[Closed] Unrest in Saudi Arabia

Yeah lets keep supporting a dictatorship with one of the worlds worst human rights records so that we can have cheap petrol.

Yeah lets keep supporting a dictatorship with one of the worlds worst human rights records so that we can have cheap petrol

Amen.

war and world unrest = job security for me!!!!!

MSP, to cut argument short ... shouldn't we care about our elderly and children first? Instead of taking whatever BS government or media feeds us, I honestly don't see how caring about others without sorting your own house makes you feel good.

Democratic governments do not charge more for their oil ...... there is no difference between the price of democratic anti-US Venezuelan oil, and the price of anti-democratic pro-US Saudi oil - both are OPEC members.

In fact a democratic oil producing country is more likely to charge below the market price for its oil :

[url= http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4461946.stm ]Venezuela gives US cheap oil deal[/url]

A democratic (non-Saudi) Arabia would not charge more for its oil, Western oil companies however, would almost certainly cease to make huge profits (to the extent which they do now) from oil which doesn't even belong to them (how did Western oil companies become so wealthy, and make such huge profits, when the West has so little oil ?)

This is not the end of Western neocolonialism and US hegemony. It is not even the beginning of the end of Western neocolonialism and US hegemony. ..........but it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning.

democratic anti-US Venezuelan

😆 😆 😆

You think Venezuela is pro-US like Saudi Arabia ? .........you strange man 😕

democratic

Twerp.

Ah it's not "democratic" .........that's what so hysterically funny !

Twerp ? Well yes, I have to confess that it hadn't occurred to me that you would be making such an absurd and moronic suggestion.

[i]Elections in Venezuela

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Venezuela elects on a national level a head of state – a president – and a unicameral federal legislature. The President of Venezuela is elected for a six-year term by the people, and is eligible for re-election. The National Assembly (Asamblea Nacional) has 165 members (diputados), elected for five-year terms.

Venezuela has a multi-party system, with numerous parties.[/i]

Don't trust/believe Wikipedia ?

From the US Central Intelligence Agency Factbook :

[i]elections: president elected by popular vote for a six-year term (eligible for unlimited reelection); election last held on 3 December 2006 (next to be held in December 2012)

unicameral National Assembly or Asamblea Nacional (165 seats; members elected by popular vote to serve five-year terms; three seats reserved for the indigenous peoples of Venezuela)
elections: last held on 26 September 2010 (next to be held in 2015)
election results: percent of vote by party - pro-government 48.9%, opposition coalition 47.9%, other 3.2%; seats by party - pro-government 98, opposition 65, other 2
[/i]

Do you get your extensive knowledge of current events and global politics from the same source as Sarah Palin Woppit ? Can you see Russia from your house ?

To some nations -Democracy- is the future. There are plenty of others, where -Democracy- just doesn't make any sense.

What will be the cut off point (in price of oil) when people will change their habits?

Really wary of beginning of WW3.

If you don't have some doubts about Venezuelan democracy both before Chavez and now he's in power, you're not considering things hard enough.

If you don't have some doubts about Venezuelan democracy both before Chavez and now he's in power, you're not considering things hard enough.

TopTip for the CIA ?

EDIT : shouldn't "you're not considering things hard enough" be replaced with "not watching Fox News and reading the Daily Mail hard enough" ? 💡

This is not the end of Western neocolonialism and US hegemony. It is not even the beginning of the end of Western neocolonialism and US hegemony. ..........but it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning.

Well, as much as I'd like to agree with the sentiment, unless the new regimes decide to stand alone and denounce capitalism then it's at best a sideways movement economically with hopefully a democratic franchise for the people of North Africa/Arabian peninsula.

I just tried to research levels of inward Saudi investment into the US on a US.gov website, to get some idea of the likely position of the US in the situation - only to find figures for Saudi Arabia ' Suppressed to avoid disclosure of individual companies '.

Hmmmmmmm.

unless the new regimes decide to stand alone and denounce capitalism then it's at best a sideways movement economically

Not at all. The overthrow of capitalism is not prerequisite for achieving huge democratic and economic gains in favour of "the people".

Capitalism can exist a tyrannical form which condemns the mass of the people to live in abject poverty, or it can follow a more progressive model which provides real tangible gains for the people. Although I have to admit that throughout most of its 250 year history, capitalism has overwhelmingly followed a wholly undemocratic model.

EDIT : note, I consider social-democracy with its mixed economy and universal welfare provisions, to be a capitalist model - maybe you don't ?

dont let the facts get in the way of your polemic about Venezuela 🙄

shouldn't we care about our elderly and children first? Instead of taking whatever BS government or media feeds us, I honestly don't see how caring about others without sorting your own house makes you feel good

You may have fialed a compassion /empathy test there.
We are having it tough here but other people are starving to death, are denied basic human rights and live on less than $2 dollars a day. Perhpas we could do both get out neon con imperialist house in order and also help them out? See the cost of our wars v the cost of ending poverty for example.*
It is a bit like fixing your aga central heating whilst watching your neighbours mud hut crumble to dust and there children starving whilst explaining how you cant help and saying you feel no guilt about this.
* $465 to feed and educate every child for 5 years v $3000 billion dollars for Iraq war.
It is not impossible to do both if we make different choices despite what the selfish capitalist message says- think only of yourself and your problems

EDIT : note, I consider social-democracy with its mixed economy and universal welfare provision, to be a capitalist model - maybe you don't ?

Of course I agree, we live in such a state. The point I'm trying to make is that I don't see that a more libearal govt in these states will play any part in freeing them from US hegemony and neocolonialism as surely that's decided by being part of the global capitalist system, not by internal consititional rights.

Well I was suggesting with my quote stolen from Churchill that it would be a long and arduous road .........every journey begins with a single step.

But things are not now likely to remain quite as close as this in the region :

[img] [/img]
Two guys involved in the Middle-East oil business

currently based in saudi, house of saud are definitely worried about the 'day of rage' planned for 11/03.

i may disappear for a few days if they pull the plug on t'interweb

popstar - Member

To some nations -Democracy- is the future. There are plenty of others, where -Democracy- just doesn't make any sense.

As I understand it, what this means is "We're only in favour of democracy when it'll lead to someone we like being elected"

Red Ken (Cha Cha Cha) did a deal with Chavez for cheap fuel for t'buses here in London, and lowered bus fares, but then the lovely Boris went and scrapped the deal, and raised bus fares.

Proof (if it indeed were needed) that dealing with Socialist Democratic nations is actually better for us here in the UK.

With all the technologies we could be using why exactly are we still dependent on oil ❓

With all the technologies we could be using why exactly are we still dependent on oil

Because all the [i]technologies[/i] are dependent on oil for their manufacture, are crap compared to oil based alternatives and/or use more finite resources than oil. HTH.

What technologies are you refering to exactly?

which ones are you on about then?

I fail to give a damn.

I work for TfL and when Boris pulled down Venezualiang oil on moral grounds was a bit pissed off. Think it was time we stop pretending that our own house is perfect while waving Democracy and Liberation stick at others with all BS that comes from it. How on earth are we supposed to know how other people should live, while our own elderly struggle to meet ends. Never mind young generations or those broken families etc.

IMO uncle Sam tried to poke Mahmoud, while that one left hooked Al Saudi to slow down the rhythm of dynamics. Surprised he dealt with uprisings so quick, but then he's got experience.

Eh, what's this about London buses having their own privately imported diesel ?
How does/did that work ?

T'was a deal done between Ken and Hugo; we got cheap fuel, they got advisors to help with recycling, traffic management and some other stuff. The deal also meant that 250,000 Londoners on benefits got half-price bus fares too. This has also bin scrapped, I believe.

Nowt to do with 'morals'. All about political ideology. So, Londoners suffer increased fares because of Boris and the Tories.

Boris is nowt more than a self-serving Tory tosser. Out for his own and his cronies' gain, not for the people of London. The London Bike Hire Scheme was planned during Ken's regime, but Boris takes the credit. Scumbayg.

Only another year, then we can get Red Ken (Cha Cha Cha) back again.

Unless Bozza meets with an unfortunate end...

If deal went through LB would have a very good deal which would keep prices down. What's the difference between Venezualian oil and the other stolen one on morality grounds?

Farce with removing congestion charge and bendy buses will cost a lot too. It's just the subject isn't very much discussed these days. Guess Torries have a very good backing by the media.

But in defence of Bozza, Ken over did things when forced residents to pay congestion charge anyway. Even at reduced rate, IMO that was fatal.

No I think it was fair; you wanna live right in the middle of London, and drive a car around, then bloody well pay. No need for anyone but those with disabilities to drive a car in central London. And they're exempt anyway. it was all the posh (and wealthy) types in Kensington what kicked up a fuss. Tight arse ****ers. Happy to pollute in their Chelsea Tractors, but don't want to pay for it. selfish bastids. I'd charge them double.

What's the difference between Venezualian oil and the other stolen one on morality grounds?

One could argue the Venezuelan stuff is a good deal more 'ethical' than Middle Eastern oil. But Boris couldn't possibly have had London doing deals with a Socialist nation, so Londoners had to pick up the increased cost because of Tory ideology. Great.

If deal went through

😕 The deal [u]did[/u] 'go through'. It gave TFL an extra £16 million (until Johnson stopped it) which was used to offer half price travel to a quarter of a million Londoners on income support.