do, they're more likely to be on the floor under a tshirt or something.
Whilst I appreciate there are potential advantages in water usage, I still struggle to see how the extraction of raw materials, followed by the manufacture, transportation and ultimate disposal of the dishwasher makes for a more environmentally friendly alternative than good old fashioned washing up...
Whatsmore, how is the electric heating of water in the dishwasher magically much more efficient than a kettle?
I really don’t think people consider the environment in their choice of how to wash plates and cuttlery, its just something they say to justify their choice, or as an “interesting” 🥱 aside. Its just a chore some prefer to do one way, some another.
realising that it’d be expected when we come to sell.
Why not keep the old one so the unimaginitive idiot buyers can visualise it then "take it with you" (to the tip) as they are only going to want a new one to match whatever redecorating they plan on doing?
I know people will say doubling your risk from 0.0000x to 0.00002x, etc., but why double the risk if you don’t have to.
I wouldn't listen to anyone who was that bad at maths TBH. I also wouldn't trust anyone in my house, including me, to spot a fire quicker than a properly installed smoke or heat detector.
Whatsmore, how is the electric heating of water in the dishwasher magically much more efficient than a kettle?
It's not, it's the same method. The amount of water and energy used on the other hand...
I wouldn’t listen to anyone who was that bad at maths TBH.
LOL
I also wouldn’t trust anyone in my house, including me, to spot a fire quicker than a properly installed smoke or heat detector.
Maybe not. But that's not the point - as the article clearly says, and as I helpfully pasted for you:
If a fire breaks out during the night, whatever the cause, the risk to life is always greater as it is very likely people will be asleep and have less time to react and escape,” an LFB spokesman says.
While only 11% of fires occurred in the five hours between midnight and 5am, these caused a fifth of all deaths in Great Britain in 2013-14.
So I'm not discussing with someone with that lack of comprehension either.
With this you’re starting to be a bit of a dick now. A huge part of what the fire service do is based around education and prevention. It’s not ‘some bloke who puts fires out’ pet peeve.
I meant no disrespect, I have no doubts that it's a difficult and demanding job from top to bottom. I highly doubt that I could do it.
Rather, there is a difference in reporting between "there was a house fire because dishwasher" and "there was a dishwasher fire because ill-maintained drain / worn-out wiring loom / etc."
Does the fire service get involved in forensics? I genuinely don't know.
“Don’t be tempted leave the washing machine, tumble dryer or dishwasher running overnight or while you are out. <b>They are a fire risk because of their high wattage, friction and motors</b>.
Sure. But they are of equal fire risk regardless of your presence or absence.
That "bedtime checks" list also tells you not to charge your phone overnight. When do you charge yours?
So I’m not discussing with someone with that lack of comprehension either.
With all due respect, you're normally a voice of reason but I think in this instance your phobia is colouring your judgement.
When I'm sat at my desk. Not overnight.
Maybe I'm paranoid (pedant point - being scared of fire isn't a phobia; being scared of being burned alive is an entirely LOGICAL fear) but it takes no extra effort to do the things suggested.
Rather, there is a difference in reporting between “there was a house fire because dishwasher” and “there was a dishwasher fire because ill-maintained drain / worn-out wiring loom / etc.” Does the fire service get involved in forensics?
Yes; either directly or using forensic experts. They might go to the detail you consider relevant but I'd also consider how actionable knowing the actual fault and cause is. It's more actionable to give the advice they have (don't run them overnight, if in doubt get a specialist to service it, register it so you get recalls, etc.) than to give a truly accurate but more confusing piece of advice, e.g: don't run it at night unless you're fully on top of keeping the drain clean, have checked the wiring periodically, and are on top of the recall schedule.
But they are of equal fire risk regardless of your presence or absence.
That is the point. If it's going to catch fire I'd rather be awake and ready to respond rather than woken in the night, confused and befuddled, trapped upstairs by the smoke spreading through the downstairs...... so don't run them overnight.
I get the point maybe that running them while out avoids that, but also means that the fire won't be discovered until considerably later with the risk of worse damage or total loss (plus the dog burning to death because the FS won't go in to rescue pets at risk to their life)
With all due respect, you’re normally a voice of reason but I think in this instance your phobia is colouring your judgement.
That was intended as a tongue in cheek response to Squirrelking's comment on my maths prowess, which hasn't come across. I apologise. I really don't care that much, you carry on as you are and I'll do what I do - it doesn't actually affect me. I just don't quite understand your logic; if you were arguing that 2x miniscule is still miniscule enough that the convenience outweighs the risk in your mind, then I'd still think you were wrong but up to you.
Arguing that there's no extra risk by a fire starting while you're asleep upstairs compared to awake and in the next room...... that makes no sense to me.
Maybe I’m paranoid (pedant point – being scared of fire isn’t a phobia; being scared of being burned alive is an entirely LOGICAL fear) but it takes no extra effort to do the things suggested.
being scared of being burned alive is an entirely logical fear for sure, but being scared of being burned alive because you're in a house with a dishwasher is irrational. I'm scared of drowning but I don't turn off the isolation valves on the bath before I go to bed.
Yes; either directly or using forensic experts.
Cool, I did not know that and I apologise. Have you got the findings from these analyses? I'd genuinely like to read them.
It’s more actionable to give the advice they have... than to give a truly accurate but more confusing piece of advice
Sure, because in the fire service's top 12 tips to avert house fires, these same people are seemingly surprised to be learn that they should try not to fall asleep whilst smoking in bed.
If it’s going to catch fire I’d rather be awake and ready to respond rather than woken in the night,
As others have already said, if it's going to catch fire then I'd rather have a functional alarm and extinguishers.
I just don’t quite understand your logic
Everything we do has an element of risk. Eating carries an inherent risk of choking; conclusion, we stop eating? Crossing the road you could be hit by a bus, do we just stop crossing roads or do we accept that the chance of bus death is offset by the benefit of getting a meatball marinara from Subway across the way? We can't even just stay in bed and hide from it all because Deep Vein Thrombosis could kill you.
My logic is simply this. Is the lifestyle hit worth the saving on peace of mind (in your case almost certainly) and is the action you're taking the best way of achieving that (I'd guess not)?
This is why I'm poking at your fire services reports, and you've not come back with anything because likely you don't know any more than I do. If they look into why fires occur then, well, why do they happen? "Yes but appliance" doesn't wash (so to speak), what went wrong here? Where is this data?
If tumble dryers are catching fire because the lint trap hasn't been cleaned in a decade then the solution isn't to sit there watching the thing for an hour just in case it bursts into flames, it's to clean out the bloody lint trap occasionally (or y'know, to fit sensors that shut the thing down before that happens). No?
Again - when do you charge your phone?
Arguing that there’s no extra risk by a fire starting while you’re asleep upstairs compared to awake and in the next room…… that makes no sense to me.
Call me wild and crazy, but I'd rather not have a fire at all.
Don't you have alarms? If we had a fire here, it'd wake the street.
Your post is too long to answer every point, but in summary, in practical terms we have to cross roads, we have to eat, we have to go out and can't stay in bed all day. You can even argue we have to run the dishwasher, for the benefit it entails versus doing the washing up. But you don't have to do it overnight when you're asleep. That is the sole point I'm making.
No, I don't have access to the forensic reports, I'm not in the FS. I'm just passing on what others have said, and what is said by 'the experts' from various safety and FS's in the links provided. I did google, and there are summaries online, e.g
Dishwashers
Prior to the rise in popularity of dishwashers in the late 1970s, dropping a plate was the worst thing that could happen while doing the dishes. This past October, over half a million dishwashers sold between January 2013 and May 2015 were recalled because the power cords could overheat and catch fire.[i] However, the most common causes of dishwasher fires are the infiltration of water, detergent or rinse-aid on the control circuit board(s), and the heating element overheating. Failure of the heating element, which frequently results in the ignition of the plastic tub, can be especially destructive.
https://origin-and-cause.com/articles/rise-of-the-machines-appliance-fire-and-flood-claims/
Dishwashers. As previously mentioned, the major cause of fire from dishwashers is moisture contacting the conductors. The controller for most dishwashers is at the top of the door and moisture can reach this area if the interior of the door leaks. The plastic components that release the detergent or finishing agents on the interior of the door can become brittle over time and then crack and start to leak. When the door is opened to a horizontal position, the water inside the door can reach the controller at the top of the door and cause a fire.
Another fire cause is the wiring loom passing through the base of the door becoming stressed due to the door opening and closing over time and the insulation breaking down, resulting in a short circuit.
Dishwashers can also cause fires if a combustible material contacts the element during the drying cycle. Combustible materials such as plastic cups, paper plates or a towel accidentally left inside the machine can ignite.
https://www.tcforensic.com.au/docs/article8.html
As to
As others have already said, if it’s going to catch fire then I’d rather have a functional alarm and extinguishers.
It's not an either or. Of course I'd also like them. But - to what end? They'd be more effective if you were awake and alert at the time you needed them, rather than suddenly woken by which time (mate's anecdote) the smoke was already too dense to go downstairs and they had to batten down in an upstairs room and wait for 'the blokes that put fires out' to extract them through the window.
Another google, but you are talking about the differences of seconds. The dishwasher's actually on next door as we speak - if it caught fire now I reckon I'd know sooner than the 1:30-2:00 for the smoke alarm to go off. Maybe I wouldn't. I'm still better off by being awake.
https://www.scutumlondon.co.uk/help-advice/how-fast-does-a-fire-spread/
Again – when do you charge your phone?
Already answered, if you look back, but I'll repost
When I’m sat at my desk. Not overnight.
But you don’t have to do it overnight when you’re asleep. That is the sole point I’m making.
Sure. But IMHO there's vanishingly little reason not to.
Does it matter? Probably not in the grand scheme of things. The whole circle of risk management is that we all make decisions on a continual basis as to what risks are worth the rewards, be that crossing the road, reading a newspaper and risking a papercut, or solo ice-climbing during a blizzard.
You have a concern. I'd ask a) is that a realistic worry and b) assuming it is, is your mitigation the best course of action?
No, I don’t have access to the forensic reports, I’m not in the FS. I’m just passing on what others have said, and what is said by ‘the experts’ from various safety and FS’s in the links provided. I did google, and there are summaries online, e.g
Most of those scenarios can be avoided to varying degrees but sure. You've got a design failure, ill maintenance and user error. None of which will be of much comfort when your kitchen's on fire, I hear you.
It’s not an either or. Of course I’d also like them. But – to what end?
To not obsess about highly unlikely scenarios and get on with sleeping at midnight rather than listening to next door's dishwasher?
Already answered, if you look back, but I’ll repost
Apologies, I totally missed that.
So in the end it comes down to expert advice being that you shouldn't run them overnight, which you are choosing to ignore. It's not 'my' advice and it's not particularly for me to defend the advice, I'm just passing that advice on. I've tried to answer your queries and in the end your answer is to rebut them and say it's my problem, that it's an obsession. I've only looked them up to answer your probing, which was a mistake. So - I'm just passing on the expert advice and saying why I follow it.
I’d ask a) is that a realistic worry and b) assuming it is, is your mitigation the best course of action?
a/ sufficient for the experts to offer advice on it; b/ it's part of a package of measures, which also include smoke alarms, registering for recalls, and so on, as already said. It's a low disruption measure, to just be organised to put it on earlier in the evening.
SUMMARY
Some appliances fail for whatever reason.
Some failures lead to fires.
If a fire happens overnight, you're twice as likely to be killed as a result.
On that basis the expert advice is not to run appliances overnight if you don't have to.
But go on, your choice.
So in the end it comes down to expert advice being that you shouldn’t run them overnight, which you are choosing to ignore.
I'd say it's more a case of general advice given with the lowest common denominator in mind, see smoking in bed. The hazards are certainly worth considering and nobody is dismissing them out of hand however with decent mitigations in place the risk can be lowered (hazard vs risk).
The question we should be asking is whether the correct mitigations are in place.
How many people have a correctly installed fire door with intumescent strip between their kitchen or utility room and the rest of the house? Is that room properly fire sealed? Are there suitable protections on the electrical circuits? Are the appliances regularly cleaned and inspected?
I'd also question the effectiveness of a smoke alarm that takes up to 2 minutes to detect smoke!
How many people have a correctly installed fire door with intumescent strip between their kitchen or utility room and the rest of the house? Is that room properly fire sealed? Are there suitable protections on the electrical circuits? Are the appliances regularly cleaned and inspected?
Agreed, in the fire survey the SFB did while fitting our alarms* they winced because we have open plan downstairs - lounge kitchen and diner, into hallway and stairs - first door a kitchen fire would reach is the bedroom ones (so I made sure they are proper heavy fire resistant ones!). But, that's the reality of many houses, and it's not an either / or scenario, in fact because we / people don't have 'fire compartments' in place is it not even more important that you minimise all other risks particularly when they have little consequence.
* PSA - ask your local FB, they're more than happy to come and give advice, an ounce of prevention, etc.....and some of the stuff they said really was useful and actionable.
Re fire alarms taking 2 mins to respond. Thinking about that, I wonder if some of that is related to the above - if the fire starts in a compartmentalised room, it make take some time for smoke to leak around doors, and trigger it. By which time the kitchen will be properly ablaze, and you're then into the escalation. My open plan smoke alarm probably takes far less time for kitchen fire smoke to reach and trigger, by which time fire will have advanced far less - and may even be treatable if you have e.g. extinguishers**
** not saying don't have extinguishers but more advice from the SFB was pretty well don't bother, useful if you start a fire yourself and can react immediately, if you discover a fire that has started get you and the kids out rather than get in beyond your means.... it's only property and it (should be) insured.
How many people have a correctly installed fire door with intumescent strip between their kitchen or utility room and the rest of the house
so I made sure they are proper heavy fire resistant ones!
utterly pointless unless you have an automatic door closer fitted also!
Agreed, in the fire survey the SFB did while fitting our alarms* they winced because we have open plan downstairs
Did they tut at your gas hob as well (if you have one)? I'm amazed they aren't trying to ban them and only allowing induction!
Life is full of risks and the chances of the dishwasher igniting* are certainly way too small to affect house design decisions.
* Sod the inspections - appliances don't last long enough to require an inspection! 😉
not saying don’t have extinguishers but more advice from the SFB was pretty well don’t bother
Chances are a dishwasher or washing machine fire would also be at the back/underneath a worktop with units either side - the extinguisher might be pretty ineffective.
Isn't the advise simply to get out?
Our house has door closers and fire doors with intumescent strips.
Whatsmore, how is the electric heating of water in the dishwasher magically much more efficient than a kettle?
Theres less water to heat.
And our dishwasher goes on at night because the electricity is 1/4 the price.
Whatsmore, how is the electric heating of water in the dishwasher magically much more efficient than a kettle?
Because a dishwasher is a sealed insulated box. if you blocked the spout and wrapped your kettle in insulation it would be more efficient. Our new dishwasher is so well insulated that the worktop doesn't even get warm when its on a hot cycle whereas our old one would.