MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
I did some of this a while back with the 'classic' type cows tails made of short lengths of rope, but have now been advised that this is dangerous so have bought some purpose built kit [img] 
&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.outdoor-ticker.de%2Fausrustung%2Fmammut-tec-step-via-ferrata-element-vom-bergsteiger-magazin-fur-kleine-empfohlen-worden%2F&h=197&w=600&tbnid=J8giEOZM7U4P2M%3A&zoom=1&docid=PajOWzohLRnlyM&ei=Xlj7U8KaE4z07AavkIHwBA&tbm=isch&client=safari&ved=0CCUQMygEMAQ&iact=rc&uact=3&dur=4525&page=1&start=0&ndsp=29[/img] But something is niggling at the back of my mind
If I take a fall on these the cows tail extends to break the fall, so far so good, but what happens next when the cows tail is 3m long, obviously I could not use it for the rest of the route, so unprotected? That is assuming that at the end of the fall I am not dangling in free space
Am I missing something, should there be some other bit of kit?
I guess don't fall again. Not being facetious, just that you have to draw the line somewhere - back up standby emergency parachute anyone?
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thanks Stoner
I've done a vf a few times but am not a climber. I think if I fell & the kit saved me I would be so relieved any further protection would be academic. My fingers would have to be prised off the rungs.
Never thought about it till you mentioned it.
Just buy the Petzl ones:
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Hth
Marko
You are getting to the point of how many levels of backup do you want to carry.
If it was a decent sized group, I'd not consider it unreasonable for someone to carry a spare lanyard.
As for rescue gear, well again, in a group, 2 guys (in case one of them is the one who falls) each having a locking pulley, 10m of rope and a hand jammer/footloop (plus the knowledge to use them) wouldn't be too hard.
If you're going out just as a pair, then maybe you each need to carry all the kit? What *is* your plan B for when it goes wrong?
(personally, if I took a tumble hard enough to pull out the shock pack on a VF lanyard, I'd probably want to be getting myself off the hill by the simplest, quickest route and checking that my internal organs were all still in the correct location. Oh, and a clean pair of keks!)
(personally, if I took a tumble hard enough to pull out the shock pack on a VF lanyard, I'd probably want to be getting myself off the hill by the simplest, quickest route and checking that my internal organs were all still in the correct location. Oh, and a clean pair of keks!)
+1
Falling when moving vertically is extremely serious even with VF gear; you can easily get a Fall Factor 5 on tumble (factors more than 1 are uncommon in rock climbing).
If you are on overhanging terrain keep a quick draw on your harness belay loop to clip into the rungs if you get pumped.
dont panic mr mannering...... unless you are attempting supersonic stuff, you should be able to recover yourself given a fall/slip. dont go it alone, and have a spare quick draw in the group and a sling each (we use a 3m sling which can be shortened with a knot)
A lot of factors effect what kit to take and a few comments on a forum dont compensate for what you either already know about your [group] confidence level, or will find out right quick on a route. dont be affraid on reversing a route if it gets a bit "10 pence 5 pence".
some fantastic guide books out there for most areas in europe (only place i've done it). full of great info.
Hope you have a great time - and weather!
p.s - the "new pair of keks" comment is valid having watched an italian pair of flip flop types having an epic in the chateau queras a few years back...... cows tails and no plan B - brilliant !
Its worth having a sling or cows tail with HMS krab on your belay loop in case you need to make yourself safe other than the lanyard, if you are really bothered then a 30M rope and an HMS krab is all you should really need to use, you can belay someone off an italian hitch if they are unsure about a section.
On the Dolomites stuff I always carry a rope and some gear as the iron work isn't always in great nick, and has missing bits.
If you have a fall that extends you safety line then you probably are justified in accepting help to get down
As others have said a fall on a vertical section is very serious
Think of it as soloing with an extra back up life. Its nothing like to roping
As mentioned above, a fall that extends the lanyard will be extremely unpleasant and you are very unlikely to want to continue after that. You could always carry your classic type cowtail arrangement on your harness as a back-up for emergencies.
On the Dolomites stuff I always carry a rope and some gear as the iron work isn't always in great nick, and has missing bits.
+1 depending on where you're heading and the overall ability/confidence of the group
30m of beal iceline is not far off a kilo. Throw in a few bits of gear and you can get yourself out of (or in to!! 😉 ) most situations.
I've never taken a proper fall on VF, but would far rather take a 40ft whipper on lead than 10ft onto a laynard!
you can easily get a Fall Factor 5 on tumble
*shudder* 😯
Do they still make those Petzl Zyper things?
OP - check your vf kit is not one that has been recalled.