[Closed] U.S. Presidential Election 2020

Its worth remembering that, so far, more than 66m US voters have said that they want Trump (liar, racist, sexist, incompetent international embarrassment) to be their President.

That is simply nuts

What proportion of brits voted for Boris (liar, racist, sexist, incompetent international embarrassment)?

The pessimist in me really does see Trump winning this as much as I hate it, I just don't see another outcome

Trump is now set up to be “the real President” and a right royal pain in the arse of any future administration

This is so true. He didn't get the popular vote last time but obvs didnt care but if he gets the popular vote this year but loses hes gonna go kicking and screaming out of the white house. He has a platform now and press will stick a mic in his face because hes gonna say stupid stuff like lets drink bleach to cure covid.

Trump is now set up to be “the real President” and a right royal pain the arse of any future administration.

Doubt it..his time will be spent on the golf course, perhaps punctuated by the occasional ill thought out tweet but that's about it I reckon..

Hopefully before he dies he'll realise that his legacy is to be remembered as the worst president in US history. Although that's unlikely as self reflection clearly isnt a strong point of his, and probably even less so when he's gone senile and dribbling into his cornflakes..

For a man supposedly recovering from coronavirus his energy levels were amazing.

Massive injection of steroids will do that to you no?

@Drac think you'll find the Corbyn thread is over that way <---------- his threads never go that way ------------>

Kimbers wins. 

Nope, whoever used the phrase 'ranting shitgibbon' to describe Trump wins. Hands down.

Edited to include the 'ranting' bit.

I don’t think we’re in a position to be passing judgement on anyone

Absolutely. We are not better, and in many ways worse. I mean we don't have the extreme grinding poverty and hopelessness that exists in America, and yet we still voted for a snake oil salesman even though we're doing pretty well. It's all very well us looking down and sneering at America, but we're on exactly the same path and exhibit the exact same prejudices, we're just not as open about it.

Its clear from the present rambling of some Tory MP on Five Live, saying they have no preference as to who wins, that central office Dom has ordered them not to express an opinion

Have you seen Sanders speak and campaign? He was the perfect opponent against Trump, an aggressive, straight talking pit-bull of a campaigner. My point aboout Sanders has got nothing to do with the policies and is based purely on him having the presense and aggression to turn people’s heads away from Trump. We don’t know if he would have succeeded, but it’s almost certain that he’d have run a much better campaign than Biden.

Bernie would have lost before his first speech...

To implement any policies, good or bad, first a candidate has to get elected which sadly means a calculation had to be made (by the party) about whether to challenge the electorate's built in biases and bigotry, or pick a face that more of the voters won't object to before they've uttered a word....

Sanders didn't win the Dem's nomination because he was a "bad" debater or had "bad" policies, but because lots of Dems knew that the "Socialist" mud would be flung by Trump/Fox, would easily stick in the minds of floating voters and it would be a Trump landslide...

The reason Biden was put forward as the Dem's presidential candidate wasn't because He's the "Best candidate" but because he was the "Best" white, straight, male, centrist Democrat with a chance at winning this election... So far it seems that judgement was correct, He's still in with a chance.

Some argue being a Woman hurt Hillary with voters almost as much as her actual personality and/or policies, long before a single speech was made...

I'm not saying it's right, but that's how it currently works unfortunately...

A run off between two rich, old, white men is arguably "better" because they can only really be differentiated between on the basis of policy, personality and party...

So far it seems that judgement was correct

Err, have you been watching the same election?

How long before the US is voting on which You Tuber to have as president?

Bookies now making Biden favourite at just better than evens and Trump around 2/1.

I don’t think we’re in a position to be passing judgement on anyone

I don't think we are, or at least I'm not.  The point is that half of America thinks that Trump is the right person which means that Trumps America is the real America rather than some deluded imaginary version.  That requires a rethink of what we imagine America is

Same with the UK of course.

Highly likely that Trump is pumped up on steroids but 'Pumped up on steroids' is a fair description of American machismo generally. So it doesn't matter. It wouldn't matter if he was pumped up on crack.

Just saw Biden on TV, he sounds like he has early onset dementia and I say that as someone whose mother had Alzheimer's.

Regardless of the result, I am envious of the level of grassroots political activism and engagement in America. Something we can only dream of in Britain.

They still have a long way to go before they have the grassroots political activism of Germany or Russia in the early part of the last century.

An interesting diversion while we wait for people to count votes...

https://twitter.com/latifnasser/status/1323333293467525126

They still have a long way to go before they have the grassroots political activism of Germany or Russia in the early part of the last century.

Heh.

Not sure it's a long way to go though, it's all gone a bit "March on Rome".

Err, have you been watching the same election?

You do know that Biden has a reasonable chance of winning?

What proportion of brits voted for Boris (liar, racist, sexist, incompetent international embarrassment)?

25,351 in the 2019 general election, 160,000 Conservative members in the 2019 leadership election

are we waiting on absentee ballot counting in NC & Ga ?

Michigan trump lead is being slashed - was about 235K in lead, now down to 65K in the space of 30 mins - there's hope.. CNN seem to have a half sensible commentary going on..

are we waiting on absentee ballot counting in NC & Ga ?

I think so. The details will depend on the particular state, but some states allow ballots that are postmarked by E-day, but delivered late.

https://twitter.com/jefftimmer/status/1323950843721183236

I look back at how I perceived the USA to be when I was a kid in the 70s and it was all praries, progressive and spaceships. Now the reality is bigotry, low standards and blandness. How depressing.

I look back at how I perceived the USA to be when I was a kid in the 70s

They were the leaders of the free world.

Now they've been sold tyranny packaged as "freedom" by a crooked salesman.

So have we.

You do know that Biden has a reasonable chance of winning?

Of course I do. But lets not pretend this is a ringing endorsement of Biden and what he represents. Its nothing less than a disaster for the democrats. Even if they win the presidency they have failed to win the Senate and have lost people in the House. They're not going to be able to do anything, and in 4 years time the new republican candidate will sieze on that.

Err, have you been watching the same election?

Currently the Meeja is reporting Biden ahead (224/213 electoral college), it's provisional, nobody's won or lost yet...

have you been watching the same election?

Edit:

But lets not pretend this is a ringing endorsement of Biden and what he represents.

I don't think I was suggesting that at all.
Unfortunately the Dems have to pragmatically fight the battles in front of them, right now Biden is the 'lesser of two evils' even if you're a committed "leftist" and the only chance to unseat Trump...

Of course it's not a resounding victory for US democracy, Biden is the "least worst option" on offer today, unless you're advocating four more years of President Trump as being somehow preferable?...

Bernie would have been conceding before breakfast (IMO) had he been nominated...

Can I interest anyone in a fabulous monorail system?

We all perceive an image of the USA whilst ignoring the fly over States. I can't remember who said it, but they likened the US to a third world country wearing a Versace belt.
Which is about right.

white101 How long before the US is voting on which You Tuber to have as president?

Mr Beast would win that one 😂

I look back at how I perceived the USA to be when I was a kid in the 70s and it was all praries, progressive and spaceships.

You think the US in the 70s was progressive?

It is all good. Kanye 2024 to the rescue.
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2020/nov/04/kanye-west-announces-kanye-2024-as-he-fails-to-make-election-impact

He could run a raft of executive orders a la Trump

Dazh,

That's a pretty fair synopsis should Biden win.

I mean we don’t have the extreme grinding poverty and hopelessness that exists in America

As well as that, there's the precariousness of people who are in work; and the poor quality of life. I mean there are people employed in fairly well paid jobs in California (IT etc) who are living in cars.

Of course I do. But lets not pretend this is a ringing endorsement of Biden and what he represents. Its nothing less than a disaster for the democrats.

Given that Biden may well win, you have a curious definition of "disaster".

The fact that it's even close, with Trump's handling of the pandemic, is pretty concerning. And even if he wins he will probably mostly be a lame duck.

I'm struggling to see why people (in the media) are so optimistic about Biden when he's got to come from a long way behind in Pennsylvania. 64% of votes are in and he's 650 000 votes down. Even with more democtrats postal voting that's a big hole to fill. Without Pennsylvania he needs both Georgia and North Carolina and there are only 6% of votes still to be counted to make up a couple of percent, and that's assuming he gets Michigan where he's still behind but closer to a win.

A few well meant words about reducing reliance on gas look like deciding the result, in favour of Trump.

Hope I'm wrong. But I hoped I'd be wrong about Brexit too. 🙁

Even if they win the presidency they have failed to win the Senate and have lost people in the House.

I hadn't realised it was over.

I’m struggling to see why people (in the media) are so optimistic about Biden when he’s got to come from a long way behind in Pennsylvania. 64% of votes are in and he’s 650 000 votes down. Even with more democtrats postal voting that’s a big hole to fill. Without Pennsylvania he needs both Georgia and North Carolina and there are only 6% of votes still to be counted to make up a couple of percent, and that’s assuming he gets Michigan where he’s still behind but closer to a win.

I don't think that's right. Biden is likely to win Arizona (AP has called it already), probably Nevada and Wisconsin. That takes him to 254. Michigan would make 270, so Biden could theoretically lose all of the other states you mention and still win.

Will we end up with Bush style recounts?

The 2nd district congress of Nebraska single electoral college vote going to Biden is actually huge! Without it we were heading for a potential 269-269 tie. Now that scenario falls to Biden.

down to 27k in Michigan

258 with Maine? But yeah Michigan looks like the state closest to flipping with a narrow Trump margin at present, and only 15% of votes left to count...

It is amusing watching the Wisconsin results - many of these places I know because I have family in or near them!

Watching CNN live. Wisconsin - Biden is ahead now and small margin widening. Michigan Biden is getting closer and closer.

It's because mail in votes are predominantly from Dem counties with big mail or tend to be urban/dem.

This is why Trump wants the count stopped. Except in Arizona where it is edging his way

this is unbelievably tense!

You're right, I'd missed those two in my adding up. You've chered me up. 🙂

Edit: with Nevada, Winsconsin and Michegan it's 270, right? Fingers crossed.

Except in Arizona where it is edging his way

It is?!? *******

Wisconsin is really close, just 0.22% with Biden currently ahead. 381k votes yet to be counted. That's two counties: Kenosha and Brown - Kenosha is traditionally Democrat but went with Trump in 2016, Brown is traditionally Republican.

Will we end up with Bush style recounts?

Looking at how close some are definitely.
Or at least court cases about them.

https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1323964082861580288

It is?!? *******

Dont believe so but it was one where he did want the counting to continue.
Basically where he is ahead STOP NOW.
Where he is behind then keep counting.

Of course I do. But lets not pretend this is a ringing endorsement of Biden and what he represents. Its nothing less than a disaster for the democrats.

Given that Biden may well win, you have a curious definition of “disaster”.

I mostly agree with "disaster".

Biden was chosen entirely on his appeal to Trumps base/swing voters. Old, White, Male etc.

They went into this against a President who has the lowest approval rating in decades, lower than Nixon, lower then Truman.

Add into the mix a Pandemic that's killed 260k Americans, is the headline story in the news for 10 months leading up to the Election when nearly 60% of Americans and wiped out his main policy of job creation.

Now, it might turn out that Biden has actually done better than it seems at the moment, by the time they count the absentee ballots, the post votes and all the early votes he might have actually taken some more swing states and even a Republican heartland, but at the moment he hasn't.

If the best they can come out of this situation is a lame duck, 1 term President, they will have only bought 4 years before the next Trump comes, he might even try to run again.

Everytime I think of rural Wisconsin I think of the guy from Making a murderer, not the sharpest pencil. Which is a concern

But then think of urbane, urban, LBGT sympathetic, Milwaukee resident - Jeffrey Dahmer and feel more confident. I bet he voted Democrat

If a South American country behaved like the US, the CIA would be looking to destabilise it and move in their own puppet leader

molgrips

It is amusing watching the Wisconsin results – many of these places I know because I have family in or near them!

Molly's cousins Dwayne, Chuck and Cletus on their way to vote earlier

If a South American country behaved like the US, the CIA would be looking to destabilise it and move in their own puppet leader

Isn't that Russia's job nowadays?

Why is the FT reporting Biden is leading 238 v 213 whereas the BBC reporting 224 v 213?

It's been like that for 2hrs

It's because Arizona (and possibly others) isn't formally declared but has been called by some of the press. So it depends who you're listening to.

Do we have any guesses as to when this will start to look "done"?

The suspense of this is killing me...

The guardian have the same, as said above its because the associated press called arizona while others haven't.

Fadda - depends on whether we need Pennsylvania to finish

It’s been like that for 2hrs

Think this is explained by the Guardian.
They have the 238 and have a comment saying its because Associated Press (which they use) have called Arizona for Biden but other outlets havent yet.

he might even try to run again

Is it possible that the only thing that will stop Trump running, and winning, in 2024 is the chance that he may be in prison by then?

FT has probably called Arizona for Biden and Maine 3:1 for Biden

Homo Sapiens as we know them are basically facing an E.L.E    Just like the Neanderthal 40k years ago we are being swept off the plains by the new species of Homo Sociapath.

I'm not joking either - though obviously Neanderthals and Homo Sapien were different species there is evidence of Iinterbreeding. Either way the mnore peaceful Neanderthals were driven to extinction by the violent, intelligent and selfish Homo Sapien. Now our race has evolved (if you can call it that) again and the top dog is clear to see.

For all us Neanderthals, well our days are numbered.

Biden 4/11 now, Trump 3/1 and drifting. Come on!

It's nuts that he already has over 2m more votes and likely that lead will increase, but victory is far from certain :-/

Is it possible that the only thing that will stop Trump running, and winning, in 2024 is the chance that he may be in prison by then?

Surely his diet of Big Macs washed down with cans of coke means his Elvis moment awaits before too long?

As long as China Joe or Sleepy Biden does not win the world will be at peace.

From Fivethirtyeight.com:

Looks like votes from Brown and Kenosha counties have been added to the tallies in Wisconsin, and Biden’s lead over Trump is now at 0.6 percentage points, based on about a 21,000-vote margin, according to ABC News. Overall, 92 percent of the expected vote is in, but those were the two major places where we were still waiting on a big chunk of votes to be reported.

Is it possible that the only thing that will stop Trump running, and winning, in 2024 is the chance that he may be in prison by then?

I suppose one small crumb of comfort is that if he does win this time, he can't run again.

he can’t shouldn't run again

The courts could be busy.

By my maths, if each of them wins each state in which they're currently ahead you end up with Biden on 255 and Trump on 283. So a Biden win relies on the different leanings of people who vote by post or voted in places that are slow at counting.

I agree with dazh that this isn't the thumping defeat that it should have been. That's probably down to a combination of things, not least the entrenched tribalism of US politics where people are blindly republican or democrat (not that we're much better).

My worry is that we see a scraped win for Biden and the Democrat party breathes a sigh of relief, settles in for 4 years in charge and never wonders why, after 8 years of a Democrat president, half of the country was willing to vote to Trump. Because after this term we'll be back in that situation and a lacklustre Dem candidate will lose to another Republican lunatic.

Is it possible that the only thing that will stop Trump running, and winning, in 2024 is the chance that he may be in prison by then?

I was accused of being a terrible person when I wished him ill as he flirted with Caroni a few weeks back - bet you all wish I'd had my way now don't you!

In 4 years mother nature might well have had it's wicked way with him. And Biden too come to that.

In 4 years mother nature might well have had it’s wicked way with him us.

The difference between the two old men on climate change makes this election one that could permanently, irretrievably, make things worse for all of us.

Philly and Pittsburgh could swing Pennsylvania?
Yes Biden is currently ~600K votes down, but they've still got over 1 million left to count apparently (~25%) That's would be 20 College votes...

The reason Trump wants counting stopped, is because it's assumed that Urban Dems disproportionately voted by post and in a lot of places these are being counted last...

Biden was chosen entirely on his appeal to Trumps base/swing voters. Old, White, Male etc.

And meanwhile lost to every other demographic.

https://twitter.com/MattBruenig/status/1323825846365396992?s=20

Just put 60 quid on trump at 3-1. If I win I'll spend my cash on beers to cheer me up

"If a South American country behaved like the US, the CIA would be looking to destabilise it and move in their own puppet leader"

Sure - but has that not already happened? If you buy that the Russians disrupted the last election to install Trump and destabilise an enemy power.