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as if to imply the expected standard is too high.
Which seems a reasonable conclusion to me. Why is the standard of existing English test insufficient? Why force foreign speakers to speak and understand English at a level which the government describes as "tough"?
The government on their own website directly link the "tough" new English test with what they call a "failed immigration system". You would need to be particularly naive not to see that they are attempting to out-farage Nigel Farage. It is obvious that they want to be perceived as being tough on foreigners and that is the driving motive rather than a problem with the standard of the previous English test being insufficiently low.
You want us to believe that the new English test is easy and the government wants us to believe that it is tough, I can understand why the government wants to believe it is tough but I don't understand why you want us to believe it is easy.
Easy for native speakers is what I said actually. I didn't say it would be easy for non-native speakers. Although I expect anyone who is serious about wanting to build a life and career here will have already been working on their English language skills and won't find it particularly difficult.
As an example, many universities also require B2 as part of their entry requirements. Evidently there are a great many 18-year-old non-native speakers who manage to pass the test without ever having lived in an English speaking country.
A non-native family member did the B1 a couple of years back and - with minimal formal English study but after several years living in the UK - didn't even bother revising, it was that easy. The B2 is slightly harder but not massively so, there are further levels above that before you get to fluency.
I don't care much for the government rhetoric. It's pretty obvious that they see some electoral value in the "tough on immigration" position. I'm not convinced, agree that trying to out-Farage Farage seems like a fools errand, but then I don't have access to the data they do, and I live in hope that it's part of a well thought-out long term strategy.
Great news that the UK is on track to be one of the fastest growing major economies according to the IMF.
Seems like the IMF's forecasters are about as reliable as the OBR. Honestly, what is the actual point of all these growth forecasts if they're always so wildly inaccurate and more importantly why are we using them to set economic and fiscal policy? The 'profession' of economics is a fraud, and yet we treat economists like all-knowing gods and bow to their every word. It's nonsense.
While I don't agree that professional economists are frauds economic forecasts are nothing more than educated guesses but as there are so many things involved they need a bit of a pinch of salt. If you had no forecast at all would that actually be better - not sure.
While I don't agree that professional economists are frauds
I should probably correct myself, economic forecasting is a fraud and anyone pretending it's a solid basis for setting economic and fiscal policy is not following the evidence. Economics should be limited to understanding why stuff happens and creating new innovative models for organising the economy, not pretending it's some sort of weather forecast that policy makers must obey.
Thank you for the list, Politecameraaction. If you read throug you'll find it confirms the criticism I made - it's not related to the needs of the British economy. It's just a classification of jobs on level of skill and then makes the low skilled jobs inilegible. It strikes me that some of the inelegible jobs have being suffering growth handicapping shortages for years 8151 - 8159 for example - exactly the type of jobs that Australia has young people doing for six months. Britain doesn't need librarians but it does need construction workers.
The skilled occupation list is related to the needs of the British economy. It was produced by the (independent) Migration Advisory Committee on the basis of labour shortages in the economy identified by employers that could be sold by better access to foreign labour.
https://www.davidsonmorris.com/immigration-salary-list/
Again, the "young people [by which you mean foreigners] doing jobs for six months" scheme to which you vaguely refer in Australia already exists in the UK. It's the Youth Mobility Scheme.
https://www.gov.uk/youth-mobility
You really should consider looking into the facts of some of this stuff.
You really should consider looking into the facts of some of this stuff.
And you should perhaps learn some polite debating skills, impolitecameraction. Neither the lists nor the workings of the schemes are comparable. Try reading your own links and then compare with stated labour shortages in the building industry. The UK building industry says there is a shortage of 20 000 ground workers but they aren't on either of your lists, they are ineligible.
On the other hand if you want to extend your stay in Australia you have to work in things like farming or construction with an approved employer to extend the visa, junior's band mate has done it:
the Working Holiday Visa (subclass 417) allows holders to extend their stay by completing 88 days of specified regional work, such as farming, in eligible areas.
I'm suggesting that the Australian sytem works for them and could work for the UK too, it's not exactly the same and the countries don't have exactly the same lists, schemes, cost to workers and employers; so why pretend they do?. This is just a bike forum and "chat" with an exchange of ideas. We aren't in a court of law trying to find anyone guilty - well most of us aren't.
I hope Labour introduce a British politeness and decorum test for would be migrants.
The UK building industry says there is a shortage of 20 000 ground workers but they aren't on either of your lists, they are ineligible.
What that means is that there's a shortage at the price they want to pay. If they offered more money then the shortage would be would magically start to disappear. But of course, if wages go up then the bottom line goes down, the share price falls, and then it's the bonuses that do the disappearing act...
And Sir Keir Starmer continues to take the Labour Party to where it has never been before.....2 points behind Kemi Badenoch's Tory Party and level pegging with the Green Party. That's really quite something.
https://findoutnow.co.uk/blog/voting-intention-15th-october-2025/
Our Voting Intention tracker shows Labour on their lowest-ever vote share
Can anyone imagine what the reaction from the centrists and the right-wing press would be if Starmer was a Leftie?
Yeah I can too. However Starmer is no Leftie so they just shrug their shoulders and mutter something about no general election for almost 4 years so obviously nothing to worry about.
Besides, soon the new left party will presumably be included in the polls and it will all be the fault of Jeremy Corbyn that Labour are so unpopular with voters.
Besides, soon the new left party will presumably be included in the polls and it will all be the fault of Jeremy Corbyn that Labour are so unpopular with voters.
It's a strange one: we're told he's useless yet is also responsible for splitting Labour's vote.
I think the Australian and Canadian approach of a list of professions is a better approach if the objective is boosting the economy.I'm suggesting that the Australian sytem works for them and could work for the UK too, it's not exactly the same and the countries don't have exactly the same lists, schemes, cost to workers and employers; so why pretend they do?
No-one is pretending they're the same lists. You were unaware that the UK already had a list of professions prioritised for immigration, which is the Australian approach, and you wete unaware of how it is compiled. You were also unaware of the youth mobility scheme, which is equivalent and reciprocal to the Australian working holiday visa. And as you're still talking about agricultural temporary labour - are you familiar with the Seasonal Worker visa scheme that also already exists in the UK...?All of the things youre suggesting for the UK already exist in the UK.
Yey, Corbyn again! FFS.
Meanwhile, The Green Party has someone working hard to engage the public. The LibDems are pressing hard on care. And Labour are getting on with trying to bail us out of our ditch.
And Labour are getting on with trying to bail us out of our ditch.
They are? I'm not aware that they've managed to climb out of their own ditch, let alone the country's.
Yey, Corbyn again! FFS
Well can you think of any other reasons why Labour are so unpopular, staggeringly unpopular in fact?
As you say...."Labour are getting on with trying to bail us out of our ditch"
So it is obviously nothing to do with Starmer.
No-one is pretending they're the same lists. You were unaware that the UK already had a list of professions prioritised for immigration, which is the Australian approach, and you wete unaware of how it is compiled. You were also unaware of the youth mobility scheme, which is equivalent and reciprocal to the Australian working holiday visa. And as you're still talking about agricultural temporary labour - are you familiar with the Seasonal Worker visa scheme that also already exists in the UK...?All of the things youre suggesting for the UK already exist in the UK.
Worth pointing out that Australia also require evidence of English language proficiency for most if not all visa classes and certainly the skilled worker ones. Indeed some of them require the CEFR C1 or equivalent, which is a step up from the B2 level being proposed by UK Labour government now.
So many assumptions, policecameraction. You make a habit of assuming people are ignorant, thick, uninformed, don't read the newspapers, don't watch the news, don't know how to use a browser. Then get really annoyed and insulting when they demonstrate stuff is true that doesn't fit with your own special view of the world.
With regards to immigration conditions, costs to employers, incentives and disincentives to the workers concerned, shortages, atttitudes to immigrants, immigrant rights (or lack of)... it's all been done before on this thread and others. There's nothing off the wall here.
I'm not sure what you are traying to say or prove with unfair, inaccurate and gratuitous attack on my pretty innocuous reference to the Australian and Canadian systems which are different and perhaps a model to follow however much you claim the UK replicates them.
My most recent and direct contact with the immigrant workers in the UK were the excellent carers who turned up 4 times a day to look after my father in his final days. You know the people who feel in danger sitting in their cars between clients. I suggested the Canadians and Australians had ideas it might be worth copying but deliberately avoided slagging off the UK system, but as you've been so unpleasant about it I'll use a bit of AI browser skimming on the UK's treatment of migrants I've been close to and felt ashamed of :
Migrant care workers in the UK face severe challenges, including being charged up to £20,000 in illegal fees, enduring overcrowded and substandard housing, experiencing widespread racism, and living in fear of retaliation for reporting abuse due to their tied visa status.A significant number are also dissatisfied with their pay and working hours, with many working long, unpredictable shifts and not being paid for travel time or overtime.
Migrant care workers on the Health and Care Worker Visa are often required to pay large upfront fees to employers or intermediaries, with over 100 respondents in a Unison survey reporting payments between £5,000 and £20,000, and five paying £20,000 or more.
Workers frequently facepoor living conditions, including sharing beds with multiple colleagues, and some have been forced to sleep rough due to financial hardship.
A 2024 report by the Work Rights Centre found that 75% of surveyed migrant care workers were unhappy with their pay, 55% were dissatisfied with their work schedules, and nearly two-thirds reported breaches of their employment rights, including health and safety violations and discrimination.
The current sponsorship system ties workers to their employers, creating a power imbalance; if a worker leaves or their employer goes out of business, they have only 60 days to find a new sponsor or risk deportation, which discourages reporting abuse.
The government has introduced reforms, including requiring care providers to be registered with the Care Quality Commission (CQC) to sponsor workers, and restricting care workers from bringing dependants to the UK to reduce migration numbers.
Despite these changes, concerns remain that the system continues to enable exploitation, withreports of workers being threatened with visa revocation if they complain about their treatment.
Edit in case you think I'm imagining things:
The government closed the post-Brexit sponsored care worker visa route in July. Ahmed said: “We’ve still got 130,000 vacancies. A provider told me last week they had 80 applications for a job they were advertising and not one person turned up for the interview – that’s where it is with trying to get a domestic workforce.”
And Labour are getting on with trying to bail us out of our ditch.
They've been digging their own hole since day one.
And Labour are getting on with trying to bail us out of our ditch.
They've been digging their own hole since day one.
as you've been so unpleasant about it
I'm sorry that your feelings were hurt by me pointing out that things you were suggesting for the UK already existed in the UK, and giving you sources. As for the other paragraphs of your lengthy and emotional post - I'm afraid I have no idea what you're on about.
Have a great evening. 👍
It's a strange one: we're told he's useless yet is also responsible for splitting Labour's vote.
Its Schrodinger's lefty. On the one hand they are completely irrelevant and so can be ignored when formulating policies and policies should be aimed at the right wing vote but on the other hand they are completely and utterly to blame when the right wingers promising even more right wing policies win.
Oddly enough was reading an article about the democrats where exactly the same phenomenon occurred.
The biggest splitter of the Labour vote is chuffin' Starmer.
Self awareness implosion!
"If you don't like what we're doing - leave. My polling? Hold my beer."
Another own goal by the Israelis’ pet poodle. It’s not “anti-Semitism” to not want horrible thugs with a track record of violence running round our cities.
The police said it believed the measure would “help mitigate risks to public safety” and that it remained “steadfast in our support of all affected communities, and reaffirm our zero-tolerance stance on hate crime in all its forms”.
The move was condemned by the prime minister, Keir Starmer, who said: “This is the wrong decision. We will not tolerate antisemitism on our streets.
How are people suppose to have confidence in the police when a Labour Prime Minister publicly attacks their operational decisions and accuses them of tolerating anti-semitism?
This sort of talk by Starmer feeds directly into the personal narrative of thugs who have no respect for the police and want to take to streets and lob bottles at them.
Keir Starmer really does want to model himself on Nigel Farage doesn't he? Farage wants to back islamophobic thugs that take to our streets now Starmer wants to do the same.
Who would have thought that the former Director of Public Prosecutions would one day use the office of Prime Minister to publicly criticise the operational decisions of the police?
Still I guess with the latest opinion poll putting the Labour Party level pegging with the Green Party and his political credibility in tatters Sir Keir Starmer is a very desperate man and is probably not thinking very straight. Why doesn't he do everyone, including himself, a favour and resign?
I saw what the maccabees did to Amsterdam. Not allowing them anywhere other than prison for the rest of their miserable lives is the right way. Disgusting excuses for humans.
I saw what the maccabees did to Amsterdam. Not allowing them anywhere other than prison for the rest of their miserable lives is the right way. Disgusting excuses for humans.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwy81qvn7gjo
Amsterdam has the right to defend itself.
Let them come and if they start their racist shit (as they will...because that's who they are) then the police should turn a blind eye to the instigators getting the absolute shite kicked out of them
Never thought I'd see the day where the Prime Minister of the day and the Leader of the Opposition were so animated about protecting the rights of football hooligans to come here and spread their unique form of poison and chaos. I have always said though that Starmer had hooligan sympathies but I am surprised at Badenoch.
I had some curiousity about DBS checks, and what goes on them. There are things that are never taken off. Such as possession of items for terrorist purposes.
If a protester who supported Palestine Action needs a DBS checked job in the future, will it specify the terrorist item was a piece of cardboard?
the police should turn a blind eye to the instigators getting the absolute shite kicked out of them
Yeah but then the headlines will be about anti semitism.
As an Aston Villa season ticket holder (and I've been to several Maccabees gigs) my perspective is a bit different.
Based on the protests at the Giro d'Italia against the Israeli backed team I'm going nowhere near Villa Park that night. Every pro Palestine protestor who can get there will get there (and quite rightly so in my book).
On match day we park a mile or so away and walk along streets which are almost exclusively occupied by Islamic folk. I feel sorry for them.
I know nothing about football or this particular group of supporters, though coincidentally I'm just about to pick up my Dutch football crazy BiL from Gatwick who is seeing three matches here over this weekend, one against Villa so I'm sure I'll get chapter and verse on the Amsterdam violence as he was at the match. However the fact that the Birmingham SAG has made their decision should be enough for our Prime minister as somebody quaintly put in a different context in a different thread, to STFU. The fact that he hasn't speaks volumes about his links with Israel.
If a protester who supported Palestine Action needs a DBS checked job in the future, will it specify the terrorist item was a piece of cardboard?
I'm not too sure of the specifics but the fact that it's a terror related conviction has huge impacts on all manner of otherwise "routine" checks.
I remember being told that the decision to proscribe PA was more due to ongoing terrorism trials underway than the actions at Brize Norton, but either those trials are very long running or it was a smokescreen.
the police should turn a blind eye to the instigators getting the absolute shite kicked out of them
Yeah but then the headlines will be about anti semitism.
In that case bring it on, I'd proudly wear a shirt stating "starmer calls me antisemitic"
Its ****ing rendered meaningless as its thrown around like confetti
It's all such crap.
I'm anti-semetic, but I'm also just as anti-Christianity, and anti-Islam, etc. It's called being a grown up with a brain.
I don't understand why it's such a hard concept to grasp. I'm also against the govenment of Israel, but that has nothing to do with Jews, it's because the government are a muderous dictatorship.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again, religion has NO PLACE in modern society.
The ticket allocation for the Israeli team’s supporters appears to be 1K (could be wrong?)
Starmer/Badenoch etc have made more noise about their right to watch 90 minutes of football than the slaughter of 20k+ innocent children
Never thought I'd see the day where the Prime Minister of the day and the Leader of the Opposition were so animated about protecting the rights of football hooligans to come here and spread their unique form of poison and chaos. I have always said though that Starmer had hooligan sympathies but I am surprised at Badenoch.
I think these politicians are deliberate in their actions.
https://twitter.com/meadwaj/status/1978802156737282201?t=S7WxYGHQY77pKupPcZ2shQ&s=19
🤣
Lol not learning a damn thing.
Can't get anything correct can they?
With the possibility of the new EV pay per mile tax - we are really in the upside down.
The country is being wrecked in the shadow of a false ideological set of rules, as well as abject incompetence.
Another own goal by the Israelis’ pet poodle. It’s not “anti-Semitism” to not want horrible thugs with a track record of violence running round our cities.
Supposedly unlike the Tories honesty and integrity characterises Sir Keir Starmer's premiership. And apparently very flexible "principles" to suit any situation and opportunity.
I believe that this photo is genuine :
Starmer really is a lo-life, Nigel Farage for all his many failings doesn't pretend to be anything other than an arsehole. So you can understand why some people might prefer Farage to Starmer.
At least with Farage you get what's written on the tin.
It's good to see that according to a huge poll by YouGov, involving nearly 7k people, that the UK public does not share Starmer's islamophobic and genocidal friendly tendencies :
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/2025/10/17/ff31d/2
If you click on the drop-down menu and then tick "politics" those most likely to agree with Starmer are Tory and Reform voters, and those least likely to agree with Starmer are Labour voters.
So absolutely no surprise there then.
Who knows what Starmer’s real views are? Probably not him. 
Blimey, anti-semitism is completely out of control..... now even the Israeli police are at it !
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cgr4n07509wo
I hope Sir Keir Starmer has some harsh words to express his disgust at the decision made by the Israeli police.
Lisa Nandy is looking for the money and resources to welcome the hooligans into the UK.
"We will find the resources that need to be made available once the West Midlands police has come forward with the risk assessment", she says.
Cost of living crisis = sorry can't help you.
Hooligans = we will pick you up at the docks.
https://twitter.com/implausibleblog/status/1980335735229354195?t=1nVyr-W3cD_CdogHEjEnkw&s=19
Nandy will be remembered as a one line footnote in labours history, that’s if she’s remembered at all
Well, she’s gone and done it. The straw that broke the camels back. That’s my Labour membership cancelled. I’m done!
I’ve been increasingly uncomfortable with remaining a member for some time now, but I’ve been justifying it to myself on the grounds that it’s the local party I’m supporting and they’re good people, but this?
I watched that speech by Lisa Nandy and couldn’t believe what I was seeing. A labour minister standing up in parliament to defend the entitlement of far right Israeli thugs? Singing songs about killing kids in Gaza? Seriously?
And on the back of this, Little Tommy Robinson wearing their shirt and saying he’ll be at Villa Park to support them, his security paid for by a Labour minister? It’s absolutely disgusting!
When you’re on the same side as them, then you need to be having a long hard look at how far you’ve lost your way
I am, like many people, now officially politically homeless
Binners ... welcome to the 7!
Seriously, if this thing goes ahead this could end up being an insanely tragic domestic public test of Starmer's political career - in the shape of a football.
Starmer must need his head examining.
I'm with Binners they have lost me.
They will ultimately lose a lot of 'real' Labour people. The Labour voters who switched to Reform I see as Labour because they/their families always have and don't really hold strong allegiance to Labour principles as easily swayed by immigration nonsense.
But where do the real Labour people go though. Easy for me as I have always thought the Green party policies are more Labour than Labour for some time but if you don't think the Green party is it then not sure what you do now?
& now the Thugs are playing the victim card - we don't want your tickets. Oh yes they issues at the weekend they were entirely the other teams fault.
I have always voted Labour, but my missus has always said she doesn't like Kier, I was nah give him time.
Off to vote Green Party from now on. The next election will be scariest on so far in my lifetime.
Since the very latest opinion poll puts Labour on level pegging with the Greens at 15%, and the LibDems are on 12% which is exactly what they got at the general election, then it is clear who is currently the main beneficiary on the left of Labour's dramatic shift to the right and newfound commitment to hard-right rhetoric.
I stand with Binners and many others in being politically homeless.
Zach Polanski is making a lot of the right noises but it's early days for him. I'm old enough to remember another bright-eyed, bushy tailed newcomer who promised the world and sold out for a seat at the big table. Wonder how many millions Nick Clegg has now.
Green Party policy is firmly in the hands of the membership (which I accept isn't a totally problem-free solution) Zack Polanski couldn't do a Nick Clegg even if he wanted to, he is in effect nothing more than a spokesman for the party.
Which is exactly how it should be imo, I think the whole idea of a political party which claims to be democratic having a "leader" is ridiculous.
We wouldn't be were we are today if the Labour Party didn't give their leader so much unchallenged power. Why does the NEC not have the power to suspend Keir Starmer for his comments publicly attacking the West Midlands police and bringing the party into dispute? Any Labour backbencher would have had the Labour whip removed.
Which is exactly how it should be imo, I think the whole idea of a political party which claims to be democratic having a "leader" is ridiculous.
Anyone who's worked in an environment where decisions are taken by committee would beg to disagree.
Green Party policy is firmly in the hands of the membership (which I accept isn't a totally problem-free solution) Zack Polanski couldn't do a Nick Clegg even if he wanted to, he is in effect nothing more than a spokesman for the party.
LibDem members had a vote on joining the coalition, without them Clegg could do nothing. Once in coalition, party policy was still set by members voting, but of course that didn't set government policy because the Conservatives also had a (bigger) say in that. If Polanski ends up in government, with other parties, reality will force compromise (or the government falls).
Why does the NEC not have the power to suspend Keir Starmer...
It does have that power.
FFS will someone please sort out the formatting on this thread.
Green party binners! That's where I am now, not a member (yet!) but I'll be voting for them in all elections from now on and encouraging everyone I know to do the same. Feel sorry for our local Labour MP as he's done a good job which he will almost certainly lose at the next election but he can't expect people to vote for a party defending the rights of fascist thugs.
I'll be doing what I've done in past elections... donate to the fighting fund of Green candidates in winnable seats, and vote for our local Labour candidate who I have plenty of time for (and voted for at hustings while I was a member).
The telaviv/ aston villa matter is just an unwinnable culture war fight that served no purpose
"Its an operational matter for west midlands police" should have been the governments response, I know the rw press wouldve piled in on them but they should just respond with focusing on fixing the economy etc etc
It’s a crazy state of affairs to choose this hill to die on. I honestly expected better of Lisa Nandy, who I’ve always liked. To expend a load of political capital, which is hardly in plentiful supply, to alienate your remaining supporters and please some far right Israeli thugs and Tommy Robinson?
Said hooligans then say ‘we didn’t want to come anyway’ leaving you looking bloody stupid and like they’re the ones dictating the agenda, which apparently they are.
The only thing that would have been worse is them actually turning up, with the government having overruled the police, then there inevitably being loads of trouble, just as the police had warned about.
Either way, having stupidly and completely unnecessarily put yourself in this position, you’re going to end up looking like a complete mug
Absolutely clueless!
And that’s before you get into what it says about your attitude to democracy that you’re sitting in Westminster, ordering a regional police force to change an operational decision that it’s made, based on what they describe as ‘credible intel’
So much for devolution?
away from all that nonsense
this is what really matters
https://bsky.app/profile/timbale.bsky.social/post/3m3omodaqis2z
and vote for our local Labour candidate who I have plenty of time for
Nope. I won't be voting or supporting Labour in any form until Starmer and his fellow fascist apologists are gone and they clearly demonstrate they do not align themselves with far right fascists. If we can't draw the line now then we never will.
Josh Fenton-Glynn is a good guy and hardworking MP, but if he chooses to remain in a party which aligns with the likes of Tommy Robinson then he doesn't deserve the votes of people who are opposed to racism, thuggery and violence.
It’s a crazy state of affairs to choose this hill to die on. I honestly expected better of Lisa Nandy, who I’ve always liked. To expend a load of political capital, which is hardly in plentiful supply, to alienate your remaining supporters and please some far right Israeli thugs and Tommy Robinson?
Said hooligans then say ‘we didn’t want to come anyway’ leaving you looking bloody stupid and like they’re the ones dictating the agenda, which apparently they are.
The only thing that would have been worse is them actually turning up, with the government having overruled the police, then there inevitably being loads of trouble, just as the police had warned about.
Either way, having stupidly and completely unnecessarily put yourself in this position, you’re going to end up looking like a complete mug
Absolutely clueless!
And that’s before you get into what it says about your attitude to democracy that you’re sitting in Westminster, ordering a regional police force to change an operational decision that it’s made, based on what they describe as ‘credible intel’
So much for devolution?
This is the same government that shrugged when the CPS stated that China were not a threat to national security.
I thought the DG of MI5 showed more statesman like behaviour than that shower of shit could ever be capable of.
Have we really run out of everyone with a personality and the skills to lead effectively? I don't like to pay attention to the lunatics online who cry about the UK being lost.
No matter what you believe the main issues are, they all track back to the same big house full of the 'Right Honourable' who are more like the 'Right Useless'.
Currently there's everything to lose by not voting green - even if the intention might not be to get green in power due to the numbers. It sends the signal that we want positive progressive policy and push back from all this jack-boot nonsense that started (let's face it) ages ago.
We need to get out of this spiral. The right-wingers are looking at the economy which they have baulked with their bullshit ruinous neoliberal agenda - and to save it for their own needs they're going to ask us all to suffer again via cuts and taxation delivered by Reeves. (Who's not going to balance the books in a month of Sundays.) And it's destructive and counter intuitive too.
The inflation by interest rate adjustment is not working - but will break something eventually. In the meantime interest income is being paid to wealth, and they've never had such a good ride with assets like gold and equities absolutely piling through the roof.
It's disgraceful.
It doesn't work for the majority. It will never work as it stands. Whatever form Labour take next they need a seriously bad kicking so the Labour right can go **** themselves.
The broader 'right' absolutely hate Labour too - so what's the point?
Currently there's everything to lose by not voting green - even if the intention might not be to get green in power due to the numbers. It sends the signal that we want positive progressive policy and push back from all this jack-boot nonsense that started (let's face it) ages ago.
We need to get out of this spiral. The right-wingers are looking at the economy which they have baulked with their bullshit ruinous neoliberal agenda - and to save it for their own needs they're going to ask us all to suffer again via cuts and taxation delivered by Reeves. (Who's not going to balance the books in a month of Sundays.) And it's destructive and counter intuitive too.
The inflation by interest rate adjustment is not working - but will break something eventually. In the meantime interest income is being paid to wealth, and they've never had such a good ride with assets like gold and equities absolutely piling through the roof.
It's disgraceful.
It doesn't work for the majority. It will never work as it stands. Whatever form Labour take next they need a seriously bad kicking so the Labour right can go **** themselves.
The risk with the Greens is they double down further on Net Zero, one of the things absolutely having our pants down. Pretty sure we said the same about Labour after the Tories and look how that's played out.
Genuinely think the entire place is rammed full of inept individuals. I think the culture of politics either breeds them, or shapes them to be that way. Not sure we can vote ourselves out of this mess if I'm honest.
I voted Labour partly in hope that Starmer the supposed grownup would tell a few home truths to the Brexit types, Reform voters etc. The other part was quite simply to get the bloody Tories out.
GTTO was achieved, so box ticked, job done, no need for any allegiance as such. I held on for about the first 12 months. But Starmer just pandered more and more to the voters who are already lost to Reform. His speech about irreparable damage and an island of strangers did it for me. Frankly, he can go **** himself if he wants my vote again.
The only good news right now is that Reeves is starting to openly blame Brexit for the financial hole we're in. But the handling of this football match thing in particular has just shown how politically clueless this bunch are. Not only are they falling over themselves to pander to bigots, they can't even see the huge sign saying "elephant trap ahead". Starmer is playing Wile E Coyote and making Roadrunner Farage look like a political genius.
It's embarrassing. I've done my bit defending Starmer to my more gammony acquaintances.
The risk with the Greens is they double down further on Net Zero, one of the things absolutely having our pants down.
I think overall that's a good thing that needs some tweaking. (I'm sure Polanksi talked about that and reframing as 'lowering'. Not 100% on that and it's probaly still green party policy.)
And even if you're not keen on that framing - there are still a million reasons to be in a better place with the Greens.
Only Reform want to actually abolish net-zero targets I believe.
I think the communication is off - "the right" use net-zero to anger people. Like a lot of things the narrative needs changing to explain the benefits.
If we removed Net-Zero 'costs' on energy bills of 20% (which could be done easily) - or nationalised them even - I'm guessing the anger at net-zero might dissappear.
The only good news right now is that Reeves is starting to openly blame Brexit for the financial hole we're in
I actually thing she's doing that to shift the blame away from Labour's handling of the economy.
Her narrative still leaves 'good brexit' v 'bad brexit' on the table when it should really be bad 'trickle-down' got us here.
I'm guessing the anger at net-zero might dissappear.
I would imagine there is a wide spectrum of things that in combination could sensibly improve people's living standards and see a reduction in anger.
It is not limited to one issue, we might also need to be open to the fact that no one group or person has the monopoly on what those changes could be.
Quite a lot of things anger people and rightly so. We spend way too much time moralising their perspective. It's the activity confused as action issue which is not uncommon with those who think they know better than the thickos people who hold an different view.
there are still a million reasons to be in a better place with the Greens.
Better, or less shit?
I think we've got quite a few hard yards before we're out of the shit. I'm more than happy to give the Greens a go, but what if they're monumentally inept? Then what?
If we removed Net-Zero 'costs' on energy bills of 20% (which could be done easily) - or nationalised them even - I'm guessing the anger at net-zero might dissappear.
Or re-did the energy market so the price of electricity was not determined by the price of gas, and could take advantage of cheap renewables?
Absolutely!
One big rig.
Her narrative still leaves 'good brexit' v 'bad brexit' on the table
There is no good Brexit. There's degrees of shit. But Brexit in any form is bad for the UK. How can it be otherwise - distancing ourselves from the closest economies (stage, proximity, outlook etc)?
Brexit summed up perfectly by Marina Hyde in the Guardian the other day. It’s done now though, whether we like it or not, glorifying in its own stupidity.
When David Cameron blithely called the referendum on Britain’s EU membership, the then-Conservative prime minister may have thought he was offering a sensible we-know-best choice which could be swayed by the remain campaign’s hilarious strategy of coordinating letters to the Times from 100 big business leaders, or coordinating letters to the Times from 100 medium business leaders.
But what Cameron was actually doing was giving the British public a ****-you button, and asking: “Do you want to press it?”
There is no good Brexit. There's degrees of shit. But Brexit in any form is bad for the UK. How can it be otherwise - distancing ourselves from the closest economies (stage, proximity, outlook etc)?
I know but that's how Labour will spin it becuase they don't want to be seen to oppose Brexit.
Besides like a few of us have said for ages - Brexit can't and shouldn't take the blame for all of the failures of neoliberalism and Labour or Tory policy.
Brexit is a part of a much bigger problem. Being in the EU didn't deliver good living standards for many.
Labour are in an entirely reasonable position despite what they say to invest heavily in the country now. They're choosing not to. It has nothing whatsoever to do with being in the EU. No point looking for an excuse, that would be giving Labour far far too much slack.
Like i say vote Green and most positions become here aligned.
You don't say?
The madness of trying to balance books due to nonsensical economic misunderstandings about how to deliver for public purpose is the driving force of modern decline.
Labour are going to do it again despite what the evidence shows.
I know but that's how Labour will spin it becuase they don't want to be seen to oppose Brexit.
Well that's one of the reasons they've lost my vote after GTTO ceased to be a thing.
Being in the EU didn't deliver good living standards for many.
So how is not being in the EU working out then?
It's not like there is some magic utopian answer that will give everyone a unicorn that shits sunbeams. There will always be richer and poorer but there's no reason why even the poor should have to sit on trolleys for 24h in A&E.
Labour government in doing what a Labour government is supposed to do Shocka!
Here’s hoping that this signals more of the same, closing dodgy tax loopholes to stop high earners dodging it. If we work on the principle that if the right wing press is up in arms about it, then it’s probably a good thing… job jobbed
Tax raid on solicitors and GPs as Rachel Reeves targets wealthy
https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/rachel-reeves-ni-tax-rise-national-insurance-fc6w9dhv5