Doesn’t bode well for the young generation overthrowing Putin given he should have access to non Russian news.
Regarding the gymnast - like all elite Russian sports people the amount of time and effort they devote in the name of the country, they're inevitably products of the state. There was a documentary on it once where a massive blond Russian robot-boxer fought this sound guy from the USA. It looked like the US guy didn't stand a chance but he prevailed.
Putin has already inferred punishment will be forthcoming for Britain – so the last thing we want having limited travel for Russian citizens e.g. by bans on flights, is to allow Russian agents to blend into thousands of innocent refugees from Ukraine.
Pretty sure that the Russian FSB could provide someone with a convincingly fake Ukrainian passport if they wanted. Or a passport for literally any other country.
I can’t be the only one who finds the sight of him being applauded by British MPs incredibly nauseating
They are doing absolutely nothing to help him or Ukraine and a lot them got where they are funded by dirty Russian money, not least the Prime Minister himself
As a spectacle, Boris Johnson’s speech afterwards, basking in the reflected glory, was absolutely sickening
https://twitter.com/b_judah/status/1499823048005926919
https://twitter.com/OzKaterji/status/1500927139570401283
"I can’t be the only one who finds the sight of him being applauded by British MPs incredibly nauseating"
I can't even watch them. I'm letting others on here do the dirty work for me and report back.
"Pretty sure that the Russian FSB could provide someone with a convincingly fake Ukrainian passport if they wanted."
No need, We've got a fast track passport procedure already in place for certain Russians. They're probably already here.
But you might end up with a Wagner mercenary.
Worth noting that Johnson is an easy lever to pull if you're trying to leverage the EU and NATO into doing more. I bet if you ask them they'd even speak well of our thick as pork poo foreign secretary. I would be the same in their position.
Yeah, probably not an opportune moment to start a discussion about Tory Party Funding or the 18 months the Oligarchs have been granted to get their money and assets out of the UK
McDonald's has closed all 850 if its stores in Russia
This is, in some ways, quite poignant- I remember as a kid the first McD's opening in Russia and this as a potent symbol of the thawing of the cold war and pulling aside the iron curtain
"we need to help our own people before we can help other people"
And then they go and vote Tory which means not helping anyone.
In another side note, I also remember an old adage that no two countries with a McD's outlet had ever been in armed conflict with each other- I guess the Russian-Ukraine war might have put an end to that too
McDonald’s has closed all 850 if its stores in Russia
Public pressure, and Ukraine's ability to mobilise it, is amazing 🙂
The Daily Mash summarised this attitude perfectly a few years ago…
We need to look after our own first, say people who would never help anyone
This is brilliant! It def needs to be shared more
@somafunk
Good podcast released last week by Rory Stewart & Alastair Campbell
Can’t copy the link, but it’s called The rest is politics and was indeed very good- just had a listen this evening.
Worth noting that Johnson is an easy lever to pull if you’re trying to leverage the EU and NATO into doing more.
Yep, reflect a bit of Churchill ack at him and you've got him roaring on his way to Brussels. why didn't Zelensky think of that? Oh, wait...
This is, in some ways, quite poignant- I remember as a kid the first McD’s opening in Russia and this as a potent symbol of the thawing of the cold war and pulling aside the iron curtain
Yep. Now there's no MacDonalds, you can't buy Levi's, the ruble isn't worth shit and the only news is on state-run channels. It's the USSR in the 80s all over again. Quite a remarkable achievement for 2 weeks.
Incidentally, the 1980s was when I watched the above-mentioned documentary about the big blond russian boxer (baddie) and the cool American superhero guy. At the cinema! It was exciting! I wonder if we'll get another sequel now?
Seems this is finally happening. I hope they have the pilots to fly them. Could make a big difference. Confirmation direct from the Polish government.
https://twitter.com/militaryhistori/status/1501275644075732997?s=20&t=bjkdghZ0q7Qyog4fr5Excw
I just saw that. It made me look up the F16 on wiki and see that the first F16 flight was 48 years ago 😳
It worries me that THAT ^ is WW3 right their - a NATO state providing offensive arms from a NATO airbase.
I'm moving the family downstairs under the table covered with white sheets
Yep. Now there’s no MacDonalds, you can’t buy Levi’s, the ruble isn’t worth shit and the only news is on state-run channels. It’s the USSR in the 80s all over again. Quite a remarkable achievement for 2 weeks.
I know, right?!?
It worries me that THAT ^ is WW3 right their – a NATO state providing offensive arms from a NATO airbase.
Dozens of countries, NATO and otherwise have openly been supplying arms to Ukraine for ages, I don't see how this is much different. Russia is pretty free and easy when is comes to selling weapons, including fast jets to all and sundry around the world. Hell these Polish supplied aircraft are Russian made! There's a certain poetic justice to that. I'd love it if they happened to arrive with some anti ship missiles to chuck at the Russian amphibious assault ships loitering in the Black sea.
Perhaps the Polish are thinking that spare parts may be hard to come by soon so they may as well grab a load of shiny new US jets!
I don’t see how this is much different.
Lets see what Vlad says, but a whole fairly modern Air Force feels very different than 1000 pistols to me.
Yep. Now there’s no MacDonalds, you can’t buy Levi’s, the ruble isn’t worth shit and the only news is on state-run channels. It’s the USSR in the 80s all over again. Quite a remarkable achievement for 2 weeks.
Trabant order books to open again soon - first cars to be delivered by 2032.
Seems this is finally happening. I hope they have the pilots to fly them. Could make a big difference.
I think this is to do with Poland using aircraft to defend itself in the event Russia invades Poland,rather than agreeing to start off in a no fly zone scenario which would escalate things into a NATO Versus Russia war. As that could lead to catastrophic consequences for everyone.
I think this is NATO bolstering its deference in the former Soviet states. Sitting NATO/whomever forces directly on the border so any attempted incursion means Russia would be forced to engage NATO first. I don't see the Russians asking. Mind if you move back a bit while we invade. If they try to invade, then its NATO they come into conflict with first. And we end up in a hopefully conversational war directly against Russian troops. Of course its likely NATO will flatten Russia troops, and where we go from there doesn't bear thinking about. Faced with defeat Russia might then opt for nuclear strikes.
Yep. Now there’s no MacDonalds, you can’t buy Levi’s, the ruble isn’t worth shit and the only news is on state-run channels. It’s the USSR in the 80s all over again. Quite a remarkable achievement for 2 weeks.
Are we still of the opinion that Russia is bogged down in a mire of its own making, or are they grinding out progress through sheer cannon fodder and bloody mindedness?
The Russian economy might be back to the 80s, but without their fossil fuels we'll be back to the 70s and 3 day weeks soon enough 😉
Has there been a run on candles yet? Might stock up.
Have Russia said what exports they are banning & to who yet?
Are we still of the opinion that Russia is bogged down in a mire of its own making, or are they grinding out progress through sheer cannon fodder and bloody mindedness?
Just as long as it takes to encircle the cities they want then ten miles out set up artillery and destroy them at safe distance. Bomb the occupants into submission. So i think when they achieve their encirclement we can expect to see these cities utterly flattened.
Horrifying things to come should then manage it.
matt_outandabout
Full Member
Are we still of the opinion that Russia is bogged down in a mire of its own making, or are they grinding out progress through sheer cannon fodder and bloody mindedness?
Think they are gearing up for an offensive on Kyiv, next 3-5 days should probably tell us if they are bogged down or if they've been re-organising.
dantsw13
Free Member
Have Russia said what exports they are banning & to who yet?
They are threatening to turn off the gas supply to the EU and that effects us in the UK too of course.
It's going to hurt Russia as much if not more than the uk/ EU if they do though.
It's yet another sign of their desperation.
They are organising themselves yes. In one of the vids they talk about them building bases and hospitals and stuff.
Polish aircraft, refurbished in Ramstein, Germany.
Ukraine, Migs Du Hast...
Germany has changed so much in such a short time it's incredible. They turned the constitution around to supply lethal aid which is unheard of since ww 2. Then this with the planes.
Just as long as it takes to encircle the cities they want then ten miles out set up artillery and destroy them at safe distance. Bomb the occupants into submission. So i think when they achieve their encirclement we can expect to see these cities utterly flattened.
Horrifying things to come should then manage it.
Unfortunately this seems to be pretty much the size of it
No different from supplying 15,000 antitank missiles
It worries me that THAT ^ is WW3 right their – a NATO state providing offensive arms from a NATO airbase.
Migs are great but easy to counter woth modern battlefield anti aircraft defense systems
What the UA needs are there own mlrs systems. The tactics the Russians appear to be doing is setting up heavy artillery or grads around 30 to 40km out of town
Then just randomly lobbing munitions into the city with very little in the way of returning fire.
I believe a radar anti artillery system exists which plots where the rounds are from and calculates the grid. Drone, satellite or human intel could do the same.
Sitting 30 to 40km out gives a huge circle to try to defend in numbers, tanks pr self propelled guns dont tend to have the range required.
Whoever takes over in Russia after Putin has gone. Just has to withdraw all troops. We will fall over our selves to patch up issues. The gas and oil will flow and even after paying for a cheap rebuild. The leader will make a fortune. I'm of to learn some russian.
No different from supplying 15,0000 antitank missiles
In whose eyes? I'm pretty sure the madman who started all this will see this as a significant step-up....
I'm presuming those aircraft won't be operating out of Germany or Poland though....
Will they be operating out of Ramstein or is that just where the Ukrainians go to collect them? World of difference there.
Someone a few pages back was discussing how long it would take them to get anywhere from Poland, never mind Germany. Fine for a bombing run against a static target, hopeless for engaging Russian aircraft when they show up, they would need to be stationed much closer.
[Edit] beaten to it
They are threatening to turn off the gas supply to the EU and that effects us in the UK too of course.
Just in time for spring.
How many planes are there? 16? 20?
The tactics the Russians appear to be doing is setting up heavy artillery or grads around 30 to 40km out of town
Info from a recent vid has the range of the Russian mobile artillery at 20km and their rocket pods at 22km. 20km is about 12 miles.
Wikipedia says they have a range of 890miles, or 1,300 with a drop tank.
They will have to be moved closer, presumably into Ukraine.
Also Wikipedia, the Polish airforce have 27 of them. Reuters is saying 'all' so presumably 27 unless there are any not operational at present.
For context that is more than the number of F35s the UK has.
Will they be operating out of Ramstein or is that just where the Ukrainians go to collect them?
My understanding was the Ukrainians are picking them up and flying them out their own bases. Anything else is direct NATO action.
Surely the issue for Ukrainian AF will be pilots rather than planes.??
Anyway 170,000 antitank weapons from America alone
That's more than enough to blow up every Russian tank in n Ukraine 10x over!
https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status/1501303979153711108?t=Q0VghdAUYO3XkeYDtRss1A&s=19
Russian cruise missles can hit anywhere in Ukraine?
https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1500539936671477763?t=YE2_dQJ1JqnlUubULKlUzQ&s=19
Yes, but have they got enough of them?
Just as long as it takes to encircle the cities they want then ten miles out set up artillery and destroy them at safe distance. Bomb the occupants into submission.
Before this all kicked off they interviewed a former senior military guy who had witnessed it as part of the UN peacekeeping mission in the former Yugoslavia and he speculated that the Russians would do to Kyiv exactly what the Serbs did to Sarajevo.
The order there had been to ‘bomb them to the edge of madness’
Isn’t that exactly what the Russians have done in Chechnya and Syria?
This is going to be absolutely horrible to witness, but I agree with you that this is what that 40 mile convoy is there to do. They’re in for the long haul and will just sit outside the cities and reduce them to rubble.
I just never thought I’d see this on this scale in my lifetime. It still feels surreal
God help those who can’t get out! This is absolute insanity you thought, or at least hoped was from some bygone era that we would never ever see again
$90m state of the art Russian ship taken out by soviet era artillery truck
Yesterday a retired postman shot down a 2010 generation fighter jet using an early-80s shoulder-fired rocket.
I’m wondering what people would accept as a cost of living hike. Petrol and diesel at £3 /l, gas at £6/ therm making the winter fuel cap around about £6k, bread at £3 a loaf and the rest of the weekly did shop also doubled?
What does not accepting mean? Protesting (hope you don't get jailed...) but what do you expect the government to do? Basically comes down to reallocating budgets, borrowing more, or taking money from some people to give to others. Potential things we could do right now about the food situation - drop subsidies for unplanted land, prohibit the use of certain crops as animal feed.
or groups/classes of people within our own countries who have for whatever reason not flourished to the same extent during those years of stability. Those people have less to lose and more to gain – the stupidity of the lucky is spending years resisting “the rest” catching up, simply making it more likely that one day they flip against us
Brexit was chapter 1 of that.
Have we done the 20yr Russian athlete displaying the Z symbol on the podium yet at the Qatar Apparatus World Cup?
Or the retail fuel truck driver in Russia with "Z" painted on the cap, pulling up at a station and promptly getting dragged out of his cab and beaten.
Just as long as it takes to encircle the cities they want then ten miles out set up artillery and destroy them at safe distance. Bomb the occupants into submission.
Yes. People were saying a week ago that the Ukrainians and Zelensky wouldn't capitulate, but my take, which some disagreed with:
Doesn’t there come a point where a population will just accept whatever they must, to stop the bombs/rockets/shells flying into their neighborhood? I don’t think many of us would stick with our “principles and values” very long, certainly not all the way until the place ends up like Grozny.
The Russians know it works, they've seen it and done it themselves before.
Surely MORE McDonalds, Coke, Pepsi, KFC, Burger King and PizzaHut all over Russia, every single village and town, would piss him off more?
I see ITV was speculating on what Putin would say avoid those jets "gifted" from Poland vid the US.
No need surely?
"Act of war...bla, blah, nukes, blah blah, retaliation, nukes...."
Another day another threat. Which is the point. Once you've threatened the ultimate punishment on an adversary, the world and yourself and nothing happens... where do you go from there?
Yes, there is a threat, of course there is but its obvious that the West isn't backing down in their support of Ukraine. The line has been drawn and there is no going back now or this guy will never stop.
ElShalimo
Full Member
How many planes are there? 16? 20?
23, not really enough to make a dent.
This is the current Ukrainian air force. Or was, not sure how much of it it is still intact?
[img] 
[/img]
Do the ex-Polish MIGs have ground attack capability? Wondering if they could be used to take out artillery, or could only provide air superiority.
I assume they've also been updated to support NATO standards, but I guess that shouldn't cause too much of an issue for Ukrainian pilots, and I'm sure people much more knowledgeable than me have worked out the finer details.
Putin would do this again if he wins, sanctions should only be ended when Putin is replaced. Of course I'm not being bombed so am not experiencing the fear.
binners
Full MemberI just never thought I’d see this on this scale in my lifetime. It still feels surreal
Is this the first time you've turned on the news in 40 years?
Is this the first time you’ve turned on the news in 40 years?
There’s a pretty ****ing big difference between proxy wars between nuclear-armed superpowers that they’ve been farming out to surrogates for decades and an ACTUAL war between nuclear-armed superpowers
And is anyone naive/stupid enough to believe that’s not we’re looking down the barrel of at the moment?
This is a completely different level in an end-of-the-world sort of way
^^ I agree and was just about to post similar. I can't think of a war such as this in the last 40 years where the stakes are so huge.
binners
Full Member
This is a completely different level in an end-of-the-world sort of way
Well, It isn't, but crack on.
Bugger..
See you all in the next life…
Well, It isn’t, but crack on
Ok then.., Can you give us a comprehensive list of any armed conflicts that even had the remotest potential to rapidly snowball into world war 3 over the last 40 years then?
Correct me if I’m wrong but Iraq or Afghanistan or Syria were hardly ever likely to end up with Russia and NATO going toe-to-toe and waving nuclear threats around, were they?
Did I miss any others that were?
Feel free to educate me in however patronising a manner as you judge applicable…
See you all in the next life…
Did nobody tell you .... 😯
.
Anyway, the point of anything should anything happen is to survive. So this time next year or sooner you might be sitting in your homemade door shelter looking at the dog with a wonder how many pints of stew you can get out a dog.
Those with cats fair slightly better as there might not be as much eating, but cats are probably more succulent.
binners
Full Member
Well, It isn’t, but crack onOk then.., Can you give us a comprehensive list of any armed conflicts that even had the remotest potential to rapidly snowball into world war 3 over the last 40 years then?
Can you explain how this turns into WW3 when NATO has no intention of engaging Russia directly? And Russia has no intention of engaging NATO directly?
Is this the first time you’ve turned on the news in 40 years?
binners
Full Member
And is anyone naive/stupid enough to believe that’s not we’re looking down the barrel of at the moment?This is a completely different level in an end-of-the-world sort of way
Well, It isn’t, but crack on.
You're right. its not 40 years. this is the biggest shit going down for 60 years!
I’m going 80’s retro
And Russia has no intention of engaging NATO directly?
Vlad told you that did he?
stgeorge
Free Member
And Russia has no intention of engaging NATO directly?Vlad told you that did he?
Phoned me, aye.
I find it amazing that a leader of an invaded country can address both the Houses of Parliament here and the seats of government elsewhere, from his bunker in Kyiv (or wherever he is). It’s incredible stuff.
Welcome to the internet, circa last century. GLHF
Can you explain how this turns into WW3 when NATO has no intention of engaging Russia directly? And Russia has no intention of engaging NATO directly?
1. Glad you’ve got the inside line from both sides. Clearly you’re some kind of James Bond character
2. The law of unintended consequences is now at a level I’ve never seen in my lifetime
**** gas prices and your wallet. A whole nation is being razed.
I can't see this stopping until other nations step in and start taking the fight to Russia. Ukraine in their own can only hang in for so long.
If Russia take Ukraine they'll be emboldened and start gearing up for their next territorial claim.
I think if the west/Europe took the fight to Russia then China won't be quite so bolshy. They'll see that the world is serious.
I can't see the sanctions against Russia and support of Ukraine through weapons doing anything other than prolonging the suffering of those populations. If we want this to end then there needs to be some collective suffering.
In the past when people like Krushchev or Leonid Brezhnev were in power at least there was a politburo to wrestle the big red button off him, but you get the feeling Putin is isolated and being a rat will hit out when cornered.
Phoned me, aye.
Well, next time he calls, your reply should be along the lines of "Russian President, go f""K yourself"
collective suffering.
On a scale not seen since 1945 most likely..
binners
Full Member2. The law of unintended consequences is now at a level I’ve never seen in my lifetime
we all thought it when then first started, shit, what's going to happen here then. But as this continues, it's pretty apparent, this is all just about Ukrainians getting the life bombed out of them.
All the while, we are fortifying NATO borders, increasing military spending, giving Ukraine a few old Migs while Poland's airforce get's a bit of an upgrade.
That's nice and all, but it's Ukraine that is the issue here, the imagined fears of everyone outside Ukraine is hyperbole.
The US not so keen on the Polish idea - not hard to see why.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/08/poland-mig-29-jets-us-ukraine