MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
If there is other luggage space available then the buggy should be moved to it.
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TJ, it has absolutely nothing to do with my being a parent, it comes down to consideration for others with a need to use the space greater than my own.
A child in a pram is not luggage. A child in a pram needs looking after by its parent.
Given this entirely rhetorical situation, what would you have the parent do? Struggle to get the (most likely sleeping as it is a young baby) out of the pram, fold it up(assuming it is foldable) and try to find space to stow it whilst still carrying the baby on what might be, by now, a moving train?
And what if the parent of the child has taken that space as it is the last available space on the train? Would you expect them to get off so you could exercise your right to use the space set to one side for bicycles?
Evidently some still put themselves first.
Indeed, such as the ones happy to take up space reserved for someone else, ie clearly marked as a [b]bike[/b] storage area. The same kind of selfishness that thinks it's ok to open a car door into heavy traffic so they can dick about with a child seat because they have a baby on board sticker in the rear window, or take a small child to the cinema and subject the whole cinema to an hour and a half of brat sounds because they were too lazy/stupid to organise a babysitter, or get upset when you blow your horn because the lights have changed to green but they never noticed because they were occupied with the little pukebag in the back seat.
it has absolutely nothing to do with my being a parent,
and that is guff of TJ'esque proportions. All you are saying is your brand of selfishness is ok because it involves a child.
No, I am saying that I would behave in a courtious manner to other travellers whether I was a parent or not. I can say with certainty that I would never have told someone with a baby in a pram to move from a space just so I could use it - either as a spotty 20yr old or as a more mature parent as I am now.
I was simply brought up in that manner.
A compromise?
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This rant
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Urgh 57's. GWT's are prob the most unreliable ones out there too. Yuk.
Back to the OP. A busy train on a line with trains every 15 minutes. The OP has several choices;
Suck it up, get on the train and complete his journey but being quite within his rights to have a little moan about it.
Shrug his shoulders and catch the next train in 15
Get on board, state his rights as a bike is as important as a baby, get the women to move, and with absolutely no experience of kids or buggies perhaps make unhelpful comments. Perhaps even help her move, where to on a packed train we don't know exactly.
So on a packed train the OP took option 1.
I do find it breathtaking the anti bike rhetoric on here. Not suprising any more but somewhat saddening.
PMSL
Not anti bike just anti [img] 
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are you
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or
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I'd never assume I could get a full-size bike into a crowded train - that's what folding bikes were invented for. Equally, I don't use a pushchair for my offspring - she goes in a sling and sits in a seat like a normal person.
So you're all wrong 🙂
Well traveling by train this weekend will never be the same again.
Equally, I don't use a pushchair for my offspring - she goes in a sling and sits in a seat like a normal person.
Agreed - I wouldn't have dreamt of taking my kids on a train as I couldn't imagine the hassle it would bring but we don't know the circumstances - she might have been travelling in an emergency and it was her only option to get to her destination.
As for the non folding pram - I actually saw someone get told by the gurard on a train she should have booked it on and that she was charged a ticket for it.
Did you step in and correct him/her, based on your knowledge of the ScotRail rules (which you linked to above)?
and that is guff of TJ'esque proportions. All you are saying is your brand of selfishness is ok because it involves a child.
Is it also "Guff of TJ'esque proportions" that I agree with him, even though I have no kids 🙄
Or does mine count as a valid opinion.
What's the difference between leaving a pram in a bike space and oooo, I don't know....red light jumping?Plenty, if you are a total hypocrite.
Can't help noticing how our resident stickler for the rules ignored this one...
Basic fact is that our trains are not geared up for mass movement of passengers with varying requirements. Ideally there would be adequate storage for bikes, prams, wheelchairs, daleks, whatever. However that is not the case. Trains, particularly at peak times, are woefully inadequate so it looks like it's "live and let live folks".
So MF - you think a parent have priority over the bike space on a train to a bike rider? You think if someone has put their baby buggy in the bike space I should not be able to get on the train? And you accuse me of being selfish - that really is breathtaking
konabunny - Member"As for the non folding pram - I actually saw someone get told by the gurard on a train she should have booked it on and that she was charged a ticket for it."
Did you step in and correct him/her, based on your knowledge of the ScotRail rules (which you linked to above)?
No 'cos it is correct - based on the scotrail rules
So MF - you think a parent have priority over the bike space on a train to a bike rider? You think if someone has put their baby buggy in the bike space I should not be able to get on the train? And you accuse me of being selfish - that really is breathtaking
I think all this shows is that not all rules are either sensible or good.
It also shows that those who follow them to the letter, or use them to win an argument, are missing something.
mastiles_fanylionAgreed - I wouldn't have dreamt of taking my kids on a train as I couldn't imagine the hassle it would bring
so actually you have no idea at all what you are talking about? too posh for trains?
Suprising. People take kids on trains all the time with no great hassle. Its just that for trains to work everyone needs to be co operative and follow the rules.
I agree with TJ.
Its just that for trains to work everyone needs to be co operative [s]and follow the rules[/s].
Does that work better?
I do find it breathtaking the anti bike rhetoric on here.
Some people are arguing that the needs of a parent and baby should take precedence over the needs of a cyclist. Could you explain how that is "anti bike"?
My station this morning, I think he's got a point...
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ransos - MemberI do find it breathtaking the anti bike rhetoric on here.
Some people are arguing that the needs of a parent and baby should take precedence over the needs of a cyclist. Could you explain how that is "anti bike"?
Because the needs of the parent and baby can be met without inconveniencing the cyclist. there are plenty of places to put the baby buggy. there is no other place to put the bike. This space is specific for bikes and usually has a sign telling people not to put anything else there. But people are arguing that even so a a baby buggy in this space take priority over a bike and the cyclist should miss their train.
Because the needs of the parent and baby can be met without inconveniencing the cyclist.
In the examples given (mother on her own, young baby)it's not really possible to fold up and stow the buggy, unless someone else offers to help.
TJ - you are Sheldon Cooper and I claim my £5.
knock knock knock - it's a bike space
knock knock knock - it's a bike space
knock knock knock - it's a bike space
🙄
It's just that for [s]trains[/s] traffic light junctions to work everyone needs to be cooperative and follow the rules.
so actually you have no idea at all what you are talking about? too posh for trains?
Are we in school? Can I say you smell of wee and your dad is gay?
Ohh and I don't see why need to have travelled on a train with my children to know it is courteous to consider fellow passengers on a train, just as it is courteous to consider others whatever I am doing in life.
Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the blind obediance of fools
(Solon, the lawmaker of athens 559BC)
mastiles_fanylionAgreed - I wouldn't have dreamt of taking my kids on a train as I couldn't imagine the hassle it would bring
So its beneath you to take your children on a train. And you keep claiming a parents rights trump all.
Of course it is courteous to consider other passengers on a train - by keeping the one specific bike storage area clear for bikes.
As you would know if you actually travelled by train there are plently of places to put buggies, there is no other space to put a bike.
But for you it " I am a parent and my needs are above everyone elses"
Its the childs needs too, remember TJ.
If there are no other places for a bike on a busy tube why did the OP manage to get on and complete his journey? Or should he insist a women with a baby should swap with him so she would get josstled by those entering and leaving a train. Think of the child's face.
I was abroad a few months ago, and on the train there were signs indicating certain seats should be given up for pregnant ladies, old folk, those with babies and even the injured. The train was packed and with the nipper strapped to me I had the right to stay in my designated baby and father seat. However, I gave it up for some one who was on crutches and looked as if he was in greater need. I'm sure there may have been an empty seat somewhere else, and appropriate storage for his crutches, but live and let live.
Ohh and I don't see why need to have travelled on a train with my children to know it is courteous to consider fellow passengers on a train, just as it is courteous to consider others whatever I am doing in life.
Except of course where said courtesy extends as far as not using spaces clearly marked as for use by someone else and you hold the "Baby On Board" trump card, ion which case the courtesy is extended to you and everyone else can go fk themselves.
Is parking in a cycle lane ok because you have a Baby on Board ok as well? Where do we stand on handicapped spaces in a car park if the parent and child spaces are taken?
So its beneath you to take your children on a train.
No, we just have never had a need to take them anywhere on a train as we have two cars that serve the purpose of providing transport for them already.
I really don't understand this latest angle of attack, it really is pointless and has absolutely nothing to do with either this thread or my attitude about being nice to people.
Is parking in a cycle lane ok because you have a Baby on Board ok as well? Where do we stand on handicapped spaces in a car park if the parent and child spaces are taken?
How about a garden furniture display in the bike parking stands at a supermarket? 😛
there are plently of places to put buggies
1 - A pram is not a buggy
2 - What if the spaces for luggage were already taken and the woman was using the last remaining space?
3 - Do you think it acceptable for a parent to struggle with their baby in their arms whilst trying to stow their pram somewhere so you can park your bike in its rightful space?
4 - Ohh, what's the point?
mastiles_fanylion - Member
.....Ohh, what's the point?
no point, it's a classic TJ threadjack 😆
no-one's actually had their journey disrupted by evil pram toting parents, no-one's had to jostle past ranks of parked pushchairs to exercise their rights and no children's faces have been harmed.....
....just the usuals doing their usual - stinking the forum right out
I'm conflicted, I agree with TJ but the children [i]are[/i] our future...
EDIT - I don't think it is a 'TJ threadjack' that's just a nice useful device for copping out of a discussion. Plenty of people have agreed with him.
no-one's actually had their journey disrupted by evil pram toting parents, no-one's had to jostle past ranks of parked pushchairs to exercise their rights and no children's faces have been harmed.....
But [b]if[/b] all those things had happened, it would be utter chaos.
don simon - Member
But if all those things had happened, it would be utter chaos.
whereas this is all serene contemplation of life's varied wonders and love for one's fellows 😆
mastiles_fanylion - Memberthere are plently of places to put buggies
1 - A pram is not a buggy
correct - a non folding pram requires a ticket being bought for it and is carried at the guards discretion
The woman is not using a luggage space - she is using a bicylce space and she can put the bggy in the doorway / vestibule2 - What if the spaces for luggage were already taken and the woman was using the last remaining space?
Yes - I would offer to help but unless I can put my bike on the train in the bike space I cannot travel3 - Do you think it acceptable for a parent to struggle with their baby in their arms whilst trying to stow their pram somewhere so you can park your bike in its rightful space?
4 - Ohh, what's the point?
I hoped yo might understand that consideration goes both ways and while the woman with the child has plenty of other options as you would know if yo had ever done this the cyclist has no other option
Yes - I would offer to help but unless I can put my bike on the train in the bike space I cannot travel
Are you seriously telling us that you have [b]never[/b] travelled on a train without putting your bike in the dedication bike space ?
Seriously.
You've never just stood with it, or put it somewhere else ?
Never.
Not once ?
🙄
(ps: if you say you haven't, I don't believe you. Just in case you were wondering)
Not for 20 years - its not allowed on Scotrail trains to travel without putting it in the bike space and the guards are hot on it. Fortunately they also stop people from putting other things in the bike space. You are not allowed to stand in the doorways / vestibule as it blocks the corridor.
I have also not been allowed on a train ( rightly) because a disable passenger had booked into the space and I have not been allowed on a train that already had 2 bikes on it.
I agree with TJ too. Can't see why parent can't move their stuff if there's room elsewhere. I don't remember ever having a problem transporting my twins on a train. And if I'd left my buggies in the bike space, I'd shift it if someone got on with a bike
You are not allowed to stand in the doorways / vestibule as it blocks the corridor.
But it is alright to put a buggy here? Hell our buggy folds pretty small but I would fall over it in a door way.
You can not apply the scotsrail rules (or at least your interpretation of them) to the rest of the country as each operator has there own. Like MF I don't use trains as they cost far to much for us compared to using the car which we have anyway.
no-one's actually had their journey disrupted by evil pram toting parents, no-one's had to jostle past ranks of parked pushchairs to exercise their rights and no children's faces have been harmed.....
Well, actually, my journey back from Manchester a few weeks ago was slightly less comfortable than it could have been, but with a bit of courtesy all round we managed to successfully accommodate my bike, a folding buggy, a young mother and two small children without blocking anybody else's way.
The twonks with the humungous wheelie-cases taking up the other half of the bike space are another matter, however... 👿
Yawn, think I might ride my bike tomorrow evening.
Can't believe TJ is still getting all airreated over a HYPOTHETICAL situation. If you cant get your bike in the bike space, just stand with it by the doors. I've done that all the way from Brighton to Portsmouth. Yes it was a PITA, but I lived. Is it really worth writing 6 pages of dross over nothing??
C'mon bigyinn, at least read the last couple of posts - Scotrail don't let you just stand by the doors with a bike, so it's a whole different level of PITA [b][u]if you aren't even able to travel on the train.[/b][/u]
Oh, and
Can't believe TJ is still getting all airreated over a HYPOTHETICAL situation
If it's hypothetical for TJ it's just as hypothetical for everyone else, why not have a pop at them?
bigyinn - Member
Can't believe [s]TJ[/s] [b]everyone[/b] is still getting all airreated over a HYPOTHETICAL situation.
FTFM
This is an obvious case for The Big Man to get involved in. What would he do?
Boot the buggy off OR boot TJ off?
thebikechain - Member
This is an obvious case for The Big Man to get involved in. What would he do?
Get arrested.
In the examples given (mother on her own, young baby)it's not really possible to fold up and stow the buggy, unless someone else offers to help.
Of course it is possible - I used to do it. Mothers become extremely adept at doing all sorts of seemingly impossible tasks whilst holding a baby, they have to!
Of course it is possible - I used to do it. Mothers become extremely adept at doing all sorts of seemingly impossible tasks whilst holding a baby, they have to!
Many prams require both hands in order to fold it. You cannot hold a baby at the same time.
Many prams require both hands in order to fold it. You cannot hold a baby at the same time.
Indeed, but if you know you'll need to fold it, you buy one you can fold easily - simples.