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the cops can rock up to a car wash and ask for everyone's ID.
But the government announcement says this won't be allowed - we won't all have to carry around ID at all times.
It's at best muddled and at worst downright deceitful.
It's at best muddled and at worst downright deceitful.
I don't think it is a bad idea. However, it has absolutely nothing to do with tackling illegal immigration.
However, Starmer only has eyes for Reform these days so every issue has to be tied to 'Stop the Boats!' somehow. However tenuously.
I still want to know how it can be smartphone only and not exclude folk
Very dystopian, this has Tony Blairs fingerprints all over it. Perhaps next we could link it to a social credit score.
"It is excessive state interference - and must be resisted" It's a rare day that I agree with comrade Corbyn.
Luckily for all of us this government is far too incompetent to actually put this into practice.
Nokia 3310's will be making a comeback.
However, Starmer only has eyes for Reform these days so every issue has to be tied to 'Stop the Boats!' somehow. However tenuously.
I reckon it is more than just trying to steal Nigel Farage's thunder. It's partly that but imo it is also because Sir Keir Starmer is using immigrants and refugees in a very similar way as Nigel Farage uses them.
Any reasonable politician with an ounce of honesty would point out to voters that the reason for their food and energy bills going through the roof, and all their other day to day struggles, has nothing to do with immigrants and refugees.
The problem is that Nigel Farage has no solutions to the real problems that effect ordinary working people's life's so he constantly bangs on about immigrants and refugees using them as scapegoats to deflect from the fact that he himself has no solutions.
Sir Keir Starmer now after over a year as Prime Minister finds himself in a similar situation. He clearly doesn't have the answers to the real problems that effect people's lives, that would require radical policies and challenging the failed economic orthodoxy.
Sir Keir isn't that sort of politician, the former DPP is an establishment figure who wants to maintain the status quo at all costs. So brave economic policies which would make a real difference to people's lives are mostly ignored and instead he bangs on about getting tough on illegal immigrants.
Although as rone pointed out on the previous page Starmer/McSweeney do appear to be possibly shifting a tad. Which is hardly surprising considering how internal Labour Party disquiet is growing.
I still want to know how it can be smartphone only and not exclude folk
Because the govt have already said it won't be smart phone only. From this announcement
In designing the digital ID scheme, the government will ensure that it works for those who aren’t able to use a smartphone, with inclusion at the heart of its design. The public consultation will engage with groups who aren’t as experienced with the digital world, like the homeless and older people, learning from other countries that have done this well.
Ah - not seen that. dunno how you can have a digital ID with no access to the digital world
I'm self employed and retiring next year. Can I tell them to **** off?
How long before unscrupulous people figure out how to harvest your government ID from third party sites
How long did it take in all the other countries that have government IDs?
How long before Lord Far Far sells all our info to Musk?
How long before Lord Far Far sells all our info to Musk?
Sell? I think he will follow the tories and new labour in paying them to have our data. Just see the latest "deal" with Palantir headed by one of musks paypal mafia associates Thiel. Someone who is probably worse than Musk since he actually keeps a bit more to the shadows. Amongst his recent "achievements" is being Vances investor.
Theres a lot of silliness over this, if you wear a Garmin or any smart watch, carry a mobile phone, use social media, have tesco clubcard, shop online, browse the internet..... guess what corporations already have more data on you than the government does.
Meanwhile we're the only country in Europe without ID cards, plenty have had them for decades, Ukraine jas a better developed eID than we do, some countries have been fully online for decades
Yet in the UK if you want to open a bank account, get a loan start a new job, hire a new employee, a driving licence get a loan or a mortgage.... You just have to produce your birth certificate/passport/driving licence, , print out 3 months bank statements, show council tax bills, utilities bills for the last quarter, paper versions and not copies either (despite all that stuff being online now) your last 5 addresses qnd your mothers maiden name.....
Yeah no wonder our productivity is through the floor , way past time the UK got with the modern world
I gave someone a printout of an online energy bill the other day to 'prove' my identity. I wonder how easy it would have been to use an AI to generate a fake one?
Theres a lot of silliness over this, if you wear a Garmin or any smart watch, carry a mobile phone, use social media, have tesco clubcard, shop online, browse the internet..... guess what corporations already have more data on you than the government does.
My favourite is people complaing about data collection...on facebook.
Well, if the eID announcement was designed to be a distraction and get people talking about it… job done.
Can anyone talk me through the Conservative objection to it though? We shouldn’t have a universal ID that everyone has (so not just passport holders and/or drivers), but we should have to have ID to vote? How do they square that one? You must have ID to vote, but everyone having ID is bad?
Theres a lot of silliness over this, ... in the UK if you want to open a bank account, get a loan start a new job, hire a new employee, a driving licence get a loan or a mortgage.... You just have to produce your birth certificate/passport/driving licence, , print out 3 months bank statements, show council tax bills, utilities bills for the last quarter, paper versions and not copies either (despite all that stuff being online now) your last 5 addresses qnd your mothers maiden name.....
Yeah no wonder our productivity is through the floor , way past time the UK got with the modern world
There is a lot of silliness over this.
1) I opened a Revolut account last month and it took about 3 minutes, all through the app. No ID card necessary
2) implementing a nationwide ID card programme to save 10 minutes in opening bank accounts isn't a great use of money
3) if ID cards are the key to productivity, then why are most of the other European countries (which all have ID cards) less productive than the UK?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_labour_productivity
Meanwhile we're the only country in Europe without ID cards
There are quite a few countries in Europe which don't have compulsory ID cards, the UK government is now committed to making ID cards compulsory.
And whilst "the only country in Europe" is a vaguely reasonable argument I wouldn't overemphasis it to support a position.
I made the analogy earlier of the police routinely carrying guns in Europe you could extend that to the use of teargas and water cannons. I actually appreciate how different the UK is to much of Europe when it comes to a lot of law enforcement issues.
You could extend that to plenty of other things too, such as vat on food. Apart from the UK only Ireland and Malta don't have vat on food however I think it would be a truly terrible idea if the UK fell in line with most of Europe and placed vat on food.
As far as compulsory ID cards are concerned I don't have strong opinions on the issue my only worry is the motivation behind the idea, why the **** is it going to be called the Britcard? How it will be implemented and used, especially with regards to immigrants and people who look as if they might be immigrants. And how its introduction might be possibly be abused by a Reform-led government in four years time.
Ha, this arrived in the post this morning. Before I can set up my online account for the pension my new employer has enrolled me into, I either have to entrust important documents to the postal service and then the pension admins, or go to the library, photocopy them, and then get some random to sign it. In 2025.
Can anyone talk me through the Conservative objection to it though? We shouldn’t have a universal ID that everyone has (so not just passport holders and/or drivers), but we should have to have ID to vote? How do they square that one? You must have ID to vote, but everyone having ID is bad?
Well from what I have heard Kemi Badenoch's objection appears to be based solely on the fact that it will be compulsory, she doesn't appear to be opposed to the principle of ID cards.
On the question of voting the Tories want proof of identity, it doesn't have to be a national ID card. So I don't see a contradiction there.
What's the Labour Party's position on voting btw? I have no idea. Have they scrapped the need for ID when voting?
Lib Dems oppose the cards as do Scottish greens . So I guess it's just Starmer and BLiar that want them.
Lib Dems oppose the cards as do Scottish greens .
youd maybe expect the greens to be luddites, but ironic for the lib Dems considering their former leader went on to become the Mouth of Meta
1) I opened a Revolut account last month and it took about 3 minutes, all through the app. No ID card necessary
2) implementing a nationwide card programme to save 10 minutes in opening bank accounts isn't a great use of money
3) if ID cards are the key to productivity, then why are most of the other European countries (which all have ID cards) less productive than the UK?
1) genuinely intrigued as to have we you proved your identity
2&3) 10 minutes not much but 44k accounts opened every year in uk according to Google , that's a chunk of productivity right there (not just your time but the businesses time), but it's not just that as pointed out on the last page the nonsense of getting a passport signed by a liat of approved professionals from the upper echelons of the Dickensian class system is particularly nuts
I had to renew my postal vote sometime in the last ~12 months, which I only did originally because of the silly vote ID rule brought in by the Tories, but I could have sworn that I requested for it to be my way of voting for at least several years. My passport and driving license both became invalid over ten years ago and I'd misplaced them before the '24 (found them since, might get away with them, albeit photo for both was from ~20 years ago, just googled and expired ones ok if photo is decent likeness).
I'm a bit baffled why Tories are against this digital ID.
Likewise why Reform are against it.
But then allegedly, Boris is against it too, as is Corbyn.
My passport and driving license both became invalid over ten years ago.
Neither of which are free to renew. Or get in the first place.
I’ve just read the LibDems email (was a member a long time ago) and I’d agree with their worries about becoming a “papers please” state… and about how vulnerable people could be excluded… but that’s where we already are, isn’t it? People without formal ID can already be in a difficult position when it comes to employment, housing, pensions etc. We already require people to show their “papers” for many things. I’m not sure if providing a free digital ID for everyone would further embed exclusion, or help reduce it. We need to know more before making that call, I feel.
Peter Geohagen rips into that plastic faced **** Larry Elison (oracle/and largest fundraiser for the genocidal IDF ****s) and Tony Blair for their desire for access to NHS data, then it'll be the id card data, and before long the tech bros will own you
I have no objection to ID since I used to carry one when I was in the far east. Over there when the police stopped us (speeding boy racers) the first thing they asked from us was to show them our ID card. If we could not show our ID, then it would be straight to the police station for hassling. i.e. nothing too serious but they would make us sit at the police station for the entire night/day etc to wait, wait, wait for something. Wait for what? Until our ID appeared then we got charged accordingly (sometimes not). LOL! In those days it was (still is) common practice to show ID in many places where legal documents were required. Then there was a period of fake ID boom, where migrants from neighbouring countries used them to by-pass whatever they needed to do.
Since the UK (Labour) govt is now trying to introduce ID (digital), I wonder if they have considered the implication in the event of security breach? (notice the recent events?) It will become more common in future. Or in the event of losing one's mobile through theft, damage etc? I mean unless you have backup hard copy as proof of your existence, someone may be able to take your existence or at least take over your identity temporarily. It is very possible.
I rather they issue me a smart card type ID (assuming the scheme got implemented) rather just a digital ID. I don't like to put everything in one basket especially my mobile.
Well, it looks like the era of ID is here in the UK but what is the end objective I don't know. I can only assume it is best use for tracking and controlling people. Or if the govt wants to hassle you, all they need to do is "delete" your existence etc and you will be "invisible" with no access to whatever. Also consider the dystopia scenario where your digital ID include the "traffic light" indication of your rights. I can see that coming.
and before long the tech bros will own you
that ship has sailed
I would assume the SNP will oppose as well and not mandate its use in Scotland for access to services. they did this already for house rentals iirc
yeah the people on Facebook 🙄 complaining about this are tying it to climate lockdowns and a ban on eating meat !
if you were wondering why Farage and co were objecting too this, that's your answer, it spins in nicely into their omniconspiracy grifts
I'm a bit baffled why Tories are against this digital ID.
They aren't totally against the idea, especially if the Britcard can be used to harass people who look a bit foreign.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/08/07/tories-compulsory-digital-id-cards-chris-philp/
The dilemma the Tories appear to be facing is in relation to the Britcards being compulsory, that would obviously require white anglo-saxon christians to also have them.
The authoritarian wing of the Tory Party is surprisingly committed to guaranteeing an English man's freedoms and liberties.
The petition against the Britcards has reached 1.6 million signatures now
Is it really being called “BritCard”, despite the fact it won’t be a card and will be used by people who aren’t “Brits”?!? If so, that’s some dumb ****ery there.
I’ve been looking to see where the dumb name “BritCard” came from. Just read the original proposal from LabourTogether… they have a bit of hope there that it could help reduce digital social exclusion… but it’s all very much ruined by the intro proposing that the reason it is needed is to EXCLUDE people who aren’t “one of us”. So, while I can see the practical advantages of fixing things like OneGov with a legislative approach to include everyone… if the reason given for this ID (so strongly) is to exclude “non-Brits” from civic life here… on those terms it should be rejected by anyone who wants the UK to be more inclusive, shouldn’t it? Still thinking out loud on this one.
The shitshow around McSweeney is coming out
https://twitter.com/jodymcintyre_/status/1971217938091999434
☝️ Blimey, that's what the real prime minister looks like. I've never seen a photo of him not wearing glasses
The shitshow around McSweeney is coming out
Sack of rats.
Blimey, that's what the real prime minister looks like. I've never seen a photo of him not wearing glasses
Lmfao. Has he a bit of Cummings with hair about him?
I can remember the good old days of Cummings bashing.
It's not so much being against a ID card it's just why now when there's 7000 other more important things to fix.
I wonder if it's because they haven't any good solutions to anything like you know homelessness and the COLC.
Nah not worried about those.
It will sink.
the reason given for this ID (so strongly) is to exclude “non-Brits” from civic life here… on those terms it should be rejected by anyone who want the UK to be more inclusive, shouldn’t it? Still thinking out loud on this one.
devil in the details, for sure, but biggest immigration scandal i can think of recently was Windrush, 50k+ people who were unable to prove their right to live here , britcard (cringe) could've avoided all of that.
of course a future farage government could try and use it to do his mass deportations and Trumps America is showing that you certainly dont need an ID card system to do that . Infact it could be used as a firewall against an incoming reform government against them doing it.
It's not so much being against a ID card it's just why now when there's 7000 other more important things to fix.
Why now? Because right now it is important to show that Labour are tough on illegal foreigners and are determined to use everything at their disposal to deal with the, quote, "incalculable damage" caused by immigrants.
What do you want them to talk about? Rising gas and electricity prices?
the nonsense of getting a passport signed by a liat of approved professionals from the upper echelons of the Dickensian class system is particularly nuts
You only need to do that the first time you apply for a passport...and that's exactly the same thing that'll happen to get you a BritCard for the first time.
The guy sitting next to me the last time I was at the passport office (ages ago) got his photo thing signed by the guy who ran his local off licence. Not very Dickensian.
There's a lot of "ID cards are good because they prevent this minor inconvenience" but it doesn't justify the time and money that would need to be spent on them.
There's a lot of "ID cards are good because they prevent this minor inconvenience" but it doesn't justify the time and money that would need to be spent on them.
as i pointed out 'minor inconvenience ' is just pointless red tape and that very much has a cost- look at Brexit!
A lot of that work is ongoing and will continue anyway. It’s needs legislation to be complete and as effective as possible though. So I wouldn’t worry about the cost of this thing… we’ll be paying to improve/integrate systems and their digital verification anyway. I would worry about it being used as a political distraction and another attempt to look tough on scapegoats.
It's not so much being against a ID card it's just why now when there's 7000 other more important things to fix.
Why now? Because right now it is important to show that Labour are tough on illegal foreigners and are determined to use everything at their disposal to deal with the, quote, "incalculable damage" caused by immigrants.
What do you want them to talk about? Rising gas and electricity prices?
Nah don't worry about that - it's only a vote winner that one.
It's just such a typically technocratic way of dealing with entrenched problems caused by not dealing with decline. That is to blame the foreigners for governmental short-cummings that deliver this sort of hatred in the first place.
It's not even a fix. It's stupid on every level.
No wonder neoliberal moderates love it. They love to support failure of centralised systems and that's what this will be.
There's a lot of "ID cards are good because they prevent this minor inconvenience" but it doesn't justify the time and money that would need to be spent on them.
as i pointed out 'minor inconvenience ' is just pointless red tape and that very much has a cost- look at Brexit!
Brexit was not a minor inconvenience
that's the point , you only need to apply for an EORI number and fill out a full customs invoice when shipping to the UK from the EU now....
thats literally one form it led to a huge drop in trade
https://bifa.org/2024/09/23/new-report-highlights-decline-in-uk-eu-trade-following-brexit/