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So the dog is broken again I think she slipped on some ice. She's been limping and so on and generally looking poorly. As we've been advised before we gave her half an Asparin twice a day for the last few days and she seemed a fair bit better when I left for work this morning.
My wife decided to take her to the vet despite my advice. They were in for less than five minutes, vet gave anti-inflammatories, said keep an eye on her for a week and said she had pulled a tendon.
The cost for this was £50 quid.
I am in the wrong business, I really am.
Yup, i feel your pain. I think it's £15 just to write a prescription at mine and you have to pay per prescription.
Do you have any idea how much it costs to run a vet's practice? I was chatting to our vet recently (the dog needed a 12,000 mile service) and was staggered at the amount they needed to generate just to break even. Don't get me wrong, they clearly do very well, but it's not quite as profitable as you might think.
I wouldn't mind but I can be half dead covered in bruises and in obvious pain and get told to MTFU.
Dog limps a bit and it's straight down the vet.
I know my place in the pecking order!
took our cat to the vet as it had lost a tooth, apparently it was a neck lesion and although i had never heard of it it isn't that unusual. Well it isn't that normal in a 4year old cat, but generally.
cost £30 for ten minutes and some anti inflammatory jab.
Speaking to a casualty DR once, he said he wanmted to be a vet, more money and freebies, but if an animal dies its the vets fault,if a human dies, its a reason they where in hospital, and they where ill and got complications.
joolsburger - Member
I wouldn't mind but I can be half dead covered in bruises and in obvious pain and get told to MTFU.
Dog limps a bit and it's straight down the vet.I know my place in the pecking order!
So you've got a problem with your wife, not the vet then. 😉
A couple of years back our cat came back home severely injured in the middle of the night [2am ish].
We called the vets, who quickly returned our call & asked us to bring the cat to his house.
After he'd examined her, it was clear that there wasn't any hope & he put her down - never charged us a penny
You're spot on, I think a chat is in order. I keep telling her that dogs don't get unhappy or look pensive but she is having none of it. "Look at her face she's so sad" It's a dog woman....
Ok, I'll bite on this one (pun intended)
As mentioned above, do you have any idea how much it costs to run a Veterinary practice? As people's expectations increase, the cost of more advanced equipment and drug stores increase with them. The cost of providing obligatory 24hr cover along with premises etc etc etc all add up.
As a locum I see a big variation in costs (higher in specialist, city centre practices; lower in rural mixed practice, as you would expect) but I would say that, with some exceptions, it's the rural practices that massively under charge rather than the other way round.
Whilst £50 does seem a little steep for a quick visit and a few tablets, I'm sure if you actually saw the breakdown of the fees it wouldn't seem quite so bad.
Unfortunately in this NHS culture, people have lost any value they may have had for health care. For those going to a private GP/Doctor I'm sure the costs incured at the vets seem more reasonable.
And FWIW, in a recent Times Salary study, assistant veterinary surgeons were paid, on average, a similar wage to teachers - and we all know how they're rolling in cash!
My old man is a vet in a small market town, he is now retired and sold his practice to the youger guys, they pay him 150 a day 9-5 to do locum work, apparantly the going rate for locums is 250 per 24 hrs. I think this is crap money considering 7 years training. I think in his last few years he took 45k a year from his business before he sold. This isn't much considering how much risk he took to buy in and invest in it over the years.
Jools I know this was more aimed at your missus than your vet so I'm not having a go at you. It boils my bladder contents when people do nto think about what it cost to run a business and provide a facility that is there when you need it.
Mmmm, I'm afraid I don't have a very high opinion. I used to think vets were marvellous, but not since I've had Missy.
She medicine every day. Government rules state she has to be examined every 6 months. One 'examination' consisted of the vet looking at his computer and asking me questions that he had the answers to on his screen (cost - £34). The other 'examinations' have not been much better. I did some research into the drug she's on and now I have to ask the vet to check her heart and blood pressure. That annoys me as I am paying for their (supposed) expertise.
I can get the medicine much more cheaply online. I need a prescription. I am happy to pay for the vet to write that prescription. But, oh boy, they don't like doing it! And I have to insist every single time that they make it a repeat prescription, which they do with a great deal of reluctance.
Government rules
Not nitpicking, but I'd hazard that it's the RCVS that dictates that she needs to be examined every six months. That's right...Vets are regulated by guess who...yep, vets. It's one big closed shop designed to make as much money as possible. This is highly flippant of course and is written for the purposes of my mate Matt who'll be reading it at some stage. [waves to Matt...Yoo hoo!]
However, there is a flip side. Vets work incredibly hard and often unsociable hours...lots of evenings and weekends. There is a very high suicide rate among the profession (one of the highest I believe). Unless you own the practice, you're unlikely to be making a massive amount of money from it. Overheads are huge. You have to have both skill, knowledge (huge amounts about lots of different animals) and follow all this up with compassion when the time to euthanase an animal arrives.
Karinofnine, check the RCVS website. If you have a problem with a vet, you can complain. They do take complaints seriously. Check how thoroughly their hearings are heard (they're all there for the public record).
If you want to have a pop at a profession for making easy money, try dentists 
EDIT: Actually, having reread your post K, just tell them next time you're taking your business elsewhere and let the RCVS know if you're not happy.
[i]Government rules state she has to be examined every 6 months.[/i]
Eh? What is she, and what rules?
There is a very high suicide rate among the profession (one of the highest I believe).
You're not mixing up animal vets and Vietnam vets here are you?
We went to Morzine this year with a load of vets (animal, not Vietnam), and they were mad as a box of frogs, worth every penny just for that in my humblest of opinions. Pay vets more, they're funny.
EDIT to my earlier post. I'm withdrawing the statement about suicide...it may be an urban myth 🙂
Dobermann on Propalin. Is it the RCVS who makes the rules? Oh, well, I still have to go every six months. I wouldn't mind at all if she was getting a thorough examination, in fact I'd LOVE her to have a thorough exam, but to be forced to go only to witness the most cursory exam is irritating to say the least.
When I first got her I decided to stick with one vet, Cuffley Vet Centre, so they would have history with her and she with them. What actually happened was that each time I went we saw a different vet, one of which was a man, despite me emphasising to the practice that Missy had been ill-treated by a man/men and was nervous of them. I've given up on the continuity thing now and am just about to try a new vet in New Addington on Saturday. I have, as usual, told the receptionist why I'm coming and what the drug is. Let's see if this time the vet does some homework [u]before[/u] I get there, instead of umming and ahhing through the appointment, and then asking me to come back (so they get to charge me twice).
I'd charge you at least £30 for 15 mins of professional opinion more if it had 7 years of training to back it up. Vets generally undercharge and making a living is not easy. If you think you are in the wrong buissness retrain.
at a minimum of £3k per year I'm sure you can get yourself sorted
Mikewsmith - I would be delighted to pay £30 for 15 minutes of professional opinion - if that was what I got! That is my point, I tell them beforehand what the problem is, yet when I get there they start looking in books because they don't know, then they dissemble through the appointment and ask me to come back. Why am I having to do the research on the drug and its possible side effects and the things the vet should be looking for - and then have to prompt the vet when I get there!
Does that sound like "professional opinion" to you? It doesn't to me.
I don't think I'm in the wrong business, thank you, but if you think vets are undercharging and finding it hard to make a living, perhaps they are?
Sorry, I don't understand your last sentence, could you rephrase please?
I'd say mike's comments were directed at the OP. (but I'm sure he can speak for himself).
Sorry to hear of your travails though K. I know it's been tough with Missy at times but I'm sure you're doing an amazing job. Stick with it and good luck finding a better vet. 🙂
I fully appreciate the costs involved in running a business. I think £50 for 5 minutes is steep. I, happily, can afford it. I wonder how many animals suffer needlessly because the vets bills are prohibitive.
I wonder how many animals suffer needlessly because the owners don't look in to the cost associated with keeping said pet.
our cat had an infection, I took her to the vets and said "our cat has an infection". He said yes, gave her an injection of antibiotics and told me to bring her back in a week, which i did, he gave another injection. Total cost £125.
Now, I know they are trained professionals, and i know they are hugely skilled, but next time I buying drugs off the internet and doing the injection myself. Could of got a new cat for £125, or better yet some bike vying that wouldn't poo on the carpet and eat from my bowl.
Hmm ok - I thought this may run.
Government rules state she has to be examined every 6 months.
This is true. In order for a vet to prescribe a POM (prescription only medicine) the animal in question has to be "under our care" and seen at "reasonable intervals". Whilst this is a grey area, most vets consider 6 months as the maximum period between checks, in order to ensure the drugs continuing suitability and check for problems. Whilst I understand your frustration with such checks in an apparently healthy and stable animal, it [i]is[/i] a legal requirement.
You say you can get the drugs cheaper online, and yet resent paying for a consultation/prescription. Assuming you do actually want veterinary care within easy reach 24/7, how do expect your local practice to survive. The online pharmacy arguement is similar to that of CRC/wiggle vs LBSs and, if more people use that option, the price of professional time (which is what you're paying for) can only go up to compensate.
I am a little baffled as to why you have to do research on what is a commonly used and incredibly safe drug though - obviously I don't know the individual case and may be missing something but, even if you go to another vets, your full history should be passed on to the new vets and continuity of care should be easily achieved.
apparantly the going rate for locums is 250 per 24 hrs
I would say that is the top end of the scale, and would be for just that - ie 24hrs, working a full day then on duty over night.
I'm withdrawing the statement about suicide...it may be an urban myth
Nope - this has been true for a long time. I guess one reason being the relatively easy access to materials to do the deed etc.
The senior partner in my first job used to take anyone seeing practice there aside (from GSCE to final year vet student) and give them a standard lecture on why they should reconsider their career choice and go be a dentist. 😯
Edit - having said all that, there's no other job I'd rather do. Isn't the world a strange place 😕
meehaja - that does sound steep but again, without knowing the case etc etc.
Assuming your cat gets an infection next time and you want to inject her yourself, I'd wonder where you'd get injectables/syringes/needles and what you'd base your antibiotic choice on? Pedantic maybe but that's like me saying the garage charged me £300 to fix my car - I'm doing it myself next time.....
I'm guessing that I may be fighting a losing battle given your comment on a new cat being cheaper though.
£50 for 5 minutes is steep. I, happily, can afford it. I wonder how many animals suffer needlessly because the vets bills are prohibitive.
Yes that is steep but I'm guessing that's in an urban small animal practice with high over heads. As for vets bills being prohibitvely expensive, if cost is that much of a issue the PDSA/Blue cross do fantastic work.
The decision to own a pet should factor in whether you can afford to feed, house and pay for any treatment that may occur. IMHO
You know that screen that faces away from the client where you pretend to write notes and stuff? That's really you googling the symptoms isn't it? 🙂
OK
For those who don't read the news
It will cost you a minimum of £3k per year to study at University
Like any profession there is good and bad, some more and some less experienced.
As a point of reference how much does it cost (The tax payer not you) if you go to see a doctor?
FBK, sorry, I thought I made my position clear.
Regular checks: I didn't say I resent paying for a consultation nor would I be frustrated at having to have Missy checked every six months IF IT WAS A PROPER EXAM, which it has not been. To get the vets to do anything more than look at her and ask if the medicine is working, I have to prompt them. Further, leaving aside the medicine, she is a Dobe, a breed known to have heart problems yet I have had to ask each vet specifically to listen to her heart. In the past one asked for a urine sample, so now I prompt for that too.
Prescription: I made it clear that I am happy to pay for them to write the prescription. I am unhappy that they do so with such bad grace, and that they have to be asked specifically to write a repeat prescription (still coming under the six-month check period).
It's not the money, I knew when I took her on it was going to be expensive. I just object to doing the research myself!
Incidentally, I can get the medicine via the internet with no prescription at all, but I prefer madam to see the vet because I care about her and hope (but that hope is dwindling) that the vet will pick up any early signs of illness or side effects because of all that training (that gets mentioned whenever you bring up the fees or dare to complain about vets).
Up until Missy I had a high opinion of vets, maybe I've just had a run of bad ones. Let's hope Saturday is a more positive experience!
BTW, by your argument, are you saying that vets use the sale of drugs to subsidise the consultation fees?
My dad was a vet, he had his own practice then worked for the MinAg eventually.
The drugs are very expensive, partly because they are very high quality.
They are paid less than their ' human' surgeon equivalents and the suicide rate is the highest of any profession.
A hard job indeed, very lonely too.
As fbk says, for those who whinge about the cost of a visit to the vets, how much do you think a visit to the GP would cost if there was no NHS ..... a tenner ?
Veterinary surgeons are one of the professions which I most admire. In my experience, vets are highly knowledgeable and extremely dedicated. I never cease to be amazed by their diagnostic skills, specially as the feed back from the patient is obviously very minimal, and they often rely on nothing more than feeling and prodding.
I consider it an exceptionally challenging job, and I can well believe the claim of high suicide rates which I have often heard. It requires on the one hand, for the vet to be somewhat detached and unemotional, so that they can put down animals on a daily basis, whilst on the other hand, feel enormous compassion and concern for their patient.
Added to that, they have to be extraordinary sensitive to the feelings of pet owners, when they need to inform them that there is no hope for their pet, and then deal with the consequence of a devastated owner who often emotionally breaks down.
Vets are worth every penny they earn imo. It's an incredibly hard job which deserves to be highly rewarded.
You know that screen that faces away from the client where you pretend to write notes and stuff? That's really you googling the symptoms isn't it?
Busted 😳
by your argument, are you saying that vets use the sale of drugs to subsidise the consultation fees?
Nope, we're not allowed to do that. But there is profit involved in any sale of goods. Internet pharmacies, due to volume of sales, minimal overheads and no provision of 24hour service, can sell drugs for less then we can buy from wholesalers. Logic dictates that, if vets sell less medication but are still required to provide the same service, they will have to charge more for time. Some may argue this is a fairer way to do things but, as this thread highlights, people are reluctant to pay realistic fees for a consultation etc and the last thing vets want to do is put more people off bringing their animal in in the first place. If you speak to any accountant they will be able to show you how the majority of practices lose money during the average conultation, when all out-goings are considered...
You most certainly can't buy Propalin without seeing a vet regularly as it's a POM. Other meds maybe but not propalin.
I have to concede that it does sound like you may have a somewhat "relaxed" vet currently - a full clinical examination is a given at any repeat prescription check. I would have to question the need for a blood pressure check, urine sample etc every time though. As with any business, you are free to use whoever you chose and as I've mentioned above, it should be straight forward to transfer your details over to a different vet if you aren't happy with the service you've received.
Also, whilst Dobermans are indeed over represented when it comes to heart disease, if you have one without a murmur and without any clinical signs of heart failure, I wouldn't stress too much as it sounds like yours is lucky in that respect. You're right though - it wouldn't heart to have a listen 🙂
ernie_lynch - I'm going to leave this thread on a high, thanks 🙂 . I'm off to bed - 12 hour day again tomorrow 😉
part of resposible pet ownership is to look after the little buggers when there ill , if you think its a price to high, take out pet insurance or dont have any pets, its that simple.
NO. 50 quid for 5 minutes work is too much especially as the cost of the drugs was not included.
6 people in an hour at 50 quid a pop is not bad going. Make a day of it and that's the thick end of 2k a day.
I accept a rural practice will be very different to my suburban experience.
I like that idea above of "obligatory 24 hour cover". When we tried to take in an injured stray to ANY of the vets in the local area none answered phones despite repeated calls, if they even displayed 24hr phone numbers on the outside. We tried 6 of them!
Yes, as I stated earlier, £50 does sound steep for a routine consultation, especially if that doesn't include drugs or any other investigation. Still depends on location - would that be in London?
deadlydarcy - MemberYou know that screen that faces away from the client where you pretend to write notes and stuff? That's really you googling the symptoms isn't it?
My fiance's GP does this!!
You must have had a faulty phone/wrong number dave_rudabar. I have never had any problem contacting a vet out of hours on the countless of occasions which I have done so. I once had a cat hit by a car at approx. 9.30pm, after a quick phone call, she was being examined by a vet within 15 mins of the accident (obviously the vet wasn't far away) She survived, but probably only because of speed which she received medical attention.
DR - no idea where you live but, if that's genuinely the case, complaints should be made. Any practice by law, currently has to provide some form of emergency cover 24/7. Even if its via an answering service / out if hours clinic. Whether that's a good thing is another argument.
oops. Double post
FBK is right in the online prescription comparison with CRC v LBS.
You can buy stuff without prescription online but supplying it is illegal so it will come from abroad and it may not be the same formulation, probably not have been stored correctly which can have an affect on efficacy. That is assuming it isn't fake in the 1st place.
Drugs are expensive as vets have to use veterinary products and it is costly for drug companies to test and license them. Human drugs can only be used when no veterinary ones are available. Economies of scale means the vet drugs cost more than human ones.
Any practice by law, currently has to provide some form of emergency cover 24/7.
What I'm sure they don't have to do, is provide free professional advice over the phone. And yet I have on numerous urgent occasions, been given free advice over the phone. Who pays for that then ? And try getting free advice over the phone from another profession .... like say a solicitor !
Errr, no I didn't have the wrong number - the only two that did display out-of-hours numbers outside the premises, didn't answer the phones. Another that advertised a 24hr number in the yellow page (i think it was), also didn't answer.
Well its good to be misunderstood. As a vet in the consulting room the only thing I can charge for is my time (and a little profit on the drugs, but as has been hinted at, internet pharmacies are eating into that). So if you come to see me, and it take 5 minutes, very little explanation and simple reassurance, that costs me as much as someone who takes 15 minutes and all my powers of reassurance and 30 years of experience. Now we could charge clients differing amounts depending on the complexity, or whether we liked them or how much they complained every time they came for their recheck, but most practices charge a set amount per consultation. Like so many thing in life, unfair to some.
Its only going to get worse. Numbers of vets are rising, numbers of dogs and cats are falling - every pet is having to support a bigger part of a vet. Requirements for practice equipment and operational standards are becoming increasingly demanding from a legal, regulatory and client expectation stand point. The working time directives alone are a nightmare for the profession. Despite 25 years of badgering the public, less than 20% of pets are insured. In less densely populated parts of the country veterinary provision is no longer a viable business option.
You'll complain about us till we're gone, then you'll complain 'cause we have gone.
Resignedly & miserably yours,
Colin
I have to say Donaldsons vets in Huddersfield are excellent. Always had first class service, listened to is and our concerns about our elderly cat being affected by injections. Costs aren't cheap but seem reasonable and not £50 for a check up ever. New buildings (even a dog swimming pool/trainer type thing!!!) and when I checked the price of the drugs against online pharmacies they were within a pound or so, certainly not enough of a difference to go elsewhere. I think they do an excellent job and wouldn't go anywhere else.
I adopted a dog a few years back, when I took it out late on the first night it was passing blood in its faeces... Quick call to the vet and off we went - any man that's prepared to get out of bed at 1:30am and stick a finger up a dog's bum is worthy of respect, IMHO.
Vets are proffesionals so I have no problem paying their consultation fees which at our vet is £25 a pop, which is probably about the same/less than to see a Consultant.
What has surprised me is the mark up on drugs though.
Mrs FD always takes our dog to the vets now, as being a Dr she is fully aware of alot of the drugs routinely prescribed. Which in alot of cases are the same as the human variety. Their prices tend to be 2 - 3 times higher than the human variety that you can get round the corner from Boots.
Also our dog takes a low dose of anti-inflammatory every day. The vets want to charge over 100% more for the drug that we now get over the internet (from a ligit UK source). Even the vet thought it was barmey they charged so much when you can get it cheaper else where.
I live in Surrey and I freely admit it's an expensive area for pretty much everything. I'd have been perfectly happy with 25 Pounds for a consultation I think that would have been pretty fair. I think the drugs cost an additional £7.00 on top of the 49.99 fee.
The dog is insured however the excess is £100 so not able to claim for this.
I am absolutely not having a go at all vets, just mine!
FunkyDunk - 2 comments on that. Whilst it would seem we charge silly prices compared with equivalent human meds, we are unfortunately bound by the "drug cascade" which effectively means that, even if there are identical human alternatives, we must prescribe veterinary specific versions that are produced in much smaller volumes and are therefore much more expensive.
As for the online pharmacies, as mentioned previously, the fact that they can buy in huge volumes direct from drug companies and have very basic overheads mean they can often sell drugs for less than vets pay direct from their wholesaler.
That said, I have worked in some places where drug mark ups are a little excessive. As ever, if you don't like what you're getting, shop around. Don't expect to get bargain basement pricing and the best available treatment though - it rarely happens.
I had to get private health care in Ammann recently when I fell funny on my arm. 5 minutes with a GP, 1 x-ray and some anti inflamatries cost me 476USD.
Vetenary care is cheap.
Good morning. Can I stress again that I am not complaining about the cost of the consultation? I am complaining about bad service.
From the Vetoquinol website:
"In the course of field clinical trials loose stools liquid diarrhoea decrease in appetite arrhythmia and collapse were reported in some dogs. Treatment was continued depending on the severity of the undesirable effect observed."
In 4 years I have not been asked one single time if she has loose stools, decrease in appetite, arrhythmia or collapse.
Sympathomimetics may produce a wide range of effects most of which mimic the results of excessive stimulation of the sympathetic nervous system (e.g. effects on heart rate and blood pressure).
In 4 years her heart has been listed to, but only after I asked the vet to do it. She has had her blood pressure taken once, this year, because I asked the vet to do it.
Phenylpropanolamine a sympathomimetic drug may affect the cardiovascular system especially blood pressure and heart rate and should be used with caution in animals with cardiovascular diseases.
Care should be exercised in treating animals with severe renal or hepatic insufficiency diabetes mellitus hyperadrenocorticism glaucoma hyperthyroidism or other metabolic disorders.
Never been asked anything about any of these, or had any tests. Or can vets tell if a dog has any of them by just looking?
(FBK: I have been able to get Propalin from the internet (offshore) without a prescription. It was real too.)
Do you see my point? I have a dog of a breed which has a host of breed-related illnesses but who is also on lifetime medication with its own side effects, yet who, in four years, has had just one single blood pressure check (at my insistence) and sporadic heart listenings (at my insistence), and no mention or check for the other things mentioned on Vetoquinol's website and contained on every leaflet in every bottle sold.
How would you feel if you rang the vet, explained to the receptionist at length why you were coming, asked the question you wanted the vet to answer, and then, when you got there, the vet looked at you blankly and said "Yes, how can I help you today?". Then you have to go all through it all again, only for the vet to say they don't know and will have to look it up and please make another appointment and come back.
Seriously, and I'm not trying to be nasty or anti-vet or wind you up, but how would you feel?
On the plus side, Sam used to cut himself regularly and the vets were always great at sewing him back together and when he got cancer they came out and put him to sleep at home, so minimising distress to all.
I am complaining about bad service
So why the hell have you repeatedly gone back to the same veterinary practice, if you have so little confidence in them ......why are you only [i]now[/i] considering changing ?
My pets mean sufficient to me, to guarantee that I would very quickly stop going to a practice which I had no confidence in.
And btw, I think it's a bit of cheek you insisting that your precious Missy to be seen only by a female vet. We once had a German Shepard who was highly suspicious of black people (as well as people who wore hats) but I wouldn't have dreamt on insisting that he was only seen by a white vet.
I suggest that you seek advise concerning sorting out your neurotic dog. Not least because almost half the human population is male.
EL - I am enjoying the irony of you having a racist dog!
What kind of hats? Or was it just any old hat?
Well it was rather embarrassing mefty. He also didn't like people with disabilities, specially if they had a limp....... a right little Nazi. Still, what would you expect from a German Shepard, eh ? 😐
(FBK: I have been able to get Propalin from the internet (offshore) without a prescription. It was real too.)
So you have managed to illegally import drugs - I have no argument for that if you're happy to break several laws. Just how are you certain it was the "real thing" you were buying?
EL - I'm trying not to laugh at your comments - not really PC are they 🙂
To be honest, I wouldn't mind if someone would rather see a particular vet for whatever reason, personal or professional. You make a good point regarding leaving a practice if not happy with the service though.
Ooo, why so angry Ernie?
1) I have not repeatedly gone back to the same practice, I have changed, but have experienced, to a greater or lesser degree, the same lack in all.
2) As you know, when I first got Missy she was a very messed up girl. I had to go back to the start with lots of things and one of those things was to help her regain confidence in men. The vet is a scary place for many animals (not just Missy) so in the beginning I asked that (in a practice with male and female vets) she be seen by a woman. That is not cheeky, that was one step along the way in changing her from a frightened unsocialised dog into a confident happy dog. There is still work to do, but she is much improved, it's good to see, has been hard. Now, I don't mind what sex the vet is, but in the beginning it was very important that it was a woman.
3) FTIW, if I had a dog who was nervous around black people I would probably not take it to a black vet. Dogs ain't racist, but a bite is a bite, and I wouldn't like to see a vet (of any colour, race or sex) get bitten or have to deal with the fallout. Some dogs just don't like some things, why add to a stressful situation if it can easily be avoided?
I suggest that you seek advise concerning sorting out your neurotic dog. Not least because almost half the human population is male.
Bitchy. I have sought advice, and continue to do so. "My precious Missy" is much improved. Read my post before pressing the launch button 😆
BTW, it's advice (noun), to advise is the verb.
How would you feel if you rang the vet, explained to the receptionist at length why you were coming, asked the question you wanted the vet to answer, and then, when you got there, the vet looked at you blankly and said "Yes, how can I help you today?". Then you have to go all through it all again, only for the vet to say they don't know and will have to look it up and please make another appointment and come back.
Yep that looks pretty bad. I wouldn't be happy if that happened with us. But there will be very few appointments where I'll be informed beforehand by the receptionist the details of clinical questions the client want to ask - even the most experienced of our receptionists wouldn't feel confident they'd passed the details correctly on to the vet - they have no clinical training. They'd expect the client to ask the vet directly.
I have 3 suggestions/comments.
1) I can't remember ever seeing a dog with noted side effect to propalin, no matter how long they've been on it and despite what it says on the leaflet. I know that's no consolation if yours is the dog that has the side effects, but overall it safe to use at the right dose.
2) If the leaflet in the packet worries you ask about other treatments that might be available. I'm assuming she's being treated for incontinence, there's at least one common alternative to propalin, which frequently works ( and has a different, but smaller range of side effects).
3) Phone up and ask to speak to a partner/director/senior vet about your concerns. Repeat what you've said here. They'll be used to the questions about the frequency of the revisits and the cost, so don't be too surprised if you get stock answers about policy and law etc for them - perhaps concentrate on your clinical worries and service experience. If they don't give you a satisfactory response then maybe you should think about going elsewhere.
Colin
FBK, I knew it was real because she didn't leak wee.
Um, what's going on here? I have had years of bad service from vets and am now having to defend MY position?
A well-known medicine with well-publicised possible side effects yet in four years at several different practices have never been asked about some of them and infrequently asked about the others - and then only after my prompting them.
And you guys are having a go at me? Shouldn't this be the other way around?
Ooo, why so angry Ernie?
Not angry, just thought I would attempt to counter your endless tirades against vets. A profession which I have the utmost respect for.
BTW, I can't help feeling that the practice you are leaving, will all breath a collective sigh of relief........you sound like the nightmare client to me. If you don't mind me saying so.
Deadly - it could be any hat, although iirc, there was a particular dislike for trilbies.
My wife is a vet and just last night she was telling me about a survey of the profesion which showed that about 10% earn less than £10 an hour. That's what five years at unversity will get you. In part this may be down to the silly hours that some vets work. The same survey showed how many people work more than a 100 hour week. I think it may have been again about 10% and from memory the average working week was around the 50 hour mark.
The professions are made up of human beings, even the legal profession, guess what I do, and so there will be a variation in quality between vets. Some will be better than others and as said above if you are not happy with the service provided clients should go elsewhere. Talk to your vet though if you are not happy with the service you are getting. They may think you you are perfectly happy with what they are doing for you. If you are still not happy go elsewhere. The history wil be passed to your new vets which should help them pick up any ongoing treatment. If the service provided is sufficiently poor then complain to the RCVS. Yes, it is vets investigating vets but they do take complaints seriously.
My animals cost me a great deal - the vet charges a large amount, but I have insurance to ensure that I have a known exposure. Still have an excess of £70, and two daft dogs who like to jump through fences rather than over them.
If I add up the cost of food, insurance + excesses paid, vaccinations, dog walker (they need more walks per day than I can give, unfortunately), damaged furniture...... it's around £5000 per annum.
And I'd not change a thing.
Kasper the lurcher was at the vet yesterday for the second time in a month. He was badly bitten on his hindquarters a month ago and his vet cleaned him up and prescribed some antibios for a very reasonable amount - no stitches required.
Yesterday was just his booster jabs which he endured stoically and which set me back only £25. Westways vet in Houghton-Le-Spring if anyone cares.
Owning a dog is blooming expensive though when you sit and add it all up; tinned food, dried food, insurance, vet's bills, chews and treats, toys, etc etc.
Worth every penny though....
EDIT: wot he said - almost word for word 🙂
Karinofnine
ive had experience of a dobe on propalin, has missy been spayed?
take a look on [url= http://www.dobermannrehome.co.uk/forum/ ]DRA website (forum)[/url] and see if you can get a good vet locally by recommendation.
Kof9 - I wouldn't say people are having a go at you. If you read the posts, there's some very good advice re changing vets, changing medication or complaining to the relevant authorities if you feel you have been mistreated.
I am surprised though, that you seem very concerned re the potential side effects of a very safe drug and yet quite happily break UK and EU law re importation of drugs without authorization, and you are willing to risk using a product you cant possibly have know was genuine in order to save money.
Ernie - endless tirades? This is the first time I've ever brought this up. Nightmare client? Yes, I DO mind you saying.
FBK. I felt bad about getting it from abroad, after I got it I worried that it might not be genuine (it was) - although after having seen a tv programme, apparently no one can be sure any drugs are genuine. Anyhoo, I no longer obtain from abroad. It wasn't particularly to save money, more a protest at the empty gesture of going to a vet.
Goodness me! I am not complaining about the cost.
I am forced to get her checked. Since I am forced to go, should I not expect to have checks to see if she has developed any of the things it says on the leaflet that comes with the medicine?
Is that so unreasonable?
If yes, why is it?
I don't want to change medication. I want to have checks made and be reassured that she is ok on it. I have never been assured that it is safe, or that it is widely prescribed. I have a question about it that has been pooh-poohed by the last vet, and not answered properly. I will ask the new vet on Saturday.
IT'S NOT ABOUT THE CONSULTATION FEES.
Karin - You're right in almost all you say, but you'll not resolve it here. My suggestion is that you find a canine equivalent of STW and ask for vet recommendations which are local to you. Keep looking until you find a vet you and your dog are happy with.
there was a particular dislike for trilbies.
I'm going to train that into the new pup 🙂
propalin is safe and is very widely prescribed, this kind of incontinence is very common with Dobes in particular...
Yeah, I will keep looking. Maybe the new practice we are going to on Saturday will be The One! 🙂
Kof9, it seems to me your concern is mostly about communication.
Propalin is a very widely prescribed drug which is extremely safe and I cannot rememeber a dog having an adverse reaction to it in 15 years.
The package inserts can make scary reading for most drugs but some time spent reassuring you regarding this would hopefully have eased your concerns.
Again you are worried re your dogs possiblity of developing a heart problem. A discussion re the clinical signs that may develop or if you are really worried then a referral to a cardiologist for a scan might help allay your fears.
Dogs live for the day and don't worry about the future. They can teach us a lot about happiness that way.
soobalias, thank you, are you a vet? The few moments it would take a vet to at least say those things to me would have made so very much difference.
I have purposely stayed away from the internet on this subject as I didn't want to be distracted by well-meaning amateur opinions, hearsay and Chinese whispers re Propalin. I often research stuff to do with me, bikes, the car, the computer, but because Missy is so important (indeed, "precious" according to Ernie), I have left it entirely to the vet...
As stated, with my other animals I was happy with the treatment and advice I received. (Only had one complaint over a period of some 35-odd years).
A happy-ending vet story: I once took a hen to the vet. She had been sat on by the cockerel (euphemism, you know what it is that cockerels do) and his spur had ripped her side. She didn't have much skin left and what was there was necrotic and stunk.
Now, bear in mind this was a rural area, where hens are (usually treated as) commodities (not pets) and chicks with black marks can be bought for 50p from the chicken factory before they are gassed. I rang the vet and made an appointment. The receptionist asked if it was for one of the cats or the dog, I said no, it was for a chicken. So funny, a stunned silence, then "... a ... [i]chicken[/i]?" yes, a chicken. The vet was also surprised but anyway he filled a monster syringe with some luminous yellow liquid and injected it into Boss Chicken who didn't even flinch and went on to make a complete recovery. Brilliant.
(The bill came to enough to pay for a few dozen ex factory chicks but it was worth it).
Ok, totally off-topic now, so that will do from me on this one. Thanks all.
Kof9. Just a couple more comments now I'm back on a proper keyboard.
In relation to your concern re side effects. I would agree with the comments re propalin being a very safe drug. Whilst it is a sympathomimetic, it is quite specific and targetted in it's actions and, unless grossly overdosed, I have never seen any effects on the cardio-vascular system. Drug companies have to list any adverse effects seen during trials, no matter how infrequent and no matter what the circumstances.
I also agree that perhaps your current vet should have taken some more time to discuss Missy's individual needs with you and allay any concerns, especially if these are concerns you have mentioned in the past. Equally, the consultation has to be a 2 way exercise - I would hope that, if any dog I saw was showing signs of metabolic disease (many of which are obvious such as drinking excessively, vomiting, eating lots/nothing), the owner would mention that during the consultation.
My comments re online/foreign drugs still stand though -if an owner came to my practice having imported drugs from abroad, rightly or wrongly, that may well affect my willingness to go above and beyond to help them.
It sounds like you are doing the right thing by changing practices. I hope you get the answers you are looking for.
Yes, I DO mind you saying.
Well that's a bit of shame really then. Because you are slagging off a profession in general, and one practice in particular, and the vets concerning with your allegations are obviously not able to defend themselves on here. So expect to be challenged by someone who has a completely different opinion of the profession. And yes, on the evidence you have provided, you sound like a nightmare client to me.
.
My wife is a vet and just last night she was telling me about a survey of the profession which showed that about 10% earn less than £10 an hour.
One of the vets which I have used for the last 20 odd years is internationally renowned and one of Britain's foremost avian vets. And just about anyone who keeps exotic birds in the South East of England will have heard of him - if not used him.
He has over the years given an unfaltering commitment to my pets. And I have been able to phone him on his mobile any day and at any time. When he has been away abroad on international conventions/talks etc, he has told me that in case of an emergency I could send him a text message and he would reply.
I have long suspected that he has repeatedly undercharged me for treatment and medication - just a phone call to him would result in medication being popped in the post and sent first class to me. I have in front of me a bill which he sent the beginning of last month with a course of antibiotics, the total amount, which also includes a previous course of antibiotics, is for £16.50p. I remember thinking "that sounds ridiculously cheap". It was .... last month he was declared bankrupt. His website :
Quote :
[i]"I have struggled financially for many years, and fought hard to continue my business as an avian veterinarian, albeit now partially retired. Sadly I have been unable to resist crippling debts any longer, and on Thursday 4th November 2010 I was formally declared bankrupt".[/i]
It's a shame that he wasn't more of a hard-nosed businessman,and didn't charge me and his other clients more. As a result, we have lost a hard-working and dedicated vet with an almost unparalleled lifetime's experience and knowledge. I hope other vets don't allow themselves to become victims of simular circumstances......charge the ****ers what it's worth !
EL - that is indeed sad news but an unfortunate sign of the times.
It reminds me of a story a friend of mine told me last year. A rival company had closed down in the neighbouring village to him and several clients had come across to his printing business. One particularly stubborn gentleman couldn't understand why my friend wouldn't match the now bankrupt companies fees!
FBK, thanks. A little customer care/reassurance would have gone a long way! 🙂
BTW I have never posted any questions about Propalin on here (or anywhere else) specifically because I didn't want to 'steal' knowledge/time from a vet (rather than pay for it properly via a face to face consultation).
I look at my dog and think "Is she ok? Isn't she ok? Is her heart ok? Is she listless, or is she calm, what is listless anyway? Does she bark too much? Does barking at noises constitute over excitement? What is over excitement, is she stressed? Does she drink too much? What is too much? Has she got high blood pressure, is it too high, is it because we are at the vet and she is stressed? am I doing the right thing(s)" and so on, until my head explodes (not literally). She can't talk so I rely on you guys, if you ain't talking either it makes things difficult. Thanks for your time. (Where is your practice, anywhere near CR6?)