check my understanding - are there any opinion polls this week? I have a vague recollection they stop close to the election because they are then at risk of influencing the vote, turn out, etc.
Only one that counts and that's measurable in hours away now.
PrinceJohn
Full Member
I see the tories have got the desperate stage of a majority is bad for Labour cos they’ll enact their polices, but it’s good for us to have a majority as we can enact our policies.
Epic,eh?
Also saying that Labour will "fix" future elections by letting 16 year olds vote whilst not mentioning all the voter ID bollocks that they have implemented which are biased toward older Tory (now Reform!😂) voters.
alanl
Free Member
“Genuine question, what did he mess up heading the DPP?”
It came up on FB yesterday. I know there were rumours about Rotherham rape gangs, but on closer inspection he didnt have anything to do with that. Jimmy Saville too, thats rather cloudy, CBA looking any further. First article from a search linked below, no doubt there are many more accusations if you have time to search:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/dec/23/keir-starmer-lawyer-dpp
Thanks for the reply. It wasn't what I expected too be honest though, but like I said, thanks for replying. 👍
theotherjonvFull Member
check my understanding – are there any opinion polls this week? I have a vague recollection they stop close to the election because they are then at risk of influencing the vote, turn out, etc.Only one that counts and that’s measurable in hours away now.
I think theres some due to be published & updating of MRPs etc
The stupid fake market stuff in England wastes 10% of the NHS budget – Scotland does not have this and admin costs are half! 10% of budget compared to 20% in England
The Landsley redisorganisation was abandoned in 2019 with the NHS Plan (which gave workarounds to support cooperation), fully washed away with the 2022 bill https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_and_Care_Act_2022 .
Stuff that was true 10 years ago has not been true for quite a while.
Also, Streeting corrupt? How so? His office gets funding from some venture capital guy,, whilst he's said the private sector can help shorten some waiting lists (which it is already doing and I personally think there's limited scope for it to do much more, but hey ) Whatever, this is all open. You may not like it but that doesn't make Streeting corrupt. Is there something else you know, or is it just another feeling?
alanl
On another point, I’m surprised Starmers record as DPP hasnt been put under attack. There is plenty of ammunition there
A bit tricky to credibly criticise him for his work as DPP considering David Cameron gave him a knighthood for it! Obviously doesn't stop the more crazy arms of the UK political scene trying.
check my understanding – are there any opinion polls this week? I have a vague recollection they stop close to the election because they are then at risk of influencing the vote, turn out, etc.
There are usually polls right up until the day, but then not polls (published) on the day until the vote closes.
They can't publish exit polls until the vote ends. Opinion polls are still allowed I think. Might be wrong on that though
On another point, I’m surprised Starmers record as DPP hasnt been put under attack. There is plenty of ammunition there, but I havent heard anything about it, maybe the tories have more skeletons in their cupboard than Starmer does?
The problem is, it's all bollocks. So best to rely on it being spread on Social Media, rather than raising it in interviews where it can be quickly and simply challenged for the blatant bollocks that it is by any journalist. It's all such bollocks that even journalists who lean right and would like to give Conservatives an easier ride wouldn't avoid pointing at the obvious bollocks... like doing an interview with an actual bollock hanging out of your shorts and expecting no-one to point it out.
I see the Tories use of their made-up nonsense 'Supermajority', which Sunak has been endlessly repeating, is going well...
https://Twitter.com/edwinhayward/status/1807190774330609750
The Landsley redisorganisation was abandoned in 2019 with the NHS Plan (which gave workarounds to support cooperation), fully washed away with the 2022 bill
The multiple extra layers of bureaucracy are still there. Not as bad but still there IIRC Several stages that just do not exist in Scotland.
Also, Streeting corrupt? How so? His office gets funding from some venture capital guy,, whilst he’s said the private sector can help shorten some waiting lists
he has taken huge sums from private medical interests and is insisting on further privatization - the private sector cannot help bring waiting lists down - they now have their own waiting lists and are at full capacity. He has been told many times by healthcare professionals that using the private sector will not help and his reply is to say he will pick fights with the professionals. Private helthcare is more expensive for worse outcomes. His ideas will make things worse not better.
Bought and paid for.
the private sector ... now have their own waiting lists and are at full capacity
Again, what's the source for that? It hasn't been my (totally anecdotal) experience having been provided a bunch of medical services through the private sector over the last year.
(I'm not, by any means, disagreeing with the idea that the NHS should be the primary and best provider of healthcare that's free at the point of use).
Personal experience. I and others in my family have had to resort to private healthcare. Mother had a 3 month wait for private hip replacement. Its been reported in the press as well
Of course they are nothing like the NHS waiting lists but the private sector simply does not have the capacity to make any real impact on NHS waiting lists. Of course they can increase capacity - by taking staff from the NHS
Streetings "solutions" will make the situation worse not better as it costs more to use private than NHS. He is willing to go against professional advice and knowledge. He has said he will fight with the professionals over this.
Private healthcare interests are not giving him this money for nothing.
Private helthcare is more expensive for worse outcomes
It really depends on what you're looking at. The bit of private medical my friend manages for the UK can deliver four times the throughput at lower cost to the NHS and the same success rate. This is for a high volume minor procedure. They don't want to do anything more complicated. This is free at the point of use for the patient.
There are some minor procedures and actions that private can do well, but only some.
Primary healthcare and consultations should all be NHS in my book, that people are having to use private for that is wrong.
In an ideal world the whole of healthcare would be NHS run, but we don't live in that world.
What we need to do is stop measuring the private provision against NHS as if it were like for like. The NHS picks up the most complicated and risky procedures so you're not comparing like for like the vast majority of the time
Primary healthcare
GPs? I thought they were all private and pretty much always had been. Free at the point of use of course.
Am I wrong?
Gps are an odd one. Private businesses but basically one customer
I do not believe its a good system but i wouldnt tamper with it now. One for long term planning.
Primary as in first contact with - not necessarily GP's. Don't focus on the use of that word, more the principal I was getting at.
My point was if you need to seek medical help, whether that be GP, A&E, self referral, you shouldn't need to pay to expedite being seen
My overseas postal vote hasn't turned up so I guess I am going to be one of the disenfranchised this election.
Contacted my local council back home to ask if they could set me up for an emergency proxy vote and apparently they can't. They said its not their fault as they dispatched on time and to "take it up with Royal Mail."
Democracy in action.
I see the Tories use of their made-up nonsense ‘Supermajority’, which Sunak has been endlessly repeating, is going well…
I suspect that for many it's not that they want to see a labour supermajority, rather they want an absolute, smoking, desolate ruin of a tory party on Friday morning. Big beasts* having to give congratulatory speeches to their opponents. Rishi having to admit he has been truly rejected by the people that matter, having not been selected by them in the first place.
We've discussed at length whether that is actually a good thing or not, whether it opens the door for a new centre right or just makes the remnants + Reform into a further right party instead. That's a problem for 8th July onwards. Right now, this is pure vindictive payback time, and I've got the coffee on ready for a late night on Thursday.
* those that aren't already running away and hiding
Postal votes have been very slow coming out, only got ours late last week. Don't think anyone was expecting a snap election.
Gps are an odd one. Private businesses but basically one customer
I do not believe its a good system but i wouldn't tamper with it now. One for long term planning.
Given its the one place all of us access the health service, I'd actually say that IS the place to tamper with. I suspect GPs though will not welcome the interference.
I suspect GPs though will not welcome the interference.
Considering the current models problems I am not sure that would be a significant issue. The ones which are working as partnerships could be left alone and then the rest slowly rolled up over time.
Its worth noting the mechanism was put in place under new labour for the gps to be rolled together under a corporate banner. After a slow start it picked up under the tories especially with Centene but they are now exiting the market since they found it unprofitable.
Think of all the UK based families on holiday this week. Slow hand clap for Rishi.
If they are too lazy to just order a private jet flight back for thursday before heading back out again there is no helping them.
Considering the current models problems I am not sure that would be a significant issue. The ones which are working as partnerships could be left alone and then the rest slowly rolled up over time.
The trouble would be that "new" NHS GP surgeries would pop up in towns and suburbs where there's growing demand.
Leaving the older partnership ones in outlying villages.
Which doesn't inherently make it a 2-tier system, but it would need very careful management to make sure of it.
That and there's already a shortage of GP's / appointments so you can't encourage those existing ones to leave and make way for in-house GP surgeries because they'd probably just retire.
I and others in my family have had to resort to private healthcare.
Whereas Streeting hasn't done so, either for his cancer or for a scan for a recent scare. He has talked about making it possible for people <b>who </b>can't otherwise afford it to 'resort' in similar manner. As a temporary measure.
Talking to the several GPS I know, it’s a shortage of GP’ numbers generally and in addition, trying to get the ones that do exist to move to rural unfashionable areas that’s the biggest issue. The NHS owning the practices rather than the Dr’s isn’t necessarily going to sort that.
Worth pointing out that not owning the practices has saved the NHS a lot of money in property, equipment etc overhead and that’s part of the reason the system has not been changed. Doctors themselves are only part of the cost in operating a General Practice.
GP’s will also tell you that they are constantly expected to move their practicing closer to the way the Hospital system works and that “those in charge” are mainly hospital doctors driving this. The GP’s I know feel this is not an approach that works because primary care in the community via GP is very different to providing secondary care in a hospital system.
This isn’t in my direct experience but I have been told various versions by several different people who are part of General Practice.
Worth pointing out that not owning the practices has saved the NHS a lot of money in property, equipment etc
Well, yeah, but also if GPs didn't have to cover their own overheads, then the NHS could pay them less and it wouldn't affect their take home pay. And perhaps if surgeries were more centralised with the facilities provided by the NHS like any other employer, then there could be efficiencies on property, maintenance, IT, this, that, the other.
Don’t think anyone was expecting a snap election.
Certainly not the Conservative party
About 10 years ago my postal vote did not arrive. I went to the polling station on the day to ask what to do, they gave me a phone number. I rang, they took it very seriously and that afternoon at work a lady appeared with a voting paper. I voted on the bonnet of her car, popped it in a special satchel and off she went. Awesome.
@politecameraaction possibly. It’s probably not quite as simple as it appears.
I suspect that the NHS gets a lot of that stuff for less now via the current arrangements than it would cost to provide it all from scratch / buy it back.
I don’t know enough about the detail of gp arrangements to comment properly, I’m sure others can.
edit: a quick google reveals.....
GPCE chair Dr Katie Bramall-Stainer pointed out that since 2019, CPI inflation increased by 21.2%, while core contract investment only increased by 12.5%.
( core contract is not just GP pay but what the business is paid to provide it’s GP service)
also see....
https://www.pricebailey.co.uk/blog/national-minimum-wage-increase-doctors/
I see the Tories use of their made-up nonsense ‘Supermajority’, which Sunak has been endlessly repeating, is going well…
They seemed perfectly happy and triumphant with their 80-seat majority last time round.
Typical bunch of bullies - they can't stand it when the tables are turned. Same reason many of them are standing down this election - they have no interest in being in opposition, they just want to be in power. So much for democracy.
If I hear anyone complaining about a Labour supermajority, I'm going to respond with "Will of the people!" 😂
There was a party political broadcast on channel 4 just now for the Social Democratic Party
Its like a cheese dream, which then turns to a nightmare when Rod Liddle pops up to endorse them. Rod Liddle?!! Who thought he’d be a vote winner? 😳
Don’t think anyone was expecting a snap election.
Ladbrokes might say there were a few expecting it.
🤣
Yeah, didn't know the SDP were still a thing till a few days ago. Basically standing on a Reform type platform.
At the end it almost sounds reasonable, "we want, blah, blah, blah...defence of our culture...."
Wait, what? 😁
SDP - wut?!
The name of their party gave me some hope and the fact they are appealing (or trying to appeal) to the politically homeless almost sucked me in.
Until their advert was basically recycling tired tropes about the main parties and then banging on about culture and immigration as if that is all they need to fix.
Least they will split the reform vote where they stand.
I work on the theory that if a country/party/anything (delete as applicable) has the word 'democrat/democratic' in it then it most definitely won't be.
I work on the theory that if a country/party/anything (delete as applicable) has the word ‘democrat/democratic’ in it then it most definitely won’t be.
Usually translates to "tyrannical authoritarianism" in the places where it applies to countries.
Democratic Republic of Congo
Democratic People's Republic of Korea (North Korea's official title)
RW political parties usually use it to mean "our version of democracy where we win". See also the Donald Trump thread.
And potentially anyone that didn't get there postal vote. Just read this on the Beeb. It doesn't go into any details but Google might throw it up.
If you haven't received your postal vote you can still ask for an emergency proxy vote.
With only 72 hours to go, you can do it online and the proxy is someone who votes on your behalf.
@ThePinkster You’ve clearly never seen a LD federal election pack.
Oh yeah, forgot about them. The exception that proves the rule? 😉
https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/voting-and-elections/ways-vote/emergency-proxy-vote
IDK if postal vote not arriving is considered an emergency, possibly expectation is that you should act before now on that point.
