[Closed] Troll GCHQ + NSA... automatically!

I read somewhere that the NSA trawls so much data that they can't actually analyse it properly, and the same goes for other spook departments in the US, like the Army, Navy, etc. because none of them will share data with anyone else.
Anything that adds to the workload is fine by me. 😈

theyll figure out how to analyse it one day

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn24812-entangled-spies-why-the-nsa-wants-a-quantum-computer.html#.Us6L8fRdVI4

probably become self aware and decide all humans are a threat

Ever watched WarGames... 😉

I think generally they don't watch *everyone*. That would be a very pointless use of resources.

I expect that once you get yourself on the list though, you'll get watched a lot although I imagine a lot of uninteresting people get watched as collateral.

Did that router take a long time to come from Amazon? Probably stopped off at an undisclosed location for some functionality tweaks.
[url] http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/catalog-reveals-nsa-has-back-doors-for-numerous-devices-a-940994.html [/url]

I wish you were right Samuri... all evidence suggests that they do indeed watch *everyone*

Whatsmore, [url= http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/10/nsa-spying-did-not-result-in-one-stopped-terrorist-plot-and-the-government-actually-did-spy-on-the-bad-guys-before-911.html?nb48 ]they've haven't stopped even one 'terrorist' plot, EVER[/url]

(including 9/11, despite monitoring the phones of the hijackers)

I think generally they don't watch *everyone*. That would be a very pointless use of resources.

I expect that once you get yourself on the list though, you'll get watched a lot although I imagine a lot of uninteresting people get watched as collateral.

This stuff uses cutting edge technology. Computing power is ever increasing, power required to perform computing tasks is ever decreasing and the talent necessary to develop algorithms is getting cheaper. It may not be economoical to "watch" everyone now, but it will be soon.
That's the thing about this - all the data is already being stored. The only thing stopping these agencies from linking together any correspondance, communication or action about you which has passed through any fibre optic cable crossing an ocean (if they can't do it already) is that the algorithms can't run fast enough yet. They will soon be very fast and very efficient.

They will soon be very fast and very efficient.

But the amount of data we send is also rising very fast.

Unclear who will win.

NB Now that all the big cloud owners are, or are about to, encrypting everything on their interconnects, the problem for the NSA has just grown massively as they need to de-crypt everything first.

this thread needs lots of these:

[img] [/img]

Unless the NSA just pay huge wodges of cash to the companies that provide the cryptography to ensure they have suitable back doors.

But that'd never happen right?

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/12/21/nsa_paid_rsa_10_million/

There's already plenty of evidence to suggest that they can watch everyone but that's different to actually doing it. As I say, collateral traffic will be passed through the same monitoring point, but the filters will be applied to more specific data sets.

I'm liking the discovery that someone managed to alter some of the internet routing table via BGP hijacking to divert a significant proportion of traffic through an undisclosed monitor point without anyone noticing. It's around here somewhere, hang on....

[url] http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/12/bgp-hijacking-belarus-iceland/ [/url]

10 million would be nothing to RSA, certainly not enough to risk their security reputation on. You know, unlike their massively public breach.

Either RSA are being very friendly to the NSA or there's some leverage we're not seeing.

But the amount of data we send is also rising very fast.

Unclear who will win.

Aye, I was pondering this before I posted, ended up day dreaming about the amount of data we could actually ever generate which led onto Matrixesque day dreams and thoughts on simulating simulated systems via systems which are themselves included in the simulation.
But that's hatstand land.

There's already plenty of evidence to suggest that they can watch everyone but that's different to actually doing it. As I say, collateral traffic will be passed through the same monitoring point, but [b]the filters will be applied to more specific data sets[/b].

Who says? 😉
If my son choses to become an MP to rally against this sort of thing, they'll have an awful lot of information on him which would be distasteful to the public if they were made aware of it...

I like the idea of the NSA's servers melting under the overload. Let's do it!

Unless the NSA just pay huge wodges of cash to the companies that provide the cryptography to ensure they have suitable back doors.

Any Cisco box sold outside the US will be seriously weakened / have a back door, but from what I've read, Google, MS and Yahoo and implementing their own encryption inc one time keys to make it virtually impossible to eavesdrop without the keys.

I'm sure the NSA will have a backdoor somewhere, the NSA/GCHQ have nearly 60 years practice in doing this kind of thing. They were doing it before the internet was invented.

Whatsmore, they've haven't stopped even one 'terrorist' plot, EVER

Not really a surprise as (a) that's not their main reason for existence, terrorism is just an excuse to maintain funding levels (b) they actually have a poor history of predicting much.

This book is great if you want more details on the the GCHQ history

[url= http://www.amazon.co.uk/GCHQ-Richard-Aldrich/dp/0007312660 ]GCHQ History[/url]

jivehoneyjive - Member
I wish you were right Samuri... all evidence suggests that they do indeed watch *everyone*

Yes just like when I stand on top of a tall building I can watch 1000's of people at once. Yes I have no idea what any of them is doing but I am watching them.

Data capture is one thing, analysis is completely different, something I tell most of my clients most of the time. You can capture the data but what will you do with it and can you actually analyse it or just bulk it up to generalisations?
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/everyone-totally-fine-with-porn-sites-storing-user-data-2014010982421

I like the idea of [s]the NSA's servers melting under the overload.[/s] spending ten hours going through security at the airport. Let's do it!

[img] [/img]

The NSA certainly have the ability to record pretty much everything. I read they are building out their storage capacity towards a [i]yottabyte[/i] of data.

Gathering and storing the information isn't really a huge issue for them.

Mining this amount of data is far from trivial though. That's where the real computing power comes in. There is definitely a limit to how much data you can process and turn into useful information.

So yes I believe they routinely monitor and record everything (or a great deal) but only a tiny proportion of it is mined or monitored.

PS:

Semtex, Uranium, Enrichment, Iran, North Korea, Jihad

There is definitely a limit to how much data you can process and turn into useful information.

Yes, and that limit increases with technological development. It wouldn't surprise me if the amount of data they can mine today is equivalent to the entire internet traffic on this day in 1998. If data generation and data processing capabilities increase in tandem, they'll always be able to pull stuff up from the past, but 'real-time' will always be impossible.

Personally, I'm betting data processing will overtake generation because humans sleep.

you only have to mention stuff on facebook and the anti-terror police will come knocking

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/boy-12-hauled-out-class-268999

you only have to mention stuff on facebook and the anti-terror police will come knocking

Only if they think they can scare you...

Humans may sleep but the artificial life that we can create don't. Imagine active avitatrs reproducing at an exponential rate, all generating data...

scuzz - Member
Yes, and that limit increases with technological development. It wouldn't surprise me if the amount of data they can mine today is equivalent to the entire internet traffic on this day in 1998. If data generation and data processing capabilities increase in tandem, they'll always be able to pull stuff up from the past, but 'real-time' will always be impossible.

Personally, I'm betting data processing will overtake generation because humans sleep.

PRISM allows for real-time monitoring, it says so in one of the leaked slides.

PRISM allows for real-time monitoring, it says so in one of the leaked slides.

Aye, but that's for the 117,765 (April 2013) individual targets, upon supported networks for specific protocols, not the entire internet.