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What we, human's, do to other creatures to create you that 'natural' egg is an abomination we should be mortified to be party to.
May I kindly suggest you dont watch any of David Attenborough’s many programmes. In all cases you will watch animals eating other animals whilst they are still alive. Last week there was a section on how the offspring of one spider species that eat their parent alive so they can grow. At least we have the decency to kill animals before we eat them
... usually.
In other non-trolling news, how about some butter to go with those eggs?
https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/news/butter-carbon-bill-gates-batavia-illinois
Odd, I thought we'd left and could do what we wanted now
Oh wake up and smell the sausages !!. This was clearly implied as being WHILE we were part of the largest marketplace in the history of the world
Apologies, I thought you wrote "There were many traditional methods used in industry that were far more humane" and was being sarcastic. My bad there.
I haven't read the article as it's behind a paywall but I can't see how the mungo beans can't have gone through multiple processes to apparently vaguely resemble chicken eggs.
It's weird, you're Ok with taking beans*, processing them, feeding them to animals, letting them digest it, then slaughtering them, processing the meat, and then still don't call it processed.
Cooking up the same beans, condensing the resulting water and putting it through a high sheer mixer** is processed?
As a vegetarian I can obviously only dream of having the energy to perform those mental gymnastics 😂
In an ironic twist on the argument, B12, the carnivores gotcha vitamin because it's in meat but not veg, is only needed because everyone's diet is too processed and the 'natural' source of it would be bacteria in your gut that got there from unwashed veg 🤷
*80% of soy goes to animal feed, not fancy milk and tofu
**I'm just assuming it's a variation on aquafaba
Quick question for Vegans.
When my wife is cooking bacon I love the smell and it makes my mouth water with anticipation.
Do you get he same when someone mows their lawn?
how about some butter to go with those eggs?
Wow. Butter made from industrial waste! What a time to be alive. It's like something out of the Simpsons.
I read a "what if..." article in New Scientist several years ago. Their conclusion was that as of today (ie, when printed) there is insufficient arable-capable land mass to support a wholly vegetarian population. So as how evil we may or may not think using animals for food is, it is as far as I'm aware a necessary one.
I'm open minded to being proved wrong if you can find the source of that claim, but I'm also 100% sure that is utter bull****
It takes huge amounts of arable land just to grow the crops to feed to the animals so they can inefficiently extract the protein and turn it into meat.
Look back at wartime rationing for an illustration, the last time we had to be as close to self sufficient as possible, meat was rationed, dairy was rationed.
veg - not rationed
cereals - not rationed
bread - not rationed (although apparently the quality went downhill)
beans and pulses - not rationed
The only vegan items that were rationed were sugar and preserves (assuming pectin not gelatin).
cereals - not rationed
IWM reckons this was rationed. Although in a different way.
https://www.iwm.org.uk/history/what-you-need-to-know-about-rationing-in-the-second-world-war
It takes huge amounts of arable land just to grow the crops to feed to the animals so they can inefficiently extract the protein and turn it into meat.
Poultry and Pigs, yes, cattle, and Sheep particular, not so much.
Poultry and Pigs, yes, cattle, and Sheep particular, not so much.
Sheep are somewhat of an outlier as they do survive on otherwise unproductive land. Although you have to view that in the context of a relatively small industry it therefore responsible to the deforestation of large areas of the countryside. They still consume about 7.5% of the UK animal feed though.
Cattle on the other hand consume 37% the UK's animal feed. Ruminants (sheep and cattle) overall get about 25% of their food from feed. Of the remainder Poultry takes up about 32%, pigs about 15%.
Overall though just over half of the UK cereals production ends up in animal feed.
And I think (although the AHDB data isn't entirely clear on this) there's a gap in that analysis that beans and pulses aren't included. i.e. half the current arable land is currently used just for animal feed, and I think we import other feedstuffs on top of that.
My math's and interpretation was slightly out, i divided total feed by total cereal and didn't account for not all feed being cereal.
UK wheat and barley production is ~21,000,000 tones
UK beef production is ~900,000 tones.
UK animal feed accounts for about 6,000,000 tones wheat and barely, and 1,200,000 tones soya, 37% ends up in beef (assumed evenly distributed).
So for every 100g of beef (a metrically short changed quarter pounder) you need 44g of soya, and 240g cereals, and some other stuff like seed oils.
So roughly 1/3 of cereal arable land is producing animal feed, plus the grazing land. That's a lot of land you could be growing human food on.
Going by the WWF report, Beef in the UK is 79% grass fed, sheep 86%. I'll have a re-read see if it gives a breakdown, a chunk of the remaining 21% is attributed to "food industry by products.
So roughly 1/3 of cereal arable land is producing animal feed, plus the grazing land. That's a lot of land you could be growing human food on.
I mean yeh, I have made that point way up thread.
I'm open minded to being proved wrong if you can find the source of that claim, but I'm also 100% sure that is utter bull****
You may well be right.
I've told you my source, it was an article in the New Scientist magazine. My partner of the time bought it so it would have been, I don't know, maybe ten years ago? I read it whilst I was having a poo if that helps you any, perhaps even across a succession of visits.
What their sources were, and whether it was a diligently researched piece of investigative journalism or a puff piece to fill out a few pages, I have no idea.
Going by the WWF report, Beef in the UK is 79% grass fed, sheep 86%. I'll have a re-read see if it gives a breakdown, a chunk of the remaining 21% is attributed to "food industry by products.
I haven't read the article as it's behind a paywall but I can't see how the mungo beans can't have gone through multiple processes to apparently vaguely resemble chicken eggs.
It's weird, you're Ok with taking beans*, processing them, feeding them to animals, letting them digest it, then slaughtering them, processing the meat, and then still don't call it processed.
Cooking up the same beans, condensing the resulting water and putting it through a high sheer mixer** is processed?
As a vegetarian I can obviously only dream of having the energy to perform those mental gymnastics 😂
What a weird rant. It is obviously directed at me since you specifically quote me. How have you come to the conclusion that I am okay with feeding beans to. animals ? I haven't eaten meat for over 25 years.
I still stick to my comment that I can't see how the mung beans can't have gone through multiple processes to apparently vaguely resemble chicken eggs.
Beans and chicken eggs are clearly very different foods and to get one looking or tasting like the other must by definition require multiple processes.
Chrismac's comment with regards to eggs being natural, and ultra processed mung beans not, was perfectly reasonable imo, whatever cougar thinks.
Now whether ultra processed mung beans are a perfectly healthy alternative to chicken eggs is a whole different argument, but you can't deny the difference between the two.
The product is called Just Egg. Here is a list of ingredients from the website bestservedvegan
Based on that list I'm going to say it's ultra-processed.
May I kindly suggest you dont watch any of David Attenborough’s many programmes. In all cases you will watch animals eating other animals whilst they are still alive. Last week there was a section on how the offspring of one spider species that eat their parent alive so they can grow. At least we have the decency to kill animals before we eat them
It's good you look so high when you set your moral compass. Are your kids the same; are you constantly looking over your shoulder in case one of them gets a bit hungry? I mean, do you ever look at your sister and think....she's a bit of alright? If so, skim read Dr. John Fitzpatrick's 2021 paper on the subject and follow the findings (mating with relatives is surprisingly common in some species) and boom, rutting with your sister (or balls deep in your mum) is on the cards with no guilty conscious. I mean, some animals do it so it's good enough for you right?
Or......maybe consider looking further afield, or even internally, for your moral choices. For me it's a twofold thing. Firstly, I make little distinction between humans and the rest of animal life when it comes to respect. I choose to avoid exploitation and creating suffering for an animal in the same way I make choices to not inflict the same for my fellow mankind*. Many humans demonstrate speciesism in a lot of their decision making and judgements (how they treat their own dog or expect others to treat theirs and what they are prepared to accept to happen to a pig in order to have a cheap bacon sarnie for example) - that's something I elect not to do. Secondly, I attempt to separate need and want. I don't 'need' to exploit animals to ensure my own survival in the way my forebears probably needed to. To do so now is a conscious choice - you are putting your 'want' for a bacon sarnie ahead of the suffering of pigs required by modern farming practices to get it on your plate for a price you are prepared to pay. It's done at arm's length and the food chain sanitises it nicely for you so you don't need to think about it - but you are still making that conscious choice. There is no case you can make that it is a 'need'.
It's my belief that in 300 years we'll look back at how we take advantage of animals now very much in the same way we look back at humanity's use of slavery for millennia today. Which side of history do you want to be on?
*As stated previously - I know my life will not be free of impact and it's something I regret and look to minimise. Ignorance is no excuse but sometimes it takes some working on and constant adjustments.
The product is called Just Egg
You could definitely have ‘em under the trades descriptions act for that.
Using the same principles, here’s my latest new product I’m presently focus grouping ‘Just Sausage’…
It's my belief that in 300 years we'll look back at how we take advantage of animals now very much in the same way we look back at humanity's use of slavery for millennia today. Which side of history do you want to be on?
It’s equally as likely that the AI Death-bots who will be ruling over is with an iron fist by that point, high on old Andrew Tate implants, will have developed a taste for raw meat and will be harvesting us humans like highland cows, to lightly and eat with chips and a peppercorn sauce
Makes you think….
It's good you look so high when you set your moral compass. Are your kids the same; are you constantly looking over your shoulder in case one of them gets a bit hungry? I mean, do you ever look at your sister and think....she's a bit of alright? If so, skim read Dr. John Fitzpatrick's 2021 paper on the subject and follow the findings (mating with relatives is surprisingly common in some species) and boom, rutting with your sister (or balls deep in your mum) is on the cards with no guilty conscious. I mean, some animals do it so it's good enough for you right?
Er no is the answer to that one.
It's my belief that in 300 years we'll look back at how we take advantage of animals now very much in the same way we look back at humanity's use of slavery for millennia today. Which side of history do you want to be on?
You can believe what you like about what happens in 300 years. None of us will be around to know or care.
You can believe what you like about what happens in 300 years. None of us will be around to know or care.
Using the same principles, here’s my latest new product I’m presently focus grouping ‘Just Sausage’…
I assume you'll be taking a similar stand over turkey "sausages" which are completely bereft of pork?
I assume you'll be taking a similar stand over turkey "sausages" which are completely bereft of pork?
Who said that sausages have to be made out of pork?
If you can make eggs out of mungbeans, and famously triangles from a cow, then I can make sausages out of green beans and market them as ‘Just Sausage’ 😛
can make sausages out of green beans and market them as ‘Just Sausage’
Too right you can. You can do a lot with a sausage.....you should hear what Chrismac is considering doing with his little chipolata....
I'm off on a boat to film a pod of dolphins in a minute. Male dolphins are infamous for raping porpoises - not too fussy about the gender apparently. Any hole's a goal and all that. So Chris, if family are off limits there's always that. I mean other animals do it so....it all good right?
So roughly 1/3 of cereal arable land is producing animal feed, plus the grazing land. That's a lot of land you could be growing human food on.
But it is not just about how much arable land we have, and how much of that can be turned to produce food for us.
Weather plays a huge part - which some of you might have noticed is somewhat different from the past. Even this year its been warm sunshine, perhaps a bit humid spaced with periods of torrential rain. Which im pretty sure is not an ideal scenario when harvesting crops.
Looking at it by the numbers alone is a misleading half argument, because its not taking all aspects into account.
Looking at it by the numbers alone is a misleading half argument, because its not taking all aspects into account.
Too right. It's not taking into account all the plant based material imported to feed UK based animals for starters.
I think it's also important we don't get too little Englander about it - feeding humans is a global phenomenon and probably needs a global solution.
Even this year its been warm sunshine, perhaps a bit humid spaced with periods of torrential rain. Which im pretty sure is not an ideal scenario when harvesting crops
This is why, as in this case, science needs to provide the answers. We need to assess the new climate, deal with this new reality and alter our diets accordingly. I’m working on a way to make steak out of coconuts
Or......maybe consider looking further afield, or even internally, for your moral choices. For me it's a twofold thing. Firstly, I make little distinction between humans and the rest of animal life when it comes to respect. I choose to avoid exploitation and creating suffering for an animal in the same way I make choices to not inflict the same for my fellow mankind*.
...
*As stated previously - I know my life will not be free of impact and it's something I regret and look to minimise. Ignorance is no excuse but sometimes it takes some working on and constant adjustments.
What you're dancing around is that ultimately many decisions we make are a compromise. We all decide where our "moral compass" lies and then once that's decided then obviously everyone is wrong. When I drive somewhere, anyone slower than me is a doddery old fool who is under the feet and anyone faster is a psychopath who is surely going to cause a collision.
Add morals into the mix and you've got justification for whatever lifestyle choices you make, I expect few people consider themselves to be immoral (aside from those with Catholic Guilt inflicted upon them).
Many humans demonstrate speciesism in a lot of their decision making and judgements (how they treat their own dog or expect others to treat theirs and what they are prepared to accept to happen to a pig in order to have a cheap bacon sarnie for example) - that's something I elect not to do.
I'd have gone with "doublethink."
I've said this on previous threads but, what we eat (or don't) is largely cultural. If Tesco started selling kitten burgers and puppy steaks there would be a national outcry, yet no-one blinks about a leg of lamb or a cheeky KFC. Eating pork is perfectly natural to us but would be abhorrent to most Muslims. Many countries routinely eat dog, horse, rat. What's the difference, why do we eat what we eat? For many people I expect that it's simply what they were brought up with.
You're vegan; I don't think I could do that, aside from anything else my diet is restrictive enough as it is. Others are practically carnivores; I don't think I could do that either, the idea revolts me. Most people fall somewhere in between, that's their decision just as mine is mine. I could do better, I could do worse, I think I'm OK with that (but then, I'm bound to say that just like everyone else is).
Who said that sausages have to be made out of pork?
Who said they can't be made out of beans?
I know you're just being silly but there's a point to be had here in that there are plenty of people who would object to coconut milk being referred to as "milk." Oat milk is on shelves now as "oat drink" because people presumably were being misled into thinking that farmers were going around grain fields milking their crops. Maybe I should start a campaign to have alcohol-free beer relabelled as an isotonic carbonated barley beverage despite it somewhat curiously presenting a problem to absolutely no-one thus far.
Being clear about food labelling is a good thing, but ever-increasing pinhead-dancing in case someone accidentally buys a meat-free sausage (already isolated from real food over in the Meat Free section) is absurd. "Sausage" is a shape, kids roll Playdoh into sausages.
And that’s before you get into sausages that aren’t sausage-shaped?
Its s minefield!
Im quite sure a 'sausage' in this day and age can be anything.
Looked on wiki, and it pretty much just classes it as a tube that is filled with some sort of food.
Traditionally its meat, but fill it with veggies, etc and its still basically a sausage.
Sausage casings have also evolved to include people on a non meat diet, and are also now made from Cellulose(Plant fibres) or Fibrous which is like paper(as seen in salami etc)
Personally I refer lamb gut casings. They use pork gut, but I find that too thick and it becomes 'chewy' and hard to eat. Lamb are far thinner and imho a better casing.
Cellulose i really dont like. they arent as pliable as natural gut, so i always found them difficult to link by hand. Its a product really aimed at industrial production on a linking machine.
Then when you cook them they soften and partly dissolve.
But the basic premise is whichever type, they can be filled with foods suitable for a vegan or vegetarian or omnivore diet.
It's my belief that in 300 years we'll look back at how we take advantage of animals now very much in the same way we look back at humanity's use of slavery for millennia today.
Or we may be eating Soylent Green.
Many humans demonstrate speciesism in a lot of their decision making and judgements (how they treat their own dog or expect others to treat theirs and what they are prepared to accept to happen to a pig in order to have a cheap bacon sarnie for example)
This just popped up on Bluesky:
https://bsky.app/profile/clarkee.co.uk/post/3lw6p3xx4ck2l
all of you? I didn’t realise there was an entrance exam - is it like first communion? Do you need to dress up? Because I’ve definitely met a few “vegans” who are entirely unaware of where their food comes from, how it got produced or who owns the businesses selling them their diet but are happy to lecture others about their food choices. I’ve no issue with anyone making decisions about either including or excluding foods from their diet on health, ethical, moral or environmental grounds. But I think it’s perfectly reasonable for anyone to challenge a “mung bean concentrate” grown in Asia, shipped round the world, highly processed with multiple additives to look/taste like an animal by product to say “is that better?”, “would it be healthier not having it at all?”, “who is profiteering from people trying to do the right thing?”, “are the farmers paid fairly?”, “would getting some genuine free range eggs from a small farm be a good balance?”, and “does this make vegan food providers lazy about providing actually better options?”.
i only clicked this link because i thought someone had actually started making an egg with a white and a yolk. I am disappointed.
Oat (and Soy, Almond etc) milk is not marketed as milk because there are rules on what you can call milk. That might sound silly but if the rule was wet white stuff then Nestle, Coke etc would have found some synthetic milk to market as milk (perhaps blended with cows milk) to exploit the population. Same reason there’s minimum meat content to call something a pork sausage, why whisky has to be three yrs old at least etc. I’m sure that if someone started marking “plant” products because they were produced in a food processing plant but they contained animal derivatives that people would be upset. It’s not a conspiracy to outlaw other white liquids it’s a rule to protect the quality and integrity of the mainstream one.
Or we may be eating Soylent Green.
Which involves the following processes :
Corpse Treatment: Bodies are processed to remove hair and other external features.
Steam Bath: A steam bath is used to sterilize the remains.
Skinning: The skin is removed from the corpse.
Meat and Fat Extraction: The meat and fat are separated from the bones.
Bone Grinding: The bones are ground down to be used as a supplement in the final product.
Slime Creation: Two types of "slime" are created: pink slime (which uses heat and centrifugal force to separate meat from fat) and white slime (which involves grinding the leftovers and sieving them).
Colouring: Green food colouring is added to the mixture.
Condensing: The final product is condensed into wafers.
So definitely "ultra processed" although possibly nutritional and tasty
Ah sound a bit like Mechanically Separated Meat.
i only clicked this link because i thought someone had actually started making an egg with a white and a yolk. I am disappointed.
Well just hold on there. Home made Vegan hard boiled eggs
I'm always a bit confused as to why vegetarians/vegans would want to make something that looks like an animal product.
I'm always a bit confused as to why vegetarians/vegans would want to make something that looks like an animal product.
That’s always baffled me too. Mind you, the vegans I know - and I know quite a few - seem to exist on a diet largely consisting of chips.
I suppose this helps them get one step nearer to a crap version of the holy grail….
Because I’ve definitely met a few “vegans” who are entirely unaware of where their food comes from, how it got produced or who owns the businesses selling them their diet but are happy to lecture others about their food choices.
If you started a list of people matching that description with vegans (or "vegans"🤷♂️) in one column and meat-eaters in the next, the second column would be considerably longer than the first. Even shown as a percentage and only measuring the "happy to lecture others about their food choices" metric I expect they'd outstrip the vegans by some margin.
I think it’s perfectly reasonable for anyone to challenge a “mung bean concentrate”
I think it’s perfectly reasonable for anyone to challenge a "mung bean concentrate." What's less reasonable is to have already come to your conclusions before starting your investigation.
It’s not a conspiracy to outlaw other white liquids it’s a rule to protect the quality and integrity of the mainstream one.
These are not mutually exclusive scenarios. Remind me, what's the minimum concentration of cows' milk required in goats' milk? We can readily regulate what we're allowed to call without further qualification "milk," we did it with chocolate. Similarly yes, "pork sausages" absolutely should contain a clearly defined minimum amount of pork, but "sausages" can be whatever the heck you like. (You're wrong about whiskey, but that's a longer tangent.)
As for plant-based items containing meat, whataboutery aside, anyone with a restrictive diet or allergies is accustomed to checking the labelling on anything new before purchasing. Labelling in the UK is pretty tight (probably that meddling EU again), you can pick up say a can labelled "baked beans" and be pretty confident that it doesn't contain meat and in any case most would have a green (V) on the front to confirm this. The same is not always true of other locales, shopping in the US it'd be commonplace to pick up a can of beans and find it had bits of bacon in.
I'm always a bit confused as to why vegetarians/vegans would want to make something that looks like an animal product.
I'm a bit confused at your confusion when it's been explained Every. Single. Damn. Time. this conversation comes up.
I was going to ask a practical question at this point about how many mungbean eggs a French Vegan has for their breakfast, but the joke’s a non-starter as I doubt such a thing exists.
Edit: French Vegans, that is, not mungbean ‘eggs’.
Has anyone actually tried them/it?
Mungbean eggs, that is, not French Vegans