Forum menu
That's an incredibly arrogant view.
Centrism is inherently conservative. It doesn't want to change anything fundamentally, just tweak it around the edges to make it work a tiny bit better, because radical change would almost certainly negatively impact those who currently benefit from the status quo. That seems pretty obvious to me, and it's hardly arrogant to say so.
What is arrogant is the centrist view that the way we run our economy and government is set in stone and cannot be changed. It's demonstrable nonsense, yet again and again we're told there is no alternative and anyone who disagree is either a dangerous extremist or deluded fantasist.
I'm confused.. By your logic a conservative is centrist?
Conservative is quite a wooly term.. Does that mean right wing?
How can a person or entity be both centrist and right wing?
Is the age of quantum politics upon us already? Lol
Centrism is inherently conservative.
Oh ffs everyone knows what centrist means, it is a euphemism for "right-winger" ! 🤣
Unlike Lefties right-wingers for obvious reasons don't like to be honest about their political leanings. When was the last time that you heard someone claim "I'm a bit of a Righty"? Never, I would hazard to guess.
There is no such thing as a centre position in politics, the only people who can genuinely claim to be neither left nor right are people who have zero interests in politics.
By definition centrist means political neutrality, I have never met anyone with any interest in politics who was politically neutral.
The reality is that the government has made it increasingly difficult for centrists to defend its policies
Naive of you to think that centrists would even want to defend some of this government's policies.
I can align myself with @mattyfez list and I consider myself to be Social Democrat.
I have no interest in debating politics on here, I hope I've made that clear enough.
it's incredibly clear that you have no interest in participating in this thread.
I didn't say that.
Happy to explain why I'm not debating politics, it's because of exactly that sort of snide comment.
Centrism is inherently conservative.
Oh ffs everyone knows what centrist means, it is a euphemism for "right-winger" ! 🤣
Unlike Lefties right-wingers for obvious reasons don't like to be honest about their political leanings. When was the last time that you heard someone claim "I'm a bit of a Righty"? Never, I would hazard to guess.
There is no such thing as a centre position in politics, the only people who can genuinely claim to be neither left nor right are people who have zero interests in politics.
By definition centrist means political neutrality, I have never met anyone with any interest in politics who was politically neutral.
The utterly blinkered opinionated bollocks is strong on this thread today.
Jonv seems to have made the right decision trying not to be dragged in to be told what he thinks/believes.
Naive of you to think that centrists would even want to defend some of this government's policies.
I am saying that they no longer want to defend the current government hence the ad hominem attacks as wonderfully illustrated by the now famous Taliban-esque rant.
So the current attorney general who happens to be Jewish is accused of falling foul of Godwin's Law and has allegedly now apologised to Nigel Farage and Kemi Badenoch for comparing them to the Nazis.
And yet I cannot see anything in that Guardian article in which he compares Reform and the Tories with the Nazis.
Hermer, according to the article, merely stated :
“The claim that international law is fine as far as it goes, but can be put aside when conditions change, is a claim that was made in the early 1930s by ‘realist’ jurists in Germany, most notably Carl Schmitt, whose central thesis was in essence the claim that state power is all that counts, not law.
There is no mention of the Nazis there and whilst Carl Schmitt did have a relationship with the Nazi Party he was influenced by the political philosopher Leo Strauss who was Jewish, he also later fell out with the Nazis, so he is probably not the best example of a Nazi, I would have thought.
Hermer also said :
"Because of the experience of what followed in 1933, far-sighted individuals rebuilt and transformed the institutions of international law, as well as internal constitutional law.”
Which sounds totally reasonable to me. International law was toughen up after WW2 because of the behaviour of the Nazis, so why not say it?
And what's wrong with making a comparison with the rise of the far-right today with the rise of the far-right in the 1930s?
I can't believe that Hermer apologised, in fact I would be interested in knowing more of what he actually said.
I could claim I can fly.. It's untrue but I can still make that claim.
Odd you say that, because it's not far off what you are actually claiming - that you, mattyfez, can define the centre of political thought, independent of any cultural, historical, psychological, religious or other biases. That's quite a pedestal to put yourself on - try not to look down!!
Pictures! Pictures! This thread needs more pictures!
Anything will do just as long as it keeps politics off the politics thread. Politics iz difficult.
Post or don't, but why do you feel the need to keep banging on about why you're not posting?
I can't speak for anyone else but I'd love to contribute to and learn from this and other political threads, but they've become so miserably toxic that it makes it incredibly hard to. And for all the "if you've got a problem with how someone posts in here, just say so" rhetoric on the The Forum Is Dead/Dying thread, the political regulars are so painfully thin-skinned that there's just no point.
The utterly blinkered opinionated bollocks
Mate it’s about politics, the whole point of politics is to be opinionated. The problem on this thread isn’t opinions, it’s the inability of some mostly centrist types to accept that anyone might not agree with them. instead of engaging in debate they dismiss a whole group of people as sixth form extremists or pompously dismiss any arguments as not serious or realistic.
I can align myself with @mattyfez list and I consider myself to be Social Democrat.
Today it was announced that Starmer's Labour government will plough billions of pounds of investments into the North and the Midlands.
This is widely seen as a response to the growing threat from Reform and represents one of the few genuine left-wing redistribution of wealth policies to have come from the current government since it took office.
Mattyfez's response to that announcement was "it absolutely stinks".
I think you might have redefined what being a social democrat actually means.
Pictures! Pictures! This thread needs more pictures!
Anything will do just as long as it keeps politics off the politics thread. Politics iz difficult.
"Oh ffs everyone knows what centrist means, it is a euphemism for "right-winger" !"
Stop talking shite then?
Odd you say that, because it's not far off what you are actually claiming - that you, mattyfez, can define the centre of political thought, independent of any cultural, historical, psychological, religious or other biases. That's quite a pedestal to put yourself on - try not to look down!!
A hilarious meme - last refuge of the centrist 🙂
The problem on this thread isn’t opinions, it’s the inability of some mostly centrist types to accept that anyone might not agree with them.
I don't think that it is the current problem with this thread. I think the problem is that they are doing their best to trash the thread because frankly Keir Starmer is proving to be an embarrassment to them.
Some keep away, some launch into ad hominem attacks, and some post pictures.
But none of them want to talk about Sir Keir Starmer and his government.
Odd you say that, because it's not far off what you are actually claiming - that you, mattyfez, can define the centre of political thought, independent of any cultural, historical, psychological, religious or other biases. That's quite a pedestal to put yourself on - try not to look down!!
A hilarious meme - last refuge of the centrist 🙂
I don't need a refuge, my views are my views...
Centrism for persons such as yourself just seems to be a 'catch all ' phrase to insult anything or anyone you don't agree with...
Why try to twist things? it's just not productive.
But none of them want to talk about Sir Keir Starmer and his government with you.
my views are my views.
and that’s fine but you seem to want to pretend that they’re universal and objective
The problem on this thread isn’t opinions, it’s the inability of some mostly centrist types to accept that anyone might not agree with them.
I don't think that it is the current problem with this thread. I think the problem is that they are doing their best to trash the thread because frankly Keir Starmer is proving to be an embarrassment to them.
Some keep away, some launch into ad hominem attacks, and some post pictures.
But none of them want to talk about Sir Keir Starmer and his government.
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt...
I have no love for Starmer, never have, never will.
Did I vote labour in the last GE? yes I did.
Why you may ask?
I saw that as better option than a tory or reform government, and as far as I can guage, I was completely correct in that judgement.
That's not to be confused with thinking I'm a fan of Starmer, or even a fan of labour, at all. In fact I'd take starmers labour any day over farrage or whatever patsy the conservatives chose as thier next leader.
As a voter I can only play the cards I'm dealt, so I chose the least worst option that stood half a chance of winning (IMO).
my views are my views.
and that’s fine but you seem to want to pretend that they’re universal and objective
And you seem to think that any one to the right of Pol Pot is right wing...do you not see how absurd that sounds?
Don't post false comments and I won't have to correct them. And stop with the personal attacks making out I'm some sort of effete softy which I find so very hurtful!
Seriously - I'm trying to not make this ad hominem but sometimes truth has to be told. To use the pub analogy, you know when the loudmouths arrive and you know that conversation's just going to go one way. So you quickly drink up and go to another pub. Red Lion, anyone?
And here we are.
This thread has had new life largely on the back of the 'Death of the Forum' one last weekend. It's not been a new life of sparkling political critique though, it's been one of people explaining why the threads have become stale. It's the busiest this thread has been in months, what with the delays in refresh sometimes there are 3 or 4 new comments to catch up on before you post again. Imagine!
It tells me that there could be life in this pub still, but the loudmouths need to actually consider whether they ARE the problem, or whether they still think everyone else just needs to adjust to their style. But I'm not seeing any evidence of that happening; in fact I'll predict I'll get 2 or 3 obvious comebacks from 'The Six' when telling would be for them to actually stop for a bit and do some introspection.
And you seem to think that any one to the right of Pol Pot is right wing...do you not see how absurd that sounds?
of course it’s absurd, which is why I’ve never said it. It’s not me that has been appealing to “mathematics” to prop up his phoney philosophy.
Whatever, dude, I'm out for now
Don’t let the door hit you
[quote data-userid="1990" data-postid="13582282"
Don’t let the door hit you
I haven't actualy gone, no such luck..but look! we can all do insults and take people out of context for scoring imaginary points!
I think you might have redefined what being a social democrat actually means.
I was referring to this list:
1.I belive we should have a health care system funded by general taxaton... So I'm left wing.
2. I belive we should have a police force, so I'm authoritarian.
3. I belive in a free market so I'm right wing.
4. I belive in things like bodily automity when it comes to things like abortion, That makes me a libertarian.
Not this in a different post:
I think it absolutely stinks..
To which you replied:
I know exactly what you mean, and it's a valid point.
But I'm sure you are aware of this.
Did I vote labour in the last GE? yes I did.
I didn’t. I could never vote for Starmer (Gaza) but I didn’t anyway. I voted Green. I didn’t imagine that they would win, but I hoped that if the major parties saw that there were a lot of people with Green sympathies they would alter their course. Probably that was naive but I also looked to the example of Syriza in Greece, who broke the 2 party system. You can argue about the outcome but it showed that a vote can count.
I haven't actualy gone
In the words of the country song - how can I miss you, when you won’t go away?
It tells me that there could be life in this pub still, but the loudmouths need to actually consider whether they ARE the problem, or whether they still think everyone else just needs to adjust to their style.
ChatGPT - write a response including the term “self-awareness”
The problem on this thread isn’t opinions, it’s the inability of some mostly centrist types to accept that anyone might not agree with them
Yeah, it's all those thin skinned over reacting centrists shouting down the poor lefties.
I haven't actualy gone
In the words of the country song - how can I miss you, when you won’t go away?
ooh..I do like a good country song, here's a Willie Nelson number for you... 😉
Do the Eagles count as country? because this thread is like... 😘
But none of them want to talk about Sir Keir Starmer and his government.
Alright, with my centrist, voted for Starmer hat on - they've been a ****ing disappointment. Failed to create a vision for people to vote for at the election. Got in on the back of an anti-Tory vote that split with Reform. Have then turned right wing on many of the big high profile issues to foolishly try and keep the perceived threat from Reform at bay, while quietly doing a few more left wing minor things.
They've been clueless, spineless, and next to useless. The fact that they are possibly less toxic than the Tories would have been is scant consolation.
But none of them want to talk about Sir Keir Starmer and his government.
Alright, with my centrist, voted for Starmer hat on - they've been a ****ing disappointment. Failed to create a vision for people to vote for at the election. Got in on the back of an anti-Tory vote that split with Reform. Have then turned right wing on many of the big high profile issues to foolishly try and keep the perceived threat from Reform at bay, while quietly doing a few more left wing minor things.
They've been clueless, spineless, and next to useless. The fact that they are possibly less toxic than the Tories would have been is scant consolation.
Agreed... it's not black and white... insinuating that anyone who voted labour last GE must therefore love Starmer and everything he does is just Trumpian levels of disingenuousness. It's utterly pathetic.
But none of them want to talk about Sir Keir Starmer and his government with you.
As you can imagine I am not massively disappointed ! 😂
But there appears to be no one on this thread that you want to discuss Sir Keir Starmer and his government with.
You do understand what the purpose of this thread is don't you?!?!?
I think it absolutely stinks..
To which you replied:
I know exactly what you mean, and it's a valid point.
But I'm sure you are aware of this.
Yup, I know exactly what mattyfez means, and it is a valid point, especially if you are a right-winger, I just don't agree with it.
Although I did say that I might if we lived in a classless society where everyone had equal access to resources.
I believe that Labour governments exist to serve the interests of working people above all others, which is why I posted that quote by Michael Foot in which he makes the point so eloquently.
Edit : Here is an example of someone who strongly disagrees with pre-Starmer Labour governments redistribution of wealth into deprived areas
But I'm not seeing any evidence of that happening; in fact I'll predict I'll get 2 or 3 obvious comebacks from 'The Six' when telling would be for them to actually stop for a bit and do some introspection.
STW - can I change my login name to Nostradamus. Or if that's taken, Clinton Baptiste?
But there appears to be no one on this thread that you want to discuss Sir Keir Starmer and his government with.
Oh, there's plenty.
I'm happy to discuss Starmer...
I'll give him 5.5 out of 10 so far.
That's not discussing Starmer and the government is it?
Just to add I class anything less than a 5 to be a failure..I'm only giving him +0.5 as he hasn't managed to crash the economy or piss the EU off too much yet, but it's not a high bar, and there's time.
I think the problem is that they are doing their best to trash the thread
🤐