PPE is on the BBC this morning. If you don’t like waste, then look away now.
I genuinely would have no issue with the waste if it was justifiable and ethical. In the mad scramble some overbuying simply to secure orders was probably necessary. But the corruption by tory politicians around PPE procurement was disgusting.
Mone got exclusivity at the expense of kosher suppliers with kosher stocks by using the VIP lane. She pocketed £29m by putting lives at risk with shonky PPE. Including my wife - who I begged to invoke her history of respiratory illness to avoid face-to-face 'service' but she refused as she didn't feel her condition was serious enough to warrant it.
I am still angry when I think about that. I haven't seen Michelle Mone using any food banks lately, so I can only assume crime pays - if you're a well-connected Tory crook, that is.
dissonanceFull Member
but didn’t think to bring some alcohol free beer for him.
Why if he doesnt like it regardless of the alcohol.
Why? Because it makes for a strange photo, at what is supposed to be a photo opp. Although I assume a photo-op in a pub with a teetotaler was arranged by the same person that though an event at the titanic museum was a good idea on day 1 of the campaign, or announcing the election in the pissing rain. That said, this could have been very easily mitigated with an ounce of forethought, and a bottle of alcohol free beer.
This itself is obviously not the issue - the point is the competence of the campaign seem to be commensurate with the competence of his government/MPs etc. I'm still amazed at the abject stupidity of an MP sending dickpics to a stranger on the internet, and now we have loads betting on the date of the GE.... they are just Muppets
@ElShalimo you have misunderstood my point completely.
Those fleeing conflict zones (among others) are fully entitled to come here to claim assylum. That's what the system is for. I'd put on free boats or planes for such people to avoid them having to risk their lives in overloaded dinghies.
But there's more to it than that. According to a Guardian article there are indeed plenty of people who are being promised better lives as economic migrants presumably by people trying to take their money. The lack of genuine information plays into the hands of the unscrupulous who convince them to take the trip.
nowt wrong with a pint of water so long as it is in the correct glass. Never a dimple jug only a straight glass.
Oh, right, that's is why it looks weird. Was trying to put my finger on it, but that's it.
the people smugglers are breaking the law and deliberately circumventing the processes we have; and also recklessly endangering lives with very unsafe practices.
This is a pretty odd position where you are sympathetic to people coming by any means necessary but the people who are actually the ugly tool for making it happen are criminals and queue jumpers. It's sympathy for the people arriving but only in the abstract - only if they use Fairtrade approved people smuggling services that pay the London Living Wage with an A rating on Trust Pilot. Of course they break laws and it's dangerous: the laws are designed to limit people crossing borders! There's a reason BA and Eurostar won't take them.
I’d put on free boats or planes for such people
Well, go on then..
The lack of genuine information...
What information do you think the Vietnamese migrants are missing out on? How would you know?
Plenty of issues with asylum seekers in the UK - the fact it takes 2 years or so to ascertain their status, the fact that UK law breaches international law. The fact that there are no legal routes to claim asylum for most refugees.
Smallboats are a tiny part of the issue.
nowt wrong with a pint of water so long as it is in the correct glass. Never a dimple jug only a straight glass.
Teetotal or not - If I was in Rishi's shoes that would be a pint of neat gin and deep seated hope I could just wake up again in 10 days time with a headache and it will all be over.
Plenty of issues with asylum seekers in the UK – the fact it takes 2 years or so to ascertain their status
How long do you think it should take?
Meanwhile, the results of 14 years of Tory misrule just keep on landing
Low wages under Tories have pushed 900,000 UK children into poverty, report finds
the fact it takes 2 years or so to ascertain their status
A common theme across all the conservative party's managed failure of public services is using under-resource of necessary public services to drive tax payers money into private hands.
The desperately slow processing of asylum claims is because the government is shouting about asylum but failing to resource its own commitments - the result of that under resource isn't spending less money - its spending more money - not on home office staff, or border patrols - but on hotels.
The desperately underresouced social housing sector is resulting in increased homelessness - doesn't result in less government expenditure but more government expenditure - not on house building, not on government or council-run supported acccomdation and homelessness services - but on hotels.
In some parts of the country - half your council tax - HALF OF YOUR COUNCIL TAX - is being spent on hotels.
Social care budgets, half way house services, addiction services and so on and so on - they're all being used to build private property portfolios with public money.
This is a pretty odd position where you are sympathetic to people coming by any means necessary but the people who are actually the ugly tool for making it happen are criminals and queue jumpers.
That seems to be the accepted position from what I've read (in the sympathetic press) yes. People smugglers aren't doing it out of altruism, generally speaking, they seem to be exploiting the vulnerable which is a bit of a no-no as far as I'm concerned.
What information do you think the Vietnamese migrants are missing out on? How would you know?
Presumably that they aren't entitled to permanent settlement; that they will be exploited; that the safe passage and better life they're promised is a lie.
Plenty of issues with asylum seekers in the UK
Yes, and this is my main point (rather than the fine details which I clearly am not in a position to address) - that we could be doing a lot more than simply rounding them up, detaining them and shipping them somewhere else. To bring it back to the topic in hand - what we need is a government that wants to work to solve issues properly.
Maybe information campaigns would help, maybe not - I just pulled that off the top of my head after all - but let's have that discussion properly, with intelligence and compassion.
@maccruiskeen nails it!
It’s all about driving public money into private hands
Their latest (very profitable) wheeze, to provide ‘solutions’ to the problems they created through underfunding of councils, is once again to monetise the plight of the most vulnerable in society
They really are vermin
Nowhere else is available’: how vulnerable children end up in illegal care homes
Well because the people smugglers are breaking the law and deliberately circumventing the processes we have
@molgrips what proceses are they then?
How does someone enter the UK and claim asylum as part of the process? Any process.
There's a reason they're using small boats and it's not to get around some documents and heel kicking.
Elections, pretty much any election, fail to get me excited because I feel I just don't really have a say in it.
My area has been Labour since the 60's. The MP has been here since 1997 I think. I've had one leaflet so far, from Labour, no one else is bothering. They always win by something like 15-20,000 votes.
I'll probably vote anyway, just feel like it's pointless. Yeah I know on a national scale it does matter ('if everyone said that' blah blah) but practically speaking, my vote counts for nothing at all.
Well because the people smugglers are breaking the law and deliberately circumventing the processes we have
Suella Braverman, as home secrretary (so obviously an authority on such matters) explains those safe and legal routes available to asylum seakers wanting to enter the UK.
I've been working over the last 2 months in one of Manchesters less salubrious areas, directly across from a hotel used to house asylum seekers. A Holiday Inn. My window looked out on it. Its a pretty grim existence. They're out in the car park playing footy (when its not lashing down). The idea of being housed there for 2 whole years doesn't really bear thinking about.
Some people drink water by the pint. I do. What’s the point of a thimble of water on a warm June day?
Absolutely agreed. Hot day, probably been on bus all day, first chance for a big drink of water. Neck a pint of it when you have the chance. Really strange thing to criticise someone for.
On PPE and covid era I'm surprised there weren't more decisions that can be presented as poor in hindsight. On a retail level, shops at some points were selling single masks for £5-10 that were worth 10p as if you forgot one you weren't allowed in the supermarket. Most homes in the country will have ended up with a box of them somewhere in a cupboard they will never use or that the elastic broke every time on.
At government level we saw the same. Countries outbidding each other for supplies in the millions, imposing export bans and so on. Every part of the world wanting them immediately not in two years time, so normal six month procurement processes would clearly not have been appropriate - you placed an order immediately or some other country did, knowing you were paying over the odds and possibly something was wrong, but had to secure supply.
A labour government would have been in the same situation at the time. We've schools still locked into 30 year PFI contracts from the last Labour government that mean they can't re-arrange the chairs without a fee, pay £302 to change a plug and have a company linked to Labour cronies cut the grass weekly all winter.
Not a dig at Labour, point is they are all just as bad as each other. To my original point, there's no material difference between the L and C ideas for the next term, or new money to make big commitments.
I’ve previously supported Labour - especially under Corbyn but I’m generally of the thought that you vote them out, not in.
Im in a solid Conservative area and the tactical vote is LD incidentally LD are the only flyers and placards I’ve seen in the area.
I was pleased to see this note from Tom drop through the door.
[url= https://i.postimg.cc/tYjLzysF/IMG-3759.jp g" target="_blank">https://i.postimg.cc/tYjLzysF/IMG-3759.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
Are you seriously suggesting that the 'VIP Fast Lane' wasn't just a free pass for their mates to get their snouts in the trough?
Would you like to by these beans I have here? They're magic beans! Honest!
Absolutely agreed. Hot day, probably been on bus all day, first chance for a big drink of water. Neck a pint of it when you have the chance. Really strange thing to criticise someone for.
IT'S. A. STAGED. PHOTO. OP.
The point (and I can't believe it needs making again, but here we are) is that the conservatives can't seem to even organize a photo-op in a pub without cocking it up.
Sunak has withdrawn the Whip from 2 candidates, presumably its the 2 we know about already!
utterly predictable & ridiculous that he let it drag on so long
Well because the people smugglers are breaking the law and deliberately circumventing the processes we have
there are no legal routes for the folk using small boats - thats the issue. Deliberately done by the tories to create a "crisis" so they can exploit it. Also when we were in the EU there was agreements in place to return folk. Now there are not.
UK law is in breach of international obligations.
skooby39
Absolutely agreed. Hot day, probably been on bus all day, first chance for a big drink of water. Neck a pint of it when you have the chance. Really strange thing to criticise someone for.
Not seen the video of the walk around in the Tory battle bus I take it? Noone is dying of dehydration there but that's hardly why I posted the picture.
He's the PM, his campaign is all over the news for it's (shocker) incompetence. All the leaders are under a microscope.
Images matter in a campaign, everything matters and he himself invited the "strange criticism" with this wonderful start to his campaign:
Not a campaign pic, just Sunak totally showing he is a man of the people with a good head for finance and contactless payment methods. Oh, and he fills up strangers cars on the forecourt. Which is nice:
After a wonderful start to the campaign he decides to continue telling us what a wonderful utopia we live in from where the titanic was built:
How does someone enter the UK and claim asylum as part of the process?
When you get to the border you tell the border official that you are claiming asylum and that starts the process.
I suspect that the traffickers will tell people that when you get off the boat Dave will meet you and take you to your new home, but Dave does not exist. Something along those lines. Or if he does, he'll take you to a sweat shop of some kind and take your phone away.
(I cant add more pics to my post for some reason. )
Remember this picture posted endlessly by the RW press during a certain campaign skooby39?
You might not like my pictures as it doesn't fit your narrative but perhaps you need to contact Sunak's campaign team about it skooby39?
When you get to the border you tell the border official that you are claiming asylum and that starts the process.
IIRC the tories passed a law that if you arrived by unconventional routes you can no longer claim asylum. so this no longer works unless you have full papaers and arrived on a routine mode of transport. which is 99% impossible.
Basically there are no legal routes to claim asylum in the UK
In other news the totally non arrogant and competent Tory party has finally convinced the totally non arrogant and competent Sunak to start enacting the inevitable betting scandal U turn...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cqqqqx25rz0t
Hang on – I thought we had to wait for the report from the official investigation by the Gambling Commission?
Oh, they have assured us it doesn't prejudice the gambling commissions investigation which is totally why they have held off from suspending them for so long.
Nothing to do with the media tearing him apart at every opportunity they get. Then his own party tearing into him.
Ahem.
Brighter news..Canadians dealing with illegal immigrants in a way we can all get behind.
https://twitter.com/I_amMukhtar/status/1805490793035026603
Sunak has withdrawn the Whip from 2 candidates
Do candidates even have the whip?
IT’S. A. STAGED. PHOTO. OP.
The point (and I can’t believe it needs making again, but here we are) is that the conservatives can’t seem to even organize a photo-op in a pub without cocking it up
They launched the campaign by failing to even manage to organise an umbrella.
Just had the reform lot round sadly they are being very well received due to ending net zero of all fu*king things.
its not hype as I've had some of the old Tory guardians (think conservatives with a very small c) tell me they are doing well in the Darby and Joan type clubs.
They have abandoned the Tory mp here as he has gone absolutely AWOL and sadly its left them with reform or labour and not many will go red as the local council has been historically red and a shit show of dithering.
If people don't vote it's going to be tight here.
**Don't hate me for knowing torys not all the apples in the barrel are rotten and full of bitter hate. ***
The really bad ones don't even like the traditional ones 😄
I did have a good talk with one of the labour camp on the doorstep and they know it's going to be tight
martinhutch
Full Member
Brighter news..Canadians dealing with illegal immigrants in a way we can all get behind.
That's just utterly joyous! I mean absolutely bloody joyous!
He lied about having a conviction when he entered the country apparently.
Bloody criminal immigrants. 😂
Longer John Oliver video in this tweet
https://twitter.com/implausibleblog/status/1805513574921441612
I don't think Sky can show this due to purdah laws but well worth a watch
IIRC the tories passed a law that if you arrived by unconventional routes you can no longer claim asylum.
I THINK you're right, but I also think it's not being used as it directly contradicts our obligations to the Refugee Convention and would fall on its arse if put to the test. Instead, they're just processing claims really slowly and hoping for the best.
I also read that Sunak's method of reducing the waiting list was taking people off it and putting them on a different list that didn't count.
Are you seriously suggesting that the ‘VIP Fast Lane’ wasn’t just a free pass for their mates to get their snouts in the trough?
Would you like to by these beans I have here? They’re magic beans! Honest!
Quite.
Perhaps Skooby can come up with a reason why Arco - who are a pukka supplier of PPE and had stocks in Q2 of 2020 - were excluded from the VIP lane despite offering their services on many occasions...?
I know this for a fact because I spoke with a friend who is a senior manager there about a year later. Various employees had asked the directors why, during Q2 of 2020, their stocks were not being utilised. My friend's phrasing was "That Baroness woman mate of Cameron's who used to sell bras got in their and we were excluded". I'm pretty sure the Arco CEO is now on record at one of the covid enquiries stating all of this.
So, Skooby, why did a recently constituted company, with no stock of PPE (just 'contacts') end up netting £29m for Michelle Mone in preference to an actual supplier with actual stocks of pukka PPE who repeatedly made themselves known to the government? That in itself caused unnecessary delay. When the knock-off shite that Mone procured turned up some of it was already soiled by usage. Much of it was substandard. Why did this happen?
Try buying a ticket on any conventional international carrier, without a valid visa.
Seriously, do some people (who appear to be politically engaged) not know this?
I do know this. I was asked what the process is, and I replied. TJ is absolutely correct in that it's a complete stitch-up designed to be impossible to use, so that the Tories can appeal to their core supporters. I don't disagree with any of that - I'm just pointing out that from what I can see, the people smugglers themselves are crooks taking advantage of the vulnerable whilst not caring what happens to them; rather than providing an essential lifeline out of compassion.
There is SO much that could be done to make life better for people in need, but the Tory government of the last 14 years has not bothered to do any of it, being more concerned about votes. Fat lot of good it has done them too.
It'll be interesting to see if anyone tries to take credit for Assange's negotiated release given that Starmer said to the Swedes 'don't you dare' drop charges against him.
couple of weeks tops.
@tjagain a noble goal but IMO unachievable, it takes about that long to do a CTC and that's in the same country with functioning infrastructure.
If I was going to pull a figure out thin air (and I realise that's all it is) then 2-3 months seems more realistic though I'm not sure how deep checks go and it's all dependent on whether there's something/someone working with you at the other end.
In any case, I agree 2 years is orders of magnitude over what should happen, if someone really needed to take that long then a temporary asylum order should be a thing (allowing them to work and actually do something productive) pending full checks.
@spectabilis - tactical recommendation from Carol Vordermann's site - LibDem
https://Twitter.com/JohnJCrace/status/1805536697985192355
So Rishi had all his MPs out on the airwaves (well... all those who haven't already dissapeared) defending his decision not to suspend the candidates, right up until the point he suspended the candidates?
How very Johnson-esque.
Thats bound to enthuse all of them about defending any future decisions that may be open to complete reversal within seconds, with no consultation
Do candidates even have the whip?
Probably not technically speaking but for convenience its the best term to use since the key punishment available for the whips is to withdraw support at election time.
It says a lot about the tories that I am surprised they actually reacted fairly quickly to the gambling commission removing the excuse about the tories having to wait for the gambling commissions investigation before doing anything themselves.
The question is whether there are any other candidates who are under investigation but havent been named publicly.
The question is whether there are any other candidates who are under investigation but havent been named publicly.
There is so much chatter about a minister being implicated that I think we will find out at some point (after the GE?) that it's absolutely the case.
I mean looks at the ministers? I'll be shocked if it's only one that actually took a bet out!
I wouldn't be surprised if the delay before action was so that Sunak could find out if any 'big names' had a flutter as well. So probably no cabinet ministers. Unless the normal Tory due diligence strikes again.
