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Reading that CNN article about the pentagon, I'd go with him planning to do a too hasty withdrawal from Afghanistan. He'll be desperately trying to think of a way to define his presidency in a positive light rather than the "loser one-term president" or "covid president". Getting out of Afghanistan would appeal to his base ("bringing troops home from other's fight") and he won't be around to see the long term consequences.
That’s a rather crap amendment. The only people that can have him removed are those with an interest in not doing so. America…..****! Yeah!
Congress can impeach him, but it's a bit difficult to get a conviction when the Senate is run by his buddies.
Looks like the next part of the parallel plan, a march to Washington by 'trump supporters', is being organised. Those supporting Biden on the streets and outside the White House need to be very careful not to get sucked into the kind of violence that Trump needs to justify deploying troops to 'maintain law and order' and invoking the Insurrection Act.
Trump has been removing military leaders, perhaps those who would oppose such moves on a flimsy pretext.
These are dangerous times for the US. No-one in the administration thinks that the fraud challenges are going anywhere, they are just to provide a narrative either to soothe Trump's ego, or, more worryingly, whip up violence. Which, in turn, would provide justification for something a little more authoritarian.
Time for a grassy knoll?
Time for a grassy knoll?
Which, in turn, would provide justification for something a little more authoritarian.
Trump is a massive goochpimple and objectively the #WorstPresidentEver but it's important to remember he's as much a symptom as a cause of all of this. Cut off one head and four more heads on tentacles will grow back, emboldened.
The most alarming thing is how few Republican Senators have spoken out on this. They're the real enemy right now. All that is required for evil to prosper is for good* people to do nothing.
* I'm being very generous.
I have a colleague who talks about how Iran was a beautiful, relatively liberal country until it’s ‘Revolution’ in 1979.
From what I understand, the Shah was trying to Westernize, but he was no liberal. He was hated by a large segment of the population and his police were utterly brutal. Granted, the current regime is almost certainly worse, but that's a pretty low bar to clear.
Only 4 Republicans saying it's over is pretty alarming, definitely the beginnings of a coup taking place, how any American can think Trump's doing this for the American people is beyond me.
Mind you, a civil war and mass riots would be a fitting end the nightmare that is 2020, I just hope someone in the gop has the sense to stop him going for nuclear codes when he totally loses the plot.🙂
Trump's just digging a bigger hole for himself and an even longer jail term.
Only 4 Republicans saying it’s over is pretty alarming, definitely the beginnings of a coup taking place, how any American can think Trump’s doing this for the American people is beyond me.
Trump is holing GOP hostage
If they don't support his bonkers position, then he tells his base not to vote for them in the Georgia run off votes & they lose control of the Senate
I have a colleague who talks about how Iran was a beautiful, relatively liberal country until it’s ‘Revolution’ in 1979. I’m younger so until that conversation my prior exposure to Iran (from our media etc) was of a backward country run by religious zealots. It baffled me that such a fall from apparently enlightened and prosperous society could happen so recently.
And yet, here we are with that famous bastion of democracy, the USA, going down a remarkably similar path. It’s like the ultimate cringe to watch it. Fascinating, yes. But terrifying since we’ll probably be next.
Absolutely, most of the Middle East was like that in the 1970s. In the 70s the Young Women in the Cities at least in Afghanistan, wore mini skirts, went to University, enjoyed the Cinema. Given how lets say 'Conservative' attitudes were in the UK at the same time, we weren't a million miles apart. Within a few years they'd gone from a modestly progressive, developed Country to a totalitarian 3rd world one.
There hope though, whether we like it or not, in many ways where the US leads, we follow. He's making a lot of noise at the moment, but Trump's Goose is cooked, it was staggering the way even right wing media and other Republicans turned on him the moment he was no longer a threat so them. The only allies he has left are those so tainted by his legacy they know there's no way they can distance themselves from him.
You don't need to be a Rocket Surgeon to work out Trump is trying to pack the Pentagon with his Goons and no doubt will pressure them into saying the election was rigged. He grasping at straws, what do he think we happen? They'll over-turn the result? Demand a second election? He'd lose than in a landslide, because most Republican voters are just that, republican voters, they're not part of the Trump faithful their inherent patriotism makes him a hate figure.
Pence and the Cabinet may well remove him, he's starting to behave like a Despot, they won't stand for it.
I'm not sure that Iran was a completely lovely place under the Shah. Maybe a little more liberal, but he did have a secret police setup that was pretty horrific and the revolution was pretty brutal.
Afghanistan was pretty similar apparently, quite liberal, etc before the revolution and cycle of invasion and warlords began and just destroyed it. You could almost say the same thing about most places that were on the receiving end of revolution/invasion by the US, Russia and the UK.
If they don’t support his bonkers position, then he tells his base not to vote for them in the Georgia run off votes & they lose control of the Senate
See, this I don't really understand. We've seen that the vote for President was largely a protest vote against Trump - I guess fewer people voted for Biden than against Trump and clearly the fact it was close and the Reps picked up seats in the House/Senate demonstrates that the democrats are not necessarily politically popular right now. Plus, in Georgia specifically, the anti-Trump vote was supposedly stronger because of Trump's treatment of John Lewis.
With Trump on his way out, surely Georgia can be won by the reps by convincing the moderate vote back to the Republican Party?
Trump has to stand firm to raise funds to pay off his campaign debts and to keep his base for the run off elections.
That is why most Republicans are staying quiet. After those elections, he is no use to the party. There aren't many, AIUI, who are going over the top banging the drum in support of what he's doing.
Yes, there is a risk of more unrest if nutters from both sides take to the streets, but I'm *hoping* that a full civil war and the Insurrection Act are just disaster fantasists having a moment.
His support amongst the military seems to be not as strong as people imagined, from reports of voting, the top brass have been clear their duty is to America and not the President. If Trump tries to force it, I suspect enough of the military, at all levels, will cause it to backfire.
With Trump on his way out, surely Georgia can be won by the reps by convincing the moderate vote back to the Republican Party?
I think the GOP are counting on a turnout from Trump's fervent supporters to see them home. If they have been deflated by his defeat and don't vote, the Dems have a fair chance of taking both. So the 'stolen election' idea has to be kept in play until January to energise them.
Conversely, the longer it takes for Trump to concede, the easier it will be for Stacey Abrams to turn out Democrat voters. But the GOP has little choice now, they are hostages to the MAGA idiots. It is why scum like Don Jr and Guilfoyle are positioning themselves as the only ones who can deliver those voters in future. It's like a Tea Party voting bloc on steroids, and the GOP's dependence on it will send them even further right.
His support amongst the military seems to be not as strong as people imagined
I suspect you are right, but Trump is grabbing at whatever straws are available to stave off the flood of indictments and creditors coming his way in January. Even attempting this strategy further radicalises a portion of his supporters and stores up problems for years to come.
We’ve seen that the vote for President was largely a protest vote against Trump
I don't think this is quite right. Biden got a bit more than 50% of the vote. Maybe 5% was disaffected voters who were voting against Trump, but 45% of it was Democratic voters who would have voted for pretty much anyone the Democratic Party nominated. Trump did seem to turbocharge turnout though, but that went both ways. So the protest vote probably made a big enough impact to make Biden the winner, but it was still a small proportion of his voters.
Really hoping it all comes to nothing but have to say I'm alarmed by the power grab in the Pentagon. To that I end I also wonder if bringing the troops home might be another part of garnering support amongst the boots on the ground in the military. What will be left of the existing top brass might not support either pulling out of Afghanistan or using the military under the insurrection act but if you're looking at a full blown coup with a bunch of yes men in place that might not matter? Trump is such a pyscho narcissist I wouldn't put anything past him and given the support he is getting from other senior Republicans at the moment it is getting to be a tinderbox situation. Remember this is the man who has made comments about executing those he views as enemies for treason, I bet he would love to head up a dictatorship!
Friends of mine in California who have been vocal critics of Trump are thinking of moving the family to the UK for a year, fortunately he has dual citizenship.
Is it even possible to get the troops out of Afghanistan in a few weeks?
His support amongst the military seems to be not as strong as people imagined, from reports of voting, the top brass have been clear their duty is to America and not the President. If Trump tries to force it, I suspect enough of the military, at all levels, will cause it to backfire.
Trump won't be the first Politician to misjudge the support of 'Heartland' voters. The idea is the everyone in the Military is a Conservative, Gun Lovin' Commie hating 'Badass' who wouldn't be seen dead voting for a Democrat, but Trump hasn't been able to hide his disdain for them. I think fundamentally he think the US wastes too much money being 'World Police' and members of the military would be of more use to him if they had normal jobs at home and spent all their money, and more on consumer goods.
Not to mention, whilst a lot of the Military come from Red states, the State that produces the most Military Personnel, is actually California.
Interesting that Trump has been setting some of this up since before the election. Here is a story about an executive order passed in October that allows him to purge civil servants that he believes are disloyal.
Ronald Sanders, the Trump-appointed head of an advisory council on the civil service, quit in protest, writing in his resignation letter that the order “is nothing more than a smoke screen for what is clearly an attempt to require the political loyalty of those who advise the President, or failing that, to enable their removal with little if any due process.”
He added: “I simply cannot be part of an Administration that seeks…to replace apolitical expertise with political obeisance. Career Federal employees are legally and duty-bound to be nonpartisan; they take an oath to preserve and protect our Constitution and the rule of law…not to be loyal to a particular President or Administration.”
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/10/donald-trump-civil-servants-schedule-f
This is getting more entertaining by the day - CNN seems genuinely concerned about a coup now.
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/11/11/politics/donald-trump-joe-biden-transition/index.html
"Alarm grows over Trump's 'dictator moves' as he denies election defeat<"
Where's 5thElement? Still think lefties are the problem?
thols2
Free MemberIt is, but I think the longer term effect is that military and intelligence officers will switch from generally supporting Republicans to voting Democrat. There are tens of thousands of them trying to do their jobs in a non-partisan way and seeing their leaders publicly criticized and sacked for saying what everyone knows is true.
Yep, that seems the actual likely outcome.
Similar to this thing about firing people in the administration who're "caught" looking for other work. Just pure pettiness, and will only harm the administration and the country (and some poor buggers who get caught by it- who're getting little sympathy but being part of the trump administration doesn't make you a baddy, for many of them it's just the junior/entry level political work that's available). Would you work for this lot under any capacity in future?
So it's harmful today in terms of being able to govern but hopefully it's harmful when they're putting together their next campaign and everyone that's not a zealot just says lol nope.
More damning evidence of electoral fraud MAGA stupidity.
https://twitter.com/bradheath/status/1326396394891079681
The Trumpets set up multiple #conservativehypehouse #republicanhypehouse style feeds on TikTok to counter all the anti-Trump stuff, so I suspect it was considered prudent to let it carry on through the election.
Re Iran, you do realise that the coup in the 50s that overthrew an elected government and strengthened the Shah’s position was orchestrated by the US (after the UK prompted). The great democratic nation loves the ideal as long as the “right” people are elected that won’t affect their interests.
During the Shah’s period, it may have been liberal for some. If wanted, say, free elections not so. Plenty disappeared akin to the South American juntas suppression of opposition.
During the Shah’s period, it may have been liberal for some. If wanted, say, free elections not so.
Excellent point about Iran. Sadly for wider regional stability, the Shah's US backed regime forced opposition to focus around Islamic extremism, as more moderate opposition was crushed more effectively.
The great democratic nation loves the ideal as long as the “right” people are elected that won’t affect their interests.
I think, "He's an asshole, but he's our asshole," was the functional policy.
https://thetriad.thebulwark.com/p/a-crisis-is-unfolding-right-now
Worryingly, according to that article, 70% of Republicans now believe that the election was fraudulent.
If this election was in some African state and the incumbent [s]dictator[/s] president was doing what Trump was, we'd be sending in a NATO peacekeeping force about now.
If it was the Middle East, we'd probably be looking at a full-blown invasion.
Love the response from Lt Gov of Pennsylvania.
This is getting more entertaining by the day – CNN seems genuinely concerned about a coup now.
It's an interesting point, if Putin, Kim Jong-Un or Mugabe suddenly removed Military leaders from power without warning I don't think anyone would be shocked, pretty much SOP for Dictators and Despots. Kim Jong does that sort of shit every other month, the difference being they generally end up dead.
If a newly democratically elected Leader did it, it would raise a few eyebrows, more than a few, but the would would consider the background. For example, when Mandela came to power in South Africa, if the Police and Military was still ran by the same people who ran the Death Squads, you'd expect them gone double-quick. Equally if a new leader had been less then Democratically brought to power a lot of questions would be asked and yes indeed, if they were foolish enough to do it in the Country with Oil or was Geographically convenient to the West they'd expect sanctions and possibly Military Intervention to follow.
I don't think anyone is thinking Trump is going to overtly seize power using the US only Military against their own people, but you can't ignore that fact that in recent months he's sought to install the 'right' people at the top of the Law and now Military in the US.
He knows that whatever he has the power to do now, Biden will have the power to reverse just as easily in January, so is it safe to conclude that whatever he's doing now, he's doing so to use now?
Either a career sweetener for newly promoted potential future friendlies.
Or they're installed to be leaned on right now.
Might get in Biden's way for a few minutes when he takes office, so possibly a move purely to piss on Biden's shoes.
or he is so deluded / badly advised that he thinks he can turn the election result in his favour and so these are preparation for his second term.
He knows that whatever he has the power to do now, Biden will have the power to reverse just as easily in January, so is it safe to conclude that whatever he’s doing now, he’s doing so to use now?
There is an argument that some of them will actually be relatively difficult to remove, but I fully expect Trump to try and use them to hold on to power soon.
Honestly, if he did the unthinkable - what SOP does the US have to stop a coup by militias and certain sections of the military and police, legally and without bloodshed? I believe part of the worry is that they have never had to cope with this situation so people are unsure what to do.
Trumps wife is going to divorce him, he's a raging narcissist who's now so ugly and old people find him offensive to look at, he's old enough that being sent to a supermax has probably lost it's seriousness, he will have multiple charges levelled against him when out of office, he's broke....what's he got to lose by going full dictator?
I actually think he's mad enough to engage in a nuclear exchange with North Korea to stay in power.
from the washington post....
[E]ven some of the president’s most publicly pugilistic aides, including White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows, Republican National Committee Chairwoman Ronna McDaniel and informal adviser Corey Lewandowski, have said privately that they are concerned about the lawsuits’ chances for success unless more evidence surfaces, according to people familiar with their views.
Trump met with advisers again Tuesday afternoon to discuss whether there is a path forward, said a person with knowledge of the discussions, who, like others interviewed for this report, spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe internal discussions. The person said Trump plans to keep fighting but understands it is going to be difficult. ‘He is all over the place. It changes from hour to hour,’ the person said. ...
Isn't the right to bear arms amendment somewhat so that the population cannot easily be controlled by a malignant state?
And we've been against gun control all this time
If this election was in some African state and the incumbent dictator president was doing what Trump was, we’d be sending in a NATO peacekeeping force about now.
If it was the Middle East, we’d probably be looking at a full-blown invasion.
No we wouldn't. We'd tut a bit louder.
But as I understand it, the US plan to deal with a crazed government taking control of everything is all those militias armed to the teeth under the second amendment. So it will be fine just so long as they don't have to wear masks and can have a hair appointment for a week in Thursday.
He is all over the place. It changes from hour to hour,’ the person said. …
Somehow I get the feeling that right now - there is a conversation going on like this somewhere within the US DoD
edit - deleted - poor arguement.
We certtainly have double standards dealing with this sort of thing but usually would be siding with the coup
Sorry if already posted...
We certtainly have double standards dealing with this sort of thing but usually would be siding with the coup
You mean we'd have planned and funded the coup. Authoritarian ruler of an oil producing country who's not keen on the rule of law or any kind of regulation? Sounds right up our street.
So it turns out there is crazy, then batshit crazy & now we have a slightly higher level of crazy. Jon Voight...
https://twitter.com/jonvoight/status/1326323889417322497
Jon Voight, actor, electoral process expert and legal specialist there.
They've fired rockets at caves for making videos like that.