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For anyone who prefers a technical slide show (without gore, injuries, etc). The US will, I think, be supplying the DPICM with M42 and M46 bomblets
Wars a terrible thing but the use of cluster munitions or being given them after your enemy has been using them for some time just becomes normal I would imagine. I cannot see Ukraine using them near habitual homes as for cleaning them up it's a bit late for that debate as parts of the country must be saturated with live abandoned ammo.
Horrible things that they are and they should be banned by all civilized governments sadly Russia is not one nor will be for a long time . are they going to be trusted as not much more than a terrorist state especially if there is no leadership change for the better?
Let’s not forget that Ukraine will be using cluster munitions on their own territory. It will be their problem to clean up after the war and their citizens who will be unfortunate to encounter them. They have also promised not to use them in urban areas and will record the location of each use, also won’t be using them in Russian territory. There will be a massive clean up operation after the war, hopefully the use of cluster munitions will help clean up some of the mines, more than will be left unexploded? Seeing as its their own territory being affected, their call I reckon 🤷♂️.
^this plus one. Cluster munitions were banned, not because they are in some way inhumane or particularly awful, but because of the risk they pose to civilians after the conflict has stopped. Given this is being used on Ukrainian soil, which has been mined to buggery by the Russians, I’m not entirely sure what all the fuss is about..
I’m firmly in the camp of “drop every ****ing thing available” on the lines and drive the ****s out of Ukraine, get this finished as soon as possible.
My nhs dentist is from Moldova and his partner is Ukrainian (also a dentist in my local practice), they’ve both lost friends/family members due to the Russian invasion and given the option they’d very happily firebomb the entire Russian army till they leave Ukraine and crawl back to Russia
The problem with arms control agreements is that they require both sides in a conflict to abide by them. Russia has deliberately and blatantly ignored any limits on its actions, it pretty much boasts about committing war crimes and has used cluster munitions against Ukrainian civilians. For Ukraine to use them against Russian military targets is completely justified given Russia’s endless list of war crimes.
Absolutely agree. They way the Ru forces have been conducting themselves, I’d be perfectly content if Ukraine were to start carpet napalming the Ru forces. I dare say that would be effective at clearing the trenches!
Not directly related but still relevant
Perun on hiw wars end
Keeping NATO from the borders of Russia is going so well.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-66160319.amp
Theres this too https://edition.cnn.com/2023/07/10/business/rheinmetall-german-tank-factory-ukraine/index.html
Rheinmetall will open an armored vehicle plant in Ukraine within the next 12 weeks, shrugging off concerns other Western defense companies reportedly have about building a presence in the country while it is at war with Russia.
Not on Russia's border, but our own defence industry is getting a welcome boost in Monmouthshire, Cheshire, Tyne & Wear, Glasgow, and Northumberland.
BAe had already been awarded a £2.4bn contract in 2022 (agreed in 2020), which included a spend of up to £350m with UK-based companies on raw materials and machine components https://www.baesystems.com/en/article/bae-systems-awarded-gbp-2-4-billion-munitions-contract-to-equip-uk-armed-forces
The FT says that another £280mn to £400mn to increase production of 155mm ammunition was announced yesterday. This boost will increase stocks available for Ukraine
@timba - excellent news. Expansion of ammunition production is happening in lots of countries now, the idea that any war would be over in days or weeks is dead.
Now all we need is artillery that's not near end of life and sufficient spares including barrels to fire all the shells.
Anyone else see the Submarine Commander who carried out the especially shocking lunchtime raid on the shopping centre got killed after sharing his regular run route on Strava.
Apparently this is him:
https://www.strava.com/athletes/14384072
Seen the sub commander on MSN, watch out there on your strava
Been going on about privacy settings for years. Oh well.
Great analysis of the offensive to date:
Dibs on his bike. They can keep the submarine.
it’s a Russian bike, therefore the forks will be on backwards, wheels will be octagonal and the saddle missing!
it’s a Russian bike, therefore the forks will be on backwards, wheels will be octagonal and the saddle missing!
YT Capra from the look of it
What chain device doing?
Love the oblique NAFO reference Kimbers
I missed this
The dead submarine commanders strava run was apparently liked by Budanov- chief of Ukrainian military intelligence
https://twitter.com/Milton_Keynes1/status/1678640389488537601?t=WlzxKqxs1q5aupICVyyLXw&s=19
That's incredible. Hilarious and also tragic.
Speaking of tragic, Sergei Shoigu said yesterday that since the 4th June Ukrainian forces have lost 26,000 personnel and 1,244 armoured vehicles, while 176 HIMARS rockets and 27 Storm Shadow cruise missiles were intercepted by Russian forces https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-july-11-2023
I think he just realised that Bakhmut that took 10 months to gain is about to be lost to Ukraine over a few short weeks
Budanovs's crew manage to combine the 'no ****'s given' vengeful attitude of Mossad in the 70's with a an Intel feed straight from the 5-eyes.
It's quite the combo.
Long after the shooting stops in Ukraine I'm willing to bet that we will still be hearing occasional news about a Russian officer meeting a sticky end for years to come.
It also looks as though Ukraine is close to establishing a bridgehead at the Antonivskyi bridge in Kherson region. Russian shelling contradicts the Russian-claimed successful offensive
This pretty much nails Russia's predicament - their only goal now is revenge for their own failures.
https://twitter.com/RadioFreeTom/status/1679335052902125568
The counter offensive just seems to be be nibbling at the Russian lines all over the front. Like raptors testing the fences.
Obviously the Ukrainians are keeping schtum so we have limited idea of how it's going.
If they manage to break through at a single point I suspect things will sudenly start to move very quickly indeed.
Not going to pretend I know where or when though.
I've just read the the Russians are trying to counter attack in one place....?
ISW reported that "Commander of the 58th CAA Major General Ivan Popov (was fired on the 11th) after Popov voiced his concerns over the need for troop rotations in western Zaporizhia Oblast amidst Ukrainian counteroffensives." That source has now been confirmed by Reuters Moscow as well as other media.
If true, the report suggests that Russia lacks reserves and their significant casualty numbers would make for threadbare defensive lines https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-july-11-2023
I'm still surprised we aren't seeing wide spread surrenders from those pressed into service.
Propaganda maybe. Tell the troops they will be executed by the Ukrainian army so they hide in dugouts and don't surrender till they're overrun.
Be great to see some significant control gains this month. I guess the ukr aim is to nibble away at suspect defences, without loosing men and equipment, then doing a smash and grab when the time is right using tanks and apc.
Ukraine is in the attrition phase of the campaign. In western military doctrine this would be carried out with air power. They are having to do it on the ground instead, pushing on multiple fronts, degrading enemy supplies, GLOC and CNC. Forcing then Russians to commit their reserves - until breaking point is reached.
Yeah, I'm hearing a few grumbles in the vein of "Ukraine have all this NATO kit, why haven't they just smashed through Russian lines already?"
What these tend to ignore is the air factor, the lack of air dominance means that Ukraine are really having to do this the hard way. It's a much tougher task than any recent US operation where their air assets have just run rampant on any enemy hardpoints.
It’s a much tougher task than any recent US operation where their air assets have just run rampant on any enemy hardpoints.
And "enemy hardpoints" for the US for most of the last 20 years has actually meant "that Afghan guy wearing flip flops and holding an AK has just hidden behind a wall".
“that Afghan guy wearing flip flops and holding an AK has just hidden behind a wall”
Afghan special forces then?
Afghan special forces then?
Well...they won!
Indeed they did. Probably by employing the Vietnamese boots (flip flops) on the ground tactic. Arriving by air doing your stuff with high tech weaponry and disappearing again doesn't cut it against such an opponent.
The western approach is 1 month (as long as it takes) of massive air power prior to boots on the ground, then manoeuvre warfare. Ukraine doesn’t have this advantage. Expecting instant manoeuvre warfare ignores this fact.
The difference in Afghanistan was that there was no indigenous partner faction with enough domestic support who was willing and able to take over the reigns down the line.
It's the polar opposite situation in Ukraine, the effort is primarily being lead by the Ukrainians on their own terms and once the war is over you can see Ukraine being able to stand on its own 2 feet. The was never a likely outcome in Afghanistan.
Hence why I was highly critical of the Afghanistan effort and highly supportive of Western efforts to support. Ukrain.
I’m still surprised we aren’t seeing wide spread surrenders from those pressed into service.
Surrender doesn't mean the war is over for them, prisoner swaps means they are sent back to Russia, I imagine their treatment and redeployment on being returned is not favourable...
Correct, Wagner's sledgehammer treatment of troops who surrendered is an extreme example but that basic ethos seems to run deep in Russia.
hatter
Full MemberThe counter offensive just seems to be be nibbling at the Russian lines all over the front. Like raptors testing the fences.
Yup. And that's a good thing tbh, if we see them doing real constant attrition low gains stuff, ie what Russia was doing at Bakhmut, then that's a sign that they can't find the breakouts they're looking for and are running out of options. It might be that the explotable weak spots just don't really exist this year though.
On the other hand, when Bhakmut is taken back, the subsequent loss in morale may trigger something?
And “enemy hardpoints” for the US for most of the last 20 years has actually meant “that Afghan guy wearing flip flops and holding an AK has just hidden behind a wall”.
Well who'd have thought it was that simple? Wish we'd had you in the ISAF command to steer us right.
Afghan special forces then?
As for this shithouse comment; you are aware they were hunted after the fall and murdered? The Taliban also murdered their families to try and draw them out.
They were one of the very few units that stood and continued to fight and mount a resistance after we had turned tail and left?
Some of you are ****ing clowns and fantasists who need to spend less time watching war footage on Reddit.
/\/\ oof
WSJ have a fairly (well, it looks it to me) level headed assessment video, published a few days ago.