I do not see any real downsides to the system used in Scotland.
Going back to the point about FPTP being good at keeping fascists and demagogues away from power: Russia's parliamentary electoral system is 90% the same as Scotland's ie regional reps + party list. The two systems produce wildly different outcomes. I don't think the choice of system is as important as people are making it out to be.
I don't think it's fair to describe Presidential elections (in the US or Russia) as being FPTP. There's only one position up for grabs, you couldn't really have a PR system for it.
STV is a type of PR and works well enough for such elections.
There’s only one position up for grabs, you couldn’t really have a PR system for it.
Of course its FPTP - large constituencies ie strates. Win a state by 1 vote, get all thats states votes in the electoral college. thats how trum,p won will less votes than clinton
STV is a type of PR and works well enough for such elections.
I do see what you're saying - but isn't that more a system for ensuring that the candidate that has a plurality minority vote at first round isn't elected (e.g. I have 21% and 4 other candidates have 19.75%)?
You can't proportionally allocate the votes of a Presidential election - ultimately 100% of the (single) seat up for grabs is going to be allocated to one candidate who will never have 100% of the vote (except North Korea).
FPTP suit’s governments as it gives one party total power most of the time. This makes it much easier to deliver what the party donors and owners have bought 😀
Yes but you can allocate the votes on a proportional basis or you can have 50 large constituencies that are FPTP
Win a state say California that has a number of representatives in the electoral college and you get all that states votes even tho you may have only actually got 1 more. Trump was elected with less votes than clinton.
It’s not really getting offended, just frustrated.
I had an equivalent conversation with a bloke at work this morning.
I gave up in the end.
Where was his knee-length anti-milkshake Barbour coat? Poor planning I say.
Tee-hee, well done Clackers!
He took that well... shame, it would have been so much better to do a Prescot!
Teenage Girl Throws Banana at Chief Gammon
(Daily Star headline tomorrow)
Perhaps a different system for amending constituencies than the present boundary system, would help. FPTP combined with changing boundaries promotes lengthy stays in power and continuous movement in policies away from centre.
@scotroutes You can’t really have STV unless you’ve multiple posts with the same constituency. If there’s only one post it becomes AV, which we had for metro mayoral elections until HMG decided they’d do better under straight FPTP. Might’ve cost Andy Street…
Banana milkshake apparently.
That said, I'm not keen on any politician being targeted in this way.
Farage is lucky he is a far right politician it has to be said though. They get drink thrown at them, left wing politicians get stabbed and shot in the street.
Win a state say California that has a number of representatives in the electoral college and you get all that states votes even tho you may have only actually got 1 more.
A couple of states do have a more balanced system although think even there its broken into districts which are FPTP.
She lets him have the paper cup for afters! 🤣
Dont know if this vid link works but this is ideology when it hits reality.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-69088663
Edit: Click on the farage radio vid. BBC Today.
Yeah, I'd go staged too. His minders were on the move towards the exit before he caught it in his frog-face.
JasonDS
Full Member
Yeah, I’d go staged too. His minders were on the move towards the exit before he caught it in his frog-face.
She and an associate have been arrested.
6 Tory candidates/MPs thinking of defecting to Reform...
https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1797992843580956672
Im also liking this 2 Tory MPs stood down and have popped up again as candidates in much safer seats
https://twitter.com/edwinhayward/status/1798014334045712611
I’m amazed it’s only 6! But that’s just the 6 known about by the press?
There are now so many disgruntled headbangers on the Tory backbenches, who’d be an absolute shoe-in for Farages latest vehicle. I’m sure they’ll have had Nige luring them over with promises of free red trousers and discounted shooting sticks
.And from their point of view, they’d be a lot happier with their party leader than they are presently
Why is the Left so violent and angry? You don't get conservatives throwing drinks over the awful Dawn Butler MP or screaming at Starmer's kids outside his house
(rhetorical question, the answer is obvious)
Conservatives prefer financial violence against the majority, inflicting lifelong hardship on working people, they are far too cowardly to actually confront the people they clearly despise. They have blood on their hands, they just do it from the comfort of their armchairs.
Why is the Left so violent and angry? You don’t get conservatives throwing drinks over the awful Dawn Butler MP or screaming at Starmer’s kids outside his house
(rhetorical question, the answer is obvious)
A Labour MP was killed by someone who was wrapped up in Right Wing based hatred.
Farage’s dry cleaning bill is nothing in comparison with that.
Why is the Left so violent and angry? You don’t get conservatives throwing drinks over the awful Dawn Butler MP or screaming at Starmer’s kids outside his house
My immediate reaction to the latest drink throwing incident was that it involved a disgruntled Rishi Sunak supporter.
Yours was different?
Personally I would like to buy Nigel Farage a beer to express my warm appreciation for his helpful participation in what increasingly looks likely will be the greatest election disaster for the Tories in 200 years.
@kimbers
Full Member
Thanks for posting that link about Jo Cox.👍
There in lies the difference between your average leftie protest and the stabby, shooty right wing type.
Let's be honest here, Farage has some blood on his hands over Jo Cox. Not everyone will agree but I've always seen it that way.
That being said, there's is no place in politics for violence of any kind, even where Farage is concerned... I can't lie though, I had a smirk on my face when I saw the vid.
I'm a bad person.
^^ That would be brutal for the SNP.
ThePinkster
Full Member
I’ve not been about for a couple of days so apologies if this has already been posted, but a friend has just sent me this photo.It’s a little bit cheeky of them to use the red banner that way
You've got to hand it to the Tories, they are low as snakes.
I'm another who strongly disagrees with the personal attacks and violence against any politician.
There's better and more productive ways to engage with the process and the politician.
And no one, no one, deserves to be fearful about doing thier job or standing up for something they believe in.
On the other hand there should be consequences for corruption, for hate mongering and abuse of power. And we have seen for some time now that the framework for disciplining MP's and political parties is not fit for purpose. When there is so much corruption and scandal at the top of the pyramid and those with the power to change it are those that abuse the system, then it is no surprise that those at the bottom of societies pyramid get a bit agitated from time to time, throwing a drink over some of these arseholes is letting them off lightly.
I am not advocating the murder of MP's obviously, but I think it is time the body politic took some bloody responsibility for their actions in creating these situations instead of playing victim when they get a bit wet or are on the receiving end of some verbal.
And no one, no one, deserves to be fearful about doing thier job or standing up for something they believe in.
To be fair throwing McDonald's milkshakes at Nigel Farage has become a British cultural thing now.
I think it is important to maintain well-loved British traditions. It's what makes the UK special and attracts visitors from across the world.
Anyway, seems like it’s not just the tories who are going to be wiped out.
FT poll tracker is currently suggesting 14 SNP 3 CON.
