I was out to dinner with a party of Indian colleagues this week, two of them are Jay/Jain vegan (shouldn't eat anything that kills the plant or kills other organisms when harvested, typically root vegetables). One doesn't eat or drink anything between dusk and dawn so that kept his share of the bill down, and the other eats root vegetables apart from onion and garlic because they are classified as bad foods under the scriptures he follows. He ordered some dahl without onion and garlic which must have been grim.
The point of the story? I respected him for his lifestyle/religious choice and he didn't criticise me for mine.
we agreed that I only eat meat for pleasure (IE I don't biolically require it)- therefore I am hunting/carnivoring for pleasure, correct?
I think what we have here is an uncomfortable truth.
I'm kinda coming at it from the other side; one of the answers to the inevitable "but wwhhhyyyyy??" question is that I'm fortunate enough to live in a society where I don't need to eat meat to survive, and vegetarian alternatives are varied and plentiful. I don't want to eat meat, I think it's a revolting practice, and crucially [i]I don't have to.[/i] So the question for me really isn't "why?" but rather "why not?"
I'd never judge anyone for eating meat (with the caveat I mentioned earlier), but we're glossing over the fact that it's almost entirely for selfish reasons. And I'm cool with that, in so far as animals are less "important" than people, but it's not for me.
I do wonder idly whether a lot of meat consumption is habitual. "We've always done it that way." I would neither want nor expect society to turn vegetarian overnight, but I think it'd be nice if we moved away from this collective obsession that [i]every [/i]dish has to contain some sort of dead animal in it otherwise it's lacking in some way.
I used to get hangover breakfasts with a friend of mine of a weekend. Sometimes he'd order pork sausages, sometimes vegetarian ones, not because he'd made some sort of part-time vegetarian lifestyle choice but rather that he liked them and didn't want to eat the same thing every time. It's a healthy attitude to have I think. I've known people avoid vegetarian options precisely because they're vegetarian, like they can't eat them, which always struck me as a bit odd.
TL:DR
Anyone mentioned bacon yet?
^Of course they haven't. What a highly original and amusing thing to say!
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To keep things topical, here's some bacon! Or otherwise known as pigs. More intelligent than dogs yet for some reason people think that this is a good way to treat an animal for it's entire life, just to end up satisfying someone's selfish desire for two minutes.
We live in a weird world when the people who don't want any part to play in this inhumanity are the ones labelled as 'extreme'.
Look as a bit under done.
Ok, nobody mention it, I mentioned it once but I think I got away with it!
We live in a weird world when the people who don't want any part to play in this inhumanity are the ones labelled as 'extreme'.
As an aside. I would label the treatment as inhuman, cruel yes, but inhumanity no.
you monster ! 😛
I wish more people would be Vegan.
There'd be more meat for others who aren't.
There is a serious point here... we meat eaters should probably reduce our meat consumption and avoid the little piggies pictured above.
Did someone mention bacon?
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Fakeon. (-:
that is quite clearly Facon
Trying to work out what's "natural" about bacon seitan!
And where did this bacon obsession come from? I'm pretty sure it didn't exist 20 years ago.
I was vegetarian for a few years in the early 90s and the bacon "obsession" was a thing back then.
So you used to have morals but the finacial sector squeezed them all out of you 😉
I have no idea when i turned vegan you could get sizzles which was essentially a smoky bacon flavoured sosmix- powder mix in a packet. It was pretty rank and looked a bit like scottish sausage once mixed
no idea what bacon they did then as i never tried it and i dont remember any obsession - I am not part of the "scene" though
This was 1987 ish
I've tried quite a few meat free "bacon" offerings.
Shit, without fail.
I miss bacon.
There was a bacon-alike salmon product launched a couple of years ago but I've never seen it for sale.
(Yes, I do appreciate that vegans don't eat fish)
The only thing that I have found that has a similar textures and a bit of the taste of bacon is shiitake mushroom stalks, flattened, beaten, salted and then fried in olive oil. They have a similar texture to meat and a nice strong taste. It is not bacon, but close enough that the kids like it and thought it was meat first time they tried it.
some scientist has invented some weird thing that bleeds so it tastes like meat but i cannot find the link- apparently I can
http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2016/06/21/482322571/silicon-valley-s-bloody-plant-burger-smells-tastes-and-sizzles-like-meat
journo report of eating it- headline The Fake-Meat Burger So Realistic It Fooled My Entire Family article linky
http://www.bonappetit.com/entertaining-style/trends-news/article/impossible-burger-fake-meat
I think fake real meat has been on the telly box a year or so back. Very expensive at this stage but very interesting if it could be commercially viable.
Edit, think we'd may actually be talking about different things
its really not something i know anything about tbh i just saw a report on the guardian as I like to [s]break[/s]live up to stereotypes 😉
<only came on this thread to see what how excited JY was getting. !disappointed>
Have we mentioned onion bhajis yet?
Yes we have and i did not get it 😳
This has been a better discussion than usual
Yeh, the thing i was thinking of is cell culture meat.
$330k a burger
And where did this bacon obsession come from? I'm pretty sure it didn't exist 20 years ago.
It's a trope that all veggies are in denial and go to pieces at the prospect of a bacon buttie.
I think fake real meat has been on the telly box a year or so back
It's a really interesting question, in that if we can grow meat rather than killing animals for it, would veggies eat it?
Moreover, perhaps a more interesting question might be, would the carnivores stop eating animals in favour of it (assuming there's no compromise in taste / quality)?
It's not for me, but my reasons for being veggie aren't in the majority. I'd be interested to hear what both sides feel about lab meat.
There's this: http://www.seriouseats.com/2016/10/beyond-burger-impossible-burger-vegan-taste-test.html
It's a trope that all veggies are in denial and go to pieces at the prospect of a bacon buttie.
The trope seems to have grown with the internet, I suppose.
[quote=Cougar ]Moreover, perhaps a more interesting question might be, would the carnivores stop eating animals in favour of it?
It's not for me, but my reasons for being veggie aren't in the majority. I'd be interested to hear what both sides feel about lab meat.
Assuming it was proven as safe as farmed meat then if it tasted like, cooked like and had the texture of real meat then I can't think of a good reason I wouldn't switch to that (or even just include it in my variety of foods). However, while I can see that it might be possible to imitate some of the characteristics of farmed meat, after all, many of us find Quorn an acceptable substitute for mince, but, for example, bacon? I'm not convinced it would be possible to fabricate something that complex.
There's this
That was a really intriguing read, thank you.
The trope seems to have grown with the internet, I suppose.
That's true of all tropes I fear.
Assuming it was proven as safe as farmed meat then if it tasted like, cooked like and had the texture of real meat then I can't think of a good reason I wouldn't switch to that
Cool.
I'm not convinced it would be possible to fabricate something that complex.
Why is bacon more complex than other meats?
It's more complex than mince 🙂
It's not just the meat bit you'd need to get right. The flavour and texture of bacon is a combination of the meaty bits and the fat bits. Then there's folk that like it streaky, or crispy etc. A slice of gammon might be easier to fabricate.
Forget bacon, when the hell is someone going to make a fake doner kebab?
I only eat good meat, none of that intensive farming crap that doesn't even resemble meat. The way the worlds population is now and the way it's going it's just not sustainable to feed everyone on meat. I would rather eat a good vegetarian diet than a crap quality meat diet. Thankfully I don't need to and have the best of both worlds.
FWIW, the smell of bacon doesn't make me immediately want a bacon sarnie, in fact I never want a bacon sarnie, or bacon at any time, and the mere thought of a Full English makes me nauseous.
Liver? Eeeeewwwwww! Same goes for any offal, in fact I can't be arsed with most meat, but I'm more than happy to scoff a quality burger, a kebab from a man in a van after the pub, pepperoni snacks/pizza/pepperami and salami.
My first choice when eating out is chicken or fish/seafood, I like a good curry, or Chinese or sushi, and I've yet to be convinced by anyone that I should give up anything that I eat.
I've got to be 62 years of age eating what I do, because I enjoy the taste, I'm intrigued by some of these new alternatives and if they can be produced in large quantities cheaply and efficiently, without any environmental impact, then I'd be happy to eat them.
If survival dictated that if I wanted to eat meat to keep my protein intake up, and that meant catching, killing and processing animals, then I'm sure I could, but I'd prefer it to be done by someone who knows what they're doing so it's done properly and efficiently.
I woudl notin that if we can grow meat rather than killing animals for it, would veggies eat it?
10 years ago I think i would but the fake meats taste rank to me and the closer the texture gets to meat the less i like it
I suspect that is the result of 30 years meat free though and the minority view
[quote=Junkyard ]in that if we can grow meat rather than killing animals for it, would veggies eat it?I woudl not
10 years ago I think i would but the fake meats taste rank to me and the closer the texture gets to meat the less i like it
I suspect that is the result of 30 years meat free though and the minority view
My Missus is vegetarian and has often rejected meat substitute dishes because they are too meat-like.
10 years ago I think i would but the fake meats taste rank to me and the closer the texture gets to meat the less i like it
Well, to be fair you've almost certainly not tried cultured meat. Hard to know whether it would also be rank!
That said, you're taste are likely so predisposed to a [s]yoghurt knitters[/s] vegan diet you'd probaly still not like it.
Edit, wot scotroute said really.
The rankness comes because i seem to no longer like the taste or texture of meat
I suspect stuff like that is more for healthy veggies/meaties or vegans who do it for health reasons rather than an "ethical" vegan like me
re: bacon trope;
Has anyone else actually seen a veggie/vegan "broken" by bacon? I only have one data point, so cannot yet join in any generic bacon based LOLs based on some possibly mythical inherent bacon lust.
My missus is vegetarian but I'm not. She spends half her time in France and half here in England. When she's away we'll eat meat 3-4 times a week. When she's here we won't have meat in the house. It's not a problem as I tend to be more "creative" with cooking, but if she's here more than a couple of weeks I have to skulk off to the butcher for one of his pork pies and shovel it down at my favourite bench in the park.
I do feel healthier when I don't eat meat though.
Has anyone else actually seen a veggie/vegan "broken" by bacon?
Yes. One of my oldest friends was vegan for 20 years, as was his wife, and they raised their family as vegans.
One day his 14 year old son came home from school with a packet of rashers as he'd had meat at school and liked it. The the missus was still at work so he thought "Why not"...
My missus is vegetarian but I'm not. She spends half her time in France and half here in England. When she's away we'll eat meat 3-4 times a week. When she's here we won't have meat in the house. It's not a problem as I tend to be more "creative" with cooking, but if she's here more than a couple of weeks I have to skulk off to the butcher for one of his pork pies and shovel it down at my favourite bench in the park.
The problem there is not one of diet.
The problem there is not one of diet.
You're not wrong...
[quote=Cougar ]I used to get hangover breakfasts with a friend of mine of a weekend. Sometimes he'd order pork sausages, sometimes vegetarian ones, not because he'd made some sort of part-time vegetarian lifestyle choice but rather that he liked them and didn't want to eat the same thing every time. It's a healthy attitude to have I think. I've known people avoid vegetarian options precisely because they're vegetarian, like they can't eat them, which always struck me as a bit odd.
When I was flying a lot (there's another selfish thing), back in the days when they used to feed you on flights I ended up claiming to be vegetarian on flights as my perception was that you got better service and in general the food was better!
I can certainly live without meat, and will happily eat meals without it - admittedly a lot less so since we've had children, I guess because they've got accustomed to eating it and don't like meals without. To some extent it's actually a health thing - I used to have smoked meat in my sandwiches most days, but now more often than not I have cheese instead, it's probably a very tiny difference to my health, but there don't appear to be any downsides. It's a bit of an "I could give up any time I like", but before children I did sometimes do meat free months (fish a couple of times a week though).
Though that's all about eating meat, and this thread is supposedly about vegans. Which is an important point given there is a lot of animal cruelty involved in milk and egg production etc. I am certainly bothered about the animal cruelty involved in all of these things, but a horrible hypocrite as I'm clearly not sufficiently bothered. My perception is that fish isn't so bad from that perspective.
Oh and I suppose I need to mention it; whilst I like bacon I could live without it.
My perception is that fish isn't so bad from that perspective.
It's possibly worse. Hauled out of the sea and dumped in the hold to die slowly under a couple of tons of other fish...
