"The rest of Europe have agreed to take all Ukrainian refugees without them having to claim asylum."
Has Pritti Patel been citing this as a Brexit benefit?
Good to see Switzerland thinking about getting off the fence.
So it's '...very probable' they will sanction Russia and freeze assets when they meet on Monday.
Why not prioritise this - emergency meeting today with immediate announcement?
How much do Russians know about the wealth of oligarchs and industrial scale kleptocracy carried out by the ruling elite?
Not much, I suspect, and nothing like enough; how will they react when they find out about that and vlad being richest person on earth?
That money should have been used to improve Russian society and the lives of it's citizens.
There were multiple reasons for Khrushchev's sudden downfall. It was not a coup, because it followed the Central Committee procedures for naming leadership that Khrushchev had himself introduced. As William Tompson has noted, there were no show trials, no ritual attacks, no public confessions, and no executions.[270] For most members of the Central Committee, there was growing annoyance with his arbitrary decision-making and lack of collegiality. They complained about the unwieldy bureaucracy that Khrushchev had fostered. These bureaucrats were now making the real decisions leaving the Party much less important, especially when Khrushchev circumvented local party leaders with his own specialized troubleshooters. Many were angry with his high-handed disregard for Central Committee procedures, including those he himself had been responsible for introducing. Foreign policy issues were not a major factor in his removal because the leadership agreed with his policies. The military was not involved in the removal but the KGB was a key center of opposition. Agriculture was his signature field and the glaring failure of massive efforts to improve agriculture was the most serious domestic issue, and resulted in hostile public opinion regarding food shortages.[271] In the end Khrushchev was too old and tired, and paid less and less attention to maintaining his political base, while his enemies carefully and systematically assembled their irresistible coalition in the Party's Central Committee.[272][273]
The rest of Europe have agreed to take all Ukrainian refugees without them having to claim asylum.
Meanwhile the UK won’t even offer a realistic route to a visa for Ukrainians with British connections. This is a national disgrace.
How much do Russians know about the wealth of oligarchs and industrial scale kleptocracy carried out by the ruling elite?
Probably more than you’d expect, and there was a suggestion that these actions won’t be that unpopular with the Russian in the street.
I see the EU is banning RT for promoting 'misinformation'.
On the face of it, this may seem reasonable, but I'm very suspicious of the state (or any form of power) appointing itself as the supreme arbitrator of truth in this way. The idea that the state can keep us safe by banning lies is for simpletons. This is very much an authoritarian move in keeping with the post-Trump era where liberal people have traded principles for sides.
I see the EU is banning RT for promoting ‘misinformation’.
On the face of it, this may seem reasonable, but I’m very suspicious of the state (or any form of power) appointing itself as the supreme arbitrator of truth in this way. The idea that the state can keep us safe by banning lies is for simpletons. This is very much an authoritarian move in keeping with the post-Trump era where liberal people have traded principles for sides.
Perhaps and I'd normally agree with that, however we are in a crisis state right now and misinformation carries too high a danger to allow it to go unchecked.
however we are in a crisis state
I'd prefer to have a very high bar indeed for constitutes a 'crisis'. WW2, for example, would probably qualify. This not so much.
After all, if you abandon liberal principles under any form of stress then they don't mean much.
Perhaps and I’d normally agree with that, however we are in a crisis state right now and misinformation carries too high a danger to allow it to go unchecked.
This.
Desperate times, desperate measures. Blocking "enemy" misinformation intended to support and justify the invasion of a democratic country seems reasonable to me.
Edit
I’d prefer to have a very high bar indeed for constitutes a ‘crisis’. WW2, for example, would probably qualify. This not so much.
We are a madmans wish away from WW3.
Not going to lose too much sleep about restricting the state controlled media mouthpiece of a dictatorship which has just invaded a European sovereign state.
Tractor has large Z on it, denoting Russian tops from the North, AFAIK.
RT is not alternative news it is simply propaganda. Ban it.
This is every bit as big a crisis as we faced in 1939, with the consequences potentially even more catastrophic if one wrong move is made.
Anyone else noticed that the Russian-Ukrainian talks are going to happen in Pripyat?
That Pripyat.
I am slightly concerned that a lot of information we are getting is (understandably) anti-Russian. There is a lot of propaganda going on at the moment & I think we need to be aware what the first casualty of war is. I don’t think we have enough information to say that the Russian invasion is going all that badly. After all, it’s only been 2 days or so and they have already surrounded the enemy capital.. it took Hitler over a month to take Paris at that was considered to be an incredible feat of lightning war. Ukraine is larger than France I believe.
RT is not alternative news it is simply propaganda. Ban it.
Many would say the same about CNN.
"This is very much an authoritarian move in keeping with the post-Trump era where liberal people have traded principles for sides."
I know which side I'm on...
@leffeboy Couldn’t hurt to deliberately employ and embrace some disruptors/challengers in government, doubt it would make things any less inspiring!
We tried that already no? Chap by the name of Cummings. Didn't end well iirc. Not that the current lot couldn't use some inspiration/expertise/competence
What's the purpose of banning RT?
@funkrodent maybe we try ones the genuinely want the best for the country and its people, rather than themselves and satisfying their own narcissism?
And yeah, some remotely competent MPs and an opposition that aren't all ****ing space cadets. 🙂
How could Putin bow out?
How did Hitler "bow out"...? There's not very much reading between the lines going on here tonight! 🤷🏻♂️
I didn't literally mean take a step down and leave someone else to carry on the battle... 😂
The Chechens were sent in to be a modern day einsatzgruppen, (Nazi death squad).
I'd argue even more barbaric, and less calculated...
i_scoff_cake
Free Member
I see the EU is banning RT for promoting ‘misinformation’.
As someone who only recently even bothered to look at RT it was a really startling experience. I never expected it to be so utterly propagandist. There really is no need to put quotes around "misinformation", there just isn't.
It doesn't even qualify as a news channel. Ban it, not just for now but until there is a total regime change in Russia. If, after that, it at least has a semblance of balance, then reinstate it.
Re RT, which is why the defence and veteran community rips into the likes of Trevor Coult for going on there spouting his bullshit.
Probably a good way to get yourself on a watch list.
“Russia Today and Sputnik, as well as their subsidiaries, will no longer be able to spread their lies to justify Putin’s war and to sow division in our union. So we are developing tools to ban their toxic and harmful disinformation in Europe.”
Why don't they go the whole hog and get rid of Fox News, The Daily Mail, The Sun, The Express, etc?
Apologies for the poor quality reporting of the Majorca bulletin, I wonder how many other russian oligarchs employ ukranians
Just watched the Netflix doc that @Binners linked to a couple of pages back about the Maidan protest of 2013-14. Very good context for a lot of what we are now seeing, with the closing credits mentioning Crimea and the Donbas.
I would recommend spending (a difficult) 90 mins watching it for anyone interested in the situation.
If all parties want to prevent further escalation of the war, I am afraid the only way is to split Ukraine into two. i.e. EU Ukraine (West) and Russian Ukraine (East). Then let the citizen move around. The west really needs to let Putin keeps his buffer zone and face. All parties really need to talk. Unfortunately for Ukrainians this will not go down well but at least they will have peace for a while.
If the NATO/EU pushes Putin into a tight corner he will bite back with all his might coz he has all to lose. He will take as many down with him as possible. If Putin is toppled, China CCP and North Korea etc will be next and they don't want that. Therefore, if there is any possibility Putin is not going to be in charged of Russia, I am certain the 2nd front will be opened with Taiwan. At the moment, China CCP is Russia's backup while EU's backup is America.
Sources from the East also indicated that Biden's administration wanted to deescalate the war (no stomach for war) and on numerous occasions contacted China CCP to broker a peace, which China CCP sees as a weak point. The sly Chinese CCP just sits there watching for now knowing that if America/EU is sucked into war with Russia in Ukraine, they will be sitting pretty for easy picking. China is not impartial as they know a United China may not be CCP in charged.
Therefore, the war in Ukraine has the potential to escalate into larger and longer war.
According to far east source Putin has miscalculated and probably entered a costly gamble. He could have sat there looking pretty.
Putin manages to end Swiss and Swedish neutrality and German pacification policy all in one weekend
^^ Putin would just destabilise a Western Ukraine in order to "go in" and "save it".
It wouldn't work.
nickc
Full Member
Putin manages to end Swiss and Swedish neutrality and German pacification policy all in one weekend
Yes, quiet a feat.👍
Expect GBeebies & Fox News will be next if they’re banning Russian-funded ‘misinformation’? 🤣
Trumpster must be bricking-it because all those dirty Roubles propping us his property empire will be worthless. All those Oligarch-owned luxury condos won’t be needing any servicing soon.
ElShalimo
Full MemberThanks for lifting everyone’s spirits chewkw
🤦
Looked like a lot of words with nothing new to offer
If all parties want to prevent further escalation of the war, I am afraid the only way is to split Ukraine into two. i.e. EU Ukraine (West) and Russian Ukraine (East). Then let the citizen move around. The west really needs to let Putin keeps his buffer zone and face. All parties really need to talk. Unfortunately for Ukrainians this will not go down well but at least they will have peace for a while.
Are you for real...? You'd actually suggest openly negotiating with a terrorist to buy a few years of "peace" for very significant cultural, economic and political cost?!?! 🤯
Thanks for lifting everyone’s spirits @chewkw
I was hoping he was trolling... 🤷🏻♂️
Anyone else noticed that the Russian-Ukrainian talks are going to happen in Pripyat?
That Pripyat.
For real...? Source? 🤯
If that's the case... Anyone know what the potential blast radius and fall out of Russia's smallest Nukes would be? Tell me this isn't so... I can see Putin justifying a small Nuke on Pripyat by saying "well nobody's been able to go there for 35yrs now anyway, besides, as a target I made sure of minimal civilian casualties"... 🤦🏻
FML! Seriously...
“beside the Pripyat river” is what I saw, rather than the city itself
Looked like a lot of words with nothing new to offer
To be fair, he has posted in this thread (and others) in a sensible way, since Mark posted his thread about forum behaviour, making his points clearly without getting too carried away. “Don’t forget China/Taiwan in all this”, is an important point, and I welcome him making it in the manner he has in recent days. And, yes, it is a very depressing point.
The (further) division of Ukraine was always what I though was Putin’s goal. With free Ukraine getting smaller and smaller over the next few decades. I’m no longer sure… I think he might go further and take it all, with and eye to taking regions from other countries in his remaining years.
Because partition has worked so well in the past, India, Ireland, Germany, Cyprus etc.
Oh, it’s an awful idea, but could be forced on Ukraine by Putin. He started it years ago. Free Ukraine has been getting smaller for some time. There is no/little chance of it not getting smaller this year, if it survives at all.
Also just watched the Netflix doc on Maidan in 2014. A super insight on the conflicts running up to the current state of fairs. Hard to watch but worthwhile education.
Feeling absolutely helpless but want to help and be with the Ukrainian people fighting to save their country. Truly heartbreaking
I get what you're saying chewkw with regards splitting the country in two, I think many saw that as a possibility leading up to and during the first two days of the war, but as nickc points out, things have changed a bit over the last couple of days, and not necessarily to Russia's (or China's) advantage...
So, who are people donating to?
Red Cross? UNICEF? Someone else?
Pripyat?
That Pripyat.
At least they won't need to import the tea.
If Ukraine does end up partitioned then there’s likely to be a pro-EU, pro-NATO western part (with a capital in Lviv?) sat right on Putin’s border, which is what he says he doesn’t want.
Are you for real…? You’d actually suggest openly negotiating with a terrorist to buy a few years of “peace” for very significant cultural, economic and political cost?!?! 🤯
You have three options.
1. Go all out to repel the aggressor once an for all.
2. Negotiate and buy peace unfortunately. (for a period of time where all sides prepare until the next great war).
3. Continue to fight in Ukraine for a long period where Ukraine will never have peace.
I get what you’re saying chewkw with regards splitting the country in two, I think many saw that as a possibility leading up to and during the first two days of the war, but as nickc points out, things have changed a bit over the last couple of days, and not necessarily to Russia’s (or China’s) advantage…
The problem is Putin miscalculated and now he wants to save face. He thought it would be a walk over but now realising it may not be possible, and if push to corner I am afraid there is a possibility he will do something drastic. NATO/EU can dare him to see if that will happen.
If Ukraine does end up partitioned then there’s likely to be a pro-EU, pro-NATO western part (with a capital in Lviv?) sat right on Putin’s border, which is what he says he doesn’t want.
He knows that he may not get his way but at least you leave him room to save face and he will probably not do anything in future and to retire as hero of Russia.