right up until the point he suspended the candidates?
Harry Cole hit home with this (yes, I dislike him as well, but he got this right)... when Sunak was blustering along about investigations he just said... "surely, you know if you told these candidates the election date before they placed their bets"... ball totally in his court after that... had no choice but to drop the candidates named. More to come...?
Do we feel the actions of individuals here are more or less of a concern than something like the institutionalised Cash for Honours deals that heralded the end of the last Labour government?
I'm happy with whatever equivalence you need to keep yourself happy - as long as we're heralding the end of the current Tory government.
It's perfectly normal to be concerned about evidence of corruption in government, but probably more relevant to focus on ones involving the current lot rather than a Labour government of 15+ years ago. Unless you don't mind everyone chatting about the Westland Scandal, 'Cash for Questions', Suez, and the Profumo Affair as if they still mattered.
Do we feel the actions of individuals here are more or less of a concern than something like the institutionalised Cash for Honours deals that heralded the end of the last Labour government?
I think there is a particular issue with making personal profit out of it although since you bring up cash for honours. Whilst a bit out of date in 2021 it was reported how if you wanted a seat in the Lords probably the best option was to become the tory party treasurer and donate at least three million personally (okay this might be tricky for most of us).
Nine of them had been given a peerage from 2010 to 2021 along with another 13 major donors. Oddly several of those gave three million, got the peerage and then never donated another penny.
don't forget the Marconi Insider trading scandal of 1912
right up until the point he suspended the candidates?
As I understand it, he can't actually "suspend" them a party can withdraw support for a candidate now.
But seeing as voting slips will have been printed and have their names on, it's essentially too late, people will be able to vote for them, if they were to actually win (would be quite an indictment of the voters if they did though) that seat having been disaffiliated by the party they'd either have to take it up as an independent, or do the honourable thing and immediately stand down prompting a byelection.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the delay before action was so that Sunak could find out if any ‘big names’ had a flutter as well.
I think it was purely down to just trying to ride it out using the "wait for the official investigation" line. After all outside of another leak its unlikely to happen before Sunak is off to the USA.
However the gambling commission last night/this morning wrecked that option with their rather clever response telling labour "no we wont give you all the names" and the tories "you dont have to wait for us".
Do we feel the actions of individuals here are more or less of a concern than something like the institutionalised Cash for Honours deals that heralded the end of the last Labour government?
reiterating from 5 pages back but it still stands
Someone famous once said that the past is another country.
So trying to make an issue from 2010ish relevant for an election in 2024 is overreaching.
In the here and now - Let’s talk about corruption/bad morals in Sunak’s Tory party (gambling allegations, dodgy HoL nominations, Tees Enterprise Zone, PPE VIP Lanes, Hester donation), and what corruption/bad morals in Starmer’s Labour party looks like (errrr.....), and there is clearly no equivalence…....
I know, i know, we should stop feeding the troll......
tjagain Full Member
How long do you think it should take?
couple of weeks tops.
TJ - have you ever been involved in an asylum application? Have you ever read one? Do you know what has to be proved for an application to be successful?
Edit to add: it's currently 3 weeks for DVLA to swap paper licences for photocards, which seems a bit (cough) more straightforward.
https://www.gov.uk/exchange-paper-driving-licence
" a well founded fear of persecution" ????
Aye OK - couple of weeks is pie in the sky. A question tho: does it need to be that complex? could they just get the right decisions first time so we do not have to have so many successful appeals? could they not make it easier to go thru?
Oh - and just 'cos DVLA is slow as a glacier does not mean it has to be that way 🙂
5 met cops being investigated for betting
i do so hope more Tory MPs get caught too
and first post farage-putin love in shows a reform dip
https://twitter.com/electpoliticsuk/status/1805582226429538532?t=fY4ruBC2HHSMZPn1ek7lrg&s=19
At government level we saw the same. Countries outbidding each other for supplies in the millions, imposing export bans and so on. Every part of the world wanting them immediately not in two years time, so normal six month procurement processes would clearly not have been appropriate – you placed an order immediately or some other country did, knowing you were paying over the odds and possibly something was wrong, but had to secure supply.
A labour government would have been in the same situation at the time.
Oh, so a Labour Govt would've stripped out resources and ignored Test Event findings & recommendations?
https://www.bma.org.uk/news-and-opinion/pandemic-preparedness-warnings-were-ignored-hears-inquiry
just ‘cos DVLA is slow as a glacier does not mean it has to be that way
I saw a tweet apparently of a screenshot of the old TV programme Driving School. Maureen had failed her test on a Tuesday so was going to have to wait until Thursday to try again. Good luck getting one within a month nowadays!
Same as that clip of Blair getting a telling off from an audience member on Question Time because "I phoned my GP for an appointment and ask they could give me was one tomorrow or the day after, but I didn't want to see them until next week"!
And this is a reflection of the mess we're in with basically all public services. I'm probably well into the "sixth former" region of binners' political spectrum 😉 but at this point, with how degraded public services are, I'd be quite happy with a rerun of New Labour and the investment that comes with it ("get the bus that's going in the right direction" etc etc). My worry is that we'll actually get Cameronian austerity 2.0 which will just continue to make everything worse.
Oh, so a Labour Govt would’ve stripped out resources and ignored Test Event findings & recommendations?
They probably will in future, they'll kind of have to if they're going to follow the plans they've set out in their manifesto:
Applying the listed “extra” spending pledged by each party to a real terms base case for total health spending annual growth of 0.8% would result in the next four years being the tightest in NHS history under the Conservative and Labour pledges – tighter even than the coalition government’s “austerity” period,
If you want to know how degraded public services are: fall off your bike, injure yourself badly but not life-threateningly, then phone an ambulance.
NHS will be fine under labour. Streeting is going to use the private sector to solve all evils
If you want to know how degraded public services are: fall off your bike, injure yourself badly but not life-threateningly, then phone an ambulance
And count yourself it's not life threatening:
More than 250 patients a week could be dying unnecessarily, due to long waits in A&E in England, according to analysis of NHS data
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-68707883
Which is 250 reasons per week for the Tories to be out, but we need a change from what got us into this mess, and it wasn't giving away dodgy peerships, it's continual underfunding of public services. Doing the same but without the 'PPE contract for your pub landlord' element won't fix anything, people won't see anything improve so will boot Labour out after 1 term.
“ If you want to know how degraded public services are: fall off your bike, injure yourself badly but not life-threateningly, then phone an ambulance”
Showing up at A+E with chest pains, then spending 12 hours there was an eye opener and I jumped the queue a bit.
Having been on occasion a bit clumsy, I’m not a stranger to A+E, but it has been a while.
So possibly 1000s of Richard Holden's leaflets have been delivered to the wrong constituency addresses
what a terrible mistake, how could it ever have happened?
its almost as if the local conservatives bitterly resent him shoehorning himself into the 'safe' seat against their wishes
https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1805600607169896822
Showing up at A+E with chest pains, then spending 12 hours there was an eye opener and I jumped the queue a bit.
I called 999 with chest pains a couple of years ago. 4hr wait. I spent 8hrs or so on the tiny plastic chairs and ended up being ok. I presume they made a calculated judgement based on the fact I was the one who made the call...
They probably will in future, they’ll kind of have to if they’re going to follow the plans they’ve set out in their manifesto:
I'm not paying a lot of attention to it TBH as it's just like when I've taken on a new job or inherited a new team - I've 'ideas' but without actually seeing the actual state of things, they're only 'ideas'.
First thing is do an 'audit'.
Then budget/rebalance needed (late autumn I would guess); that's when Starmer is able to tell us what he believes the priorities are, for short, medium and longer (subsequent parliaments) terms. 14 years will take a lot of clearing up.
First thing is do an ‘audit’.
Then budget/rebalance needed (late autumn I would guess); that’s when Starmer is able to tell us what he believes the priorities are, for short, medium and longer (subsequent parliaments) terms
And this is how rejoining the EU becomes a Labour imperative if he is to grow the economy.........
Here's hoping!
bails
They probably will in future, they’ll kind of have to if they’re going to follow the plans they’ve set out in their manifesto:
Sorry, only quoting you due convenience rather than "taking aim" at you as it were! That's not my intension mate.
It's now abundantly clear that Labour will either have to borrow, increase taxes or both to improve the countries public services.
Starmer has categorically said he will not put the country through austerity v2.0. He also knows that if things like the NHS are not objectively better, in say, 2 years? There will be a huge backlash and they will be a one term government.
So, why lie in the manifesto? I dont just mean Labour here, every party that has had their manifesto spending pledges analysed has been found wanting. All of them.
Well...
People rightly are up in arms about the NHS for instance but if Labour went into the GE announcing huge borrowing/or tax increases, no matter what the electorate say concerns them, a good segment wont vote Labour. Simple as that.
Everyone wants a good and well funded NHS but when it comes down to it, in the privacy of the voting booth, there is a statistically large enough amount of people that won't vote for a party that makes it plain they will have to pay more for it. Add in more borrowing for benefits/social care and to help the "sick note lot" and you compound the problem and the loss of votes.
I said it recently and I genuinely believe it, politicians lie because we make liars of them. A large section of society want simple AND cheap solutions to complex problems.
The politicians that "talk the truth and say what we are all thinking" can get away with it as they won't be held to account and they know it. Trump is an exception because he is a religion and of course he IS lying...
Sticking with the NHS here. I genuinely believe Labour want to improve the NHS, it's fundamental to their party and always has been. Even many Tory voters tend to acknowledge that the NHS functions better under Labour, "but that's because they throw huge amounts of OUR money at it!"
The shit thing is that they (Labour but any party really) know they have to lie to us about what they will need to do to improve things as the electorate (or rather, enough of it...) are proven turkeys voting for Christmas.
"You can't trust people Jez."
Anyway, just my take on things.
Linking back to binners post early about child poverty
The Starmer U-turn I'm hoping for is on the two child limit for benefits. It's a performative and cruel policy that has very little impact on UK finances, but punches families down into poverty
It's frankly embarrassing that the 6th largest economy in the world can't look after it's children
spawnofyorkshire
Full Member
Linking back to binners post early about child povertyThe Starmer U-turn I’m hoping for is on the two child limit for benefits.
Absolutely agree there. Financially it's the least of the governments worries, buys good will but most importantly it's the *right* thing to do.
Jonathon Ashworth talking to Victoria Derbyshire was talking about incrwases in growth being the route for Labour to achieve their financial goals.....and this report in the Graun shows lots of discussion about challenge of doing this outside the EU ....
Sorry, only quoting you due convenience rather than “taking aim” at you as it were! That’s not my intension mate.
No worries, not taken that way at all.
I think you're right that there's a lot of hope that we're being lied to!
susepic
Full Member
Jonathon Ashworth talking to Victoria Derbyshire was talking about incrwases in growth being the route for Labour to achieve their financial goals
Yep, short term, it's not going to happen... if we were still in the EU... who knows but regrettably we aren't.
It's a smoke screen, we all know there is going to be (increased) and hopefully, targeted tax increases.
I suppose it's odd that I'm relaxed about the huge fib of a manifesto to some?
In all honestly, it's because the fib is a necessary one to actually get Labour in and to start rebuilding the country.
I'm rather tired of Tory fibs as they are soley about improving their and their friends wealth.
That's the defining difference for me, the intent.
A Labour candidate suspended for betting on the election
how can he have had advanced knowledge of the GE?
actually he sounds like douchebag
bails
I think you’re right that there’s a lot of hope that we’re being lied to!
Yeah, it's an odd position to be in and in an ideal world we wouldn't want to be lied to but this is where we are in reality. Hell, I don't really feel lied to, I think most people know Labour aren't going to"grow"us out of this mess. Not for years anyway.
It's a little like when a nurse says, "you'll just feel a little scratch" as she darts you. A lot of the time it's a bit more than a little scratch and you knew it would be.lol... but it's well meant and the blood test is very much necessary.
Is skooby planning these responses? The whataboutery is exceptional, if very diverting
As well as steadfastly avoiding the specific question about why the so-called VIP Lane actively excluded established PPE providers who were holding stock of certified grade PPE in Q2 2020 and were making that known to the government regularly during that period.
Arco were actively excluded in favour of a startup company, run by a Tory peer, that didn't have any actual PPE, and delivered unusable shite once it had been shipped. Arco were not invited to be part or all of the solution. They were actively excluded to the benefit of the likes of PPE Medpro.
If Skooby can come up with a good reason for this, I'd be glad to hear it. Otherwise I'm just skipping over his/her drivel from now on.
Seeing all this stuff about the NHS reminded me of Labour's last term in office. The Tories had privatised just about everything easy to sell but Blair wanted quick cash. The NHS was unsaleable because, less face it, it's nver going to be profitable. BUT, it had a load of property which could be flogged off and rented back to the NHS.
This time Labour have dropped " the NHS is not for sale" between it's pre-manifesto and the actual manifesto.
Anyhow:
https://www.yournhsneedsyou.com/timeline/
That’s the defining difference for me, the intent.
Uh huh and what about those who were happy with 350m on a bus or the claims we would still be in the common market etc etc because what mattered for them was the intent of getting out of the EU.
Lying is lying and will just help lower the expectations of politicians in general and allow the next bunch of lying tory bastards to go one step further still.
Arco were actively excluded in favour of a startup company, run by a Tory peer
Forget about the political optics for a moment and thinking about it purely from a humanitarian perspective - that's an unforgivable manoeuvre. You'd have to have a very very good reason to exclude a company balls deep in the world of PPE for decades as part of your response.
There's a few things I'm hoping we'll find out about once the Tories are out
- the Russian influence in our elections and Brexit. The report got buried on that one
- the full extent of corruption surrounding the VIP lane
- the outcome of the COVID inquiry. How many died because of them
- all the reports on climate change that have been buried/parked until after the election
- all the education reports that have been left on a shelf
- all the remaining reports from the immigration tzar that haven't been released (the ones he didn't leak)
