[Closed] UKIP - I imagine this one will run and run

5...4...3...2...1...

I completely agree. Revolting prejudice.
I have a lot of time for UKIP for their clear political stance - even though I disagree with their policy of leaving the EU. I also disagree with their policies on immigration*, but whatever they are they arent racist policies. Their clear political stance does not encompass a racist bigotry and the attempt to paint UKIP as a BNP-lite is grossly insulting to those who simply agree with their EU policies.

* [url= http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21564841-britain%E2%80%99s-immigration-policy-crippling-business-and-economy-wake-up-mr-cameron ]Im with The Economist on that one[/url]

I'm sure Junk and the rest of STWs resident comrades will be on in a minute, praising the councils well though out aims for European (eussr) integration and protection from the tyranny of self determination by a party of a rouge eu state.

🙄

Can't see what the bloody hell is going on here. Political correctness gone mad by the looks of it. It's the end of free speech. Probably some ruling from a Eurocrat in Brussels.

It is a very odd story - the council say they were taking legal advice, but I wonder how the issue even arose? Of course UKIP members [url= http://twitpic.com/9n55py/full ]can be racists[/url] but that makes them no different to members of any other party - they're not the BNP or EDL.

LOL! I voted for UKIP (think might be 2nd choice with Tory 1st) for Police commissioner.

Reason is simple. There should be Dear Leader.

Well thinking of it I am in a region with strong Labour support (Lib dem council) so I just hate being told what to think. Very PC they are. Maggots!

i only know one person who supports ukip - she's a racist.

if ukip aren't racists is it just coincidence that their policies on europe, multiculturalism and immigration appeal to the racist, xenophobic, insular elements of society ? they'll more than gladly accept the bigots at the ballot.

for all of those crying foul here, what would your position be if the letters bnp or edl were swapped for ukip ?

*loving your work dd* 😆

Surely there is more to this than reported in the press?

There would be a certain irony though if the couple raised a case under Human Rights Legislation to fight it when UKIP want rid of Human Rights Law!

Wanting control if immigration is NOT racist. It's just not.

i suppose opposing multiculturalism isn't either ?

for all of those crying foul here, what would your position be if the letters bnp or edl were swapped for ukip ?

well that's the point isnt it tm - or did you miss it?
They are no more interchangeable than New Labour, The Socialist Worker's Party, The Workers Revolutionary Party or The Communist Party. Do you think a Labour Voters politics should be conflated with the Communist party, coz, you know, they're all the same really arent they...?

Now, I can't condemn the council for what it has done here, because I think that members of the Labour party should be barred from holding any taxpayer funded job on the basis that they are small minded, interfering, financial incompetents.

I really don't see how this sort of thing can be controversial.

I think that members of [s]the Labour[/s] any party should be barred from holding any taxpayer funded job on the basis that they are small minded, interfering, financial incompetents.

FTFY 😉

We need an EU referendum NOW !

i suppose opposing multiculturalism isn't either ?

From Wiki:

[i]UKIP opposes multiculturalism and political correctness but rejects "blood and soil" ethnic nationalism. UKIP promotes uni-culturalism, a single British culture embracing all races, religions and colours". It states that Britishness can be defined in terms of belief in democracy, fair play and freedom.[/i]

Which seems like the very antithesis of racism to me, doesn't it to you?

Unlike, perhaps

[img] [/img]

Lets also not forget that discriminating against someone on the grounds of their political beliefs is a breach of their Human rights, even if they are in the BNP

http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/2012/nov/06/bnp-bus-driver-wins-legal-case

It's very simple; anyone belonging to UKIP is an imbecile and imbeciles should not be encouraged to raise children. I really can't see what all the fuss is about...

i suppose opposing multiculturalism isn't either ?

Correct. See for example [url= http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2004/may/28/equality.raceintheuk ]Trevor Phillips' views[/url] as chairman of the commission for racial equality:

When I remarked last month that it was time for Britain to move on from divisive, 80s-style "multiculturalist" policies, I thought it might cause a mild stir among Britain's diversity professionals and activists

Zulu, why don't you get us a picture from the bible. 😆

Didn't UKIP have some negative views on cycling in their manifesto? Like compulsory use of cycle lanes etc

We need an EU referendum NOW !

I think the last thing we want to do is ask the general unwashed what they think they want! They're bound to come out with the wrong answer! 😉

Darcy, why don't you get us a picture from your family tree?

Now - how about you try and debate rather than relying on ad hominem attacks every time you're pwned,? you're starting to turn into TJ 😉

A bit like the Bus Driver that won his case:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/bradford-bus-driver-should-not-have-been-sacked-for-his-membership-of-the-british-national-party-8289958.html

Under the original theory, surely anyone who works in the public sector and becomes a Tory councillor should automatically lose their job 😉

They are no more interchangeable than New Labour, The Socialist Worker's Party, The Workers Revolutionary Party or The Communist Party. Do you think a Labour Voters politics should be conflated with the Communist party, coz, you know, they're all the same really arent they

not at all, the very core of new labour is neo liberalism, the others oppose it, absolutely.

how much of the bnp's core policies on immigration, multiculturalism and europe are opposed by ukip ?

i'd say they were pretty close.

i'd say they were pretty close.

UKIP promotes uni-culturalism, a single British culture embracing all races, religions and colours".

Just like the BNP and EDL eh?

I would say that on the subject of racist beliefs you couldnt really get a greater opposing view.

UKIP promotes uni-culturalism, a single British culture embracing all races, religions and colours

so we don't mind you being a bit dark just as long as you think, pray, dress, listen, read, teach, see they same as 'we' do. an idea of 'britishness' that comes from god knows where.

Which seems like the very antithesis of racism to me, doesn't it to you?

no, it seems like the very definition of it. they dislike difference.

Ah Zulu...come on now. It's not like you to be so sensitive. How about a bit of Solomon's wisdom.

no, it seems like the very definition of it. they dislike difference.

want a hand finding an online dictionary?

UKIP promotes uni-culturalism, a single British culture embracing all races, religions and colours".

I would say that on the subject of racist beliefs you couldnt really get a greater opposing view.

why ? the bnp allows black members.

want a hand finding an online dictionary?

you do realise you lose tyhe argument the moment you start being insulting right ?

so it's not racist to suggest that all races are welcome as long as they conform to a national cultural stereotype ?

BNP and UKIP are not close at all, not even remotely. BNP advocates repatriation of immigrants and its definition of the 'British people' is clearly racist. UKIP is in favour of immigration, just not unregulated immigration and it believes there should be a ban on it for the next five years. I don't believe being against multiculturalism is racist either, especially when you read their definition of that as posted above.

Someone at Rotherham council has made a serious error of judgement here. It might hAve been well intentioned but it is entirely ignorant and ill informed.

700 wives and 300 concubines? Well, we'll have some of that type of multiculturalism Darcy 🙂

Given Rotherham's sterling reputation in Child Protection work, is anyone surprised by more evidence of incompetence?

Isnt it Doncaster that has an outstanding reputation in child services?
Or is Rotherham just as outstanding?

*goes off to check private eye*

Anyway, back OT, they'll be making us have straight bananas next. 😐

Point of order.

The BNP is a 'racist' party. Think we can all agree on that.
The BNP has racist policies.
It also has other policies that aren't themselves racists (such as the idea of 'Britishness' as a single cultural entity being a good thing, short of definitions that in way that excludes other ethnic groups from being part of it) and just because the BNP adopts them doesn't make those policies racists by default.

Its the bent cucumbers I miss 🙁

so it's not racist to suggest that all races are welcome as long as they conform to a national cultural stereotype ?

Why don't you explain to us how that does in fact constitute [b]racism[/b] Trailmonkey ? Maybe in one syllable words so we can understand it, eh.

I never had UKIP down as a racist party. Silly party, yes.
On first reading this story I thought there's bound to be more to this story and that the couple wouldn't have to stop fostering because they support UKIP but seeing as my OH is a foster carer and knowing what rubbish she has to put up with from social workers then it doesn't really surprise me.

Whilst on the surface of it this does sound like an absolutely absurd decision i wouldn't be at all surprised if their was other issues going on, i believe they were after all acting on an tip off, although it hasn't been reported if their were other concerns of the whistle-blower just this one headline, and i for one came to the conclusion a long time ago that the media can't be trusted to report everything 100% accurately 100% of the time.

Look at it from this perspective, if you were in the job that meant making the decision would you prefer to see this as a headline or in 6 months time a headline that read "COUNCIL LET UKIP RACISTS HAVE ETHNIC CHILDREN AS SLAVES" or some other child abuse story.

Child services have come under plenty of scrutiny in recent years, and rightly so, after the high profile deaths of children who have been on their radar, and the children's welfare must always be paramount even if it does upset a few people.

Read some of the comments after this story if you can be bothered to wade through them

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/teenage-girls-attacker-caught-cctv-205025481.html

Now i'm not suggesting for one minute that all UKIP supporters are racist, but there is some thinly veiled racism going on in those comments and i wouldn't be at all surprised if alot of them align themselves with UKIP, because UKIP isn't racist and no one likes to be called a racist even if they blatantly are.

so it's not racist to suggest that all races are welcome as long as they conform to a national cultural stereotype ?

Apart from Zulu's point, which is well made, race and culture are not the same thing and so aren't incompatible. You can be multi-ethnic and still be mono-cultural if the values of that single culture support pluralism for example, or tolerance of different people.

It should also be noted that race and ethnicity are not the same thing either; racism judges people by genetics and deems them inferior on that basis alone. Ethnicism is something else; judging people based on their ideas and values. I am deeply uncomfortable with racism because it's entirely ignorant in its judgement, but ethnicism is different. For example is it so bad to hold prejudicial views against ethnically prescribed homophobia, or religious haterd?

Bazz: Now i'm not suggesting for one minute that all UKIP supporters are racist, but there is some thinly veiled racism going on in those comments and i wouldn't be at all surprised if alot of them align themselves with UKIP, because UKIP isn't racist and no one likes to be called a racist even if they blatantly are.

Errmmm ... from other minority point of views everyone is a racist deep down to some extend. Some keep to themselves, some just express their views more strongly while others act on it.

I have voted for Lib dem, Labour, NuLabour, Tory, UKIP but as far as I know I am voting for lesser maggots that's all.

Anyone that has already concluded what has happened is a buffoon

Bazz has it. Speaking with my professional hat on, I would be very suprised indeed if there is more to it than the political leanings of the foster parents.

The Telegraph reports a great deal from the foster parents and only this statement from the local authority:

A spokesman for Rotherham metropolitan borough council said last night: “After a group of sibling children were placed with agency foster carers, issues were raised regarding the long-term suitability of the carers for these particular children.

"With careful consideration, a decision was taken to move the children to alternative care. We continue to keep the situation under review.”

Of course they are not prepared to comment to the public at this early stage (or indeed ever?) on why they removed the children. In my career I have encountered all sorts of reasons for removing children from foster carers, and an almost equally diverse range of 'understandings' amongst parents and foster carers of why children were removed from them. Sometimes those understandings are shared/agreed on by social services and the parent/foster carer, and sometimes they are wildly different. Perhaps there is something else/different that the local authority are too professional to tell a newspaper reporter about at this point.

It is also worth noting (as the Telegraph article does) that there is a by-election in Rotheram with a UKIP candiate standing, of course.

Of course they are not prepared to comment to the public at this early stage (or indeed ever?) on why they removed the children.

Their top person was touring the studios this morning doing precisely the opposite.

Mrs (Joyce) Thacker (Head of Children's Services) told the BBC: "We have to think about the clear statements on ending multi-culturalism for example.
"These children are from EU migrant backgrounds and Ukip has very clear statements on ending multiculturalism, not having that going forward, and I have to think about how sensitive I am being to those children."

Council is swinging into U-turn mode now after it became clear they had zero support from anyone outside the Town Hall.

elzorillo - Member
I'm sure Junk and the rest of STWs resident comrades will be on in a minute, praising the councils well though out aims for European (eussr) integration and protection from the tyranny of self determination by a party of a rouge eu state.

Thanks for all that but tbh , beyond your bile and disdain, i dont actually know what rational point you are trying to make 🙄

The thing with political views is you need to defend the right to express views you find the most odious or dislike the most. For me UKIP are not even close the worst I could call them is slightly xenophobic patriots an even that may be OTT. they are some way short of even BNP light IMHO

I think we all need to respect folks views a bit more - its not like everyone right wing s a nazi or everyone left wing a stalinist[ thought there are some].

the bnp allows black members.

You can be multi-ethnic and still be mono-cultural if the values of that single culture support pluralism for example, or tolerance of different people

To avoid disappearances, asylum seekers will be held in secure and humane centres until applications are processed, with limited right to appeal. Those seeking asylum must do so in the first ‘designated safe country’ they enter. Existing asylum seekers who have had their application refused will be required to leave the country, along with any dependants. We oppose any amnesties for failed asylum seekers or illegal immigrants.

THE ONLY PARTY STANDING UP FOR BRITAIN AND (ALL) THE BRITISH PEOPLE

Joyce Thacker, strategic director of children and young people's services at Rotherham Metropolitan Borough Council, said earlier on Saturday that the three ethnic minority children had been placed with the couple as an emergency and it was never going to be a long-term arrangement.

"Also the fact of the matter is I have to look at the children's cultural and ethnic needs. The children have been in care proceedings before and the judge had previously criticised us for not looking after the children's cultural and ethnic needs, and we have had to really take that into consideration with the placement that they were in,"

I am not sure anyone is saying they cannot foster just that they may not be the best foster parents for these children.
It s a complex issue and I can see arguments both ways and I doubt a STW knee jerk goad fest will help us clear up this issue as we take opposing stances and attack one another.

UKIP are clearly not racist like the BNP are but I think an "ethnic person" would probably be better served being placed with someone with different views as UKIP want them to adopt our culture rather than respect theirs [ to some degree anyway - a pro British way rather than hatred of foreigners but in a keep Britain British- or assimilation??]

In much the same way I would not be the best choice for some children who came from a deeply religious background given my views on religion.

Its about matching people with good matches- similar values after all.

Wont someone think about the children 😉