[Closed] Traveling by train ettiquette rant.

We used to get to college by train, on a really busy train to waterloo. We'd be waiting by our bikes in the bike compartment bit, and every single day, this dude would get on first, then stand in the doorway, pushing himself up against the wall so that all the other people waiting behind him on the platform could get past him.

Why not just get on last? Or why not go into the carriage and sit down? How do people this stupid survive day to day life?

I don't know what you're moaning about. It's not like you're paying for your bike. I would have thought that stowage space for luggage, pushchairs and bikes is first come first served.

If you want reserved bike space then you'd better be prepared to pay for it. It's £8 for a day ticket here in Switzerland and woe betide any suitcases or giant offroad pramulators which occupy the space that I have paid for!

Sounds like a busy train - was there really anywhere better for the pram to be parked??

Park the pram in the doorway or leave it at home,then there is the problem with prams in the wheelchair space its just so ignorant of passengers to block spaces that are specifically reserved.

Meh, maybe in the doorway would work, but from their perspective it's more in the way there than in the (vacant) bike bay. Using public transport with small children can be an absolute nightmare especially if your on your own.

Getting off trains while pushing a bike which has 720mm bars, pedals with pins and 2.5 inch knobbly tyres sure makes a hole through the idiotic throng who try to push onto the train before you have alighted. They only do it once...

The problem isn't that of a pram taking up bike space, it's of generic unreasonable moronic passengers of any type being unreasonable and moronic.

Park the pram in the doorway or leave it at home

Why not leave your bike at home? I guess you are a single bloke from your hatred of people with prams in YOUR space.

I had fun a while ago, I held my bike across the width of the train preventing the retards from forcing their way on. I politely (mostly) explained that the whole egress/ingress thing would go a lot more smoothly if they all got out of the way of the people trying to get off.

It didn't really work, but it made me feel better at least.

The problem isn't that of a pram taking up bike space, it's of generic unreasonable moronic passengers of any type being unreasonable and moronic.

there is a trend nowadays on rush hour trains for people to sit/stand in the vestibule areas/by the doors even when there loads of seats available on that same carriage, even when the nearest station is 30 minutes away.

It makes it difficult for people with luggage/prams/folding bikes as all the possible storage space is taken.

People are idiots, including those who ride bikes.

Ride your bike instead of getting the train 🙄

flippinheckler - Member

Ride your bike instead of getting the train

Living where he does, if he wants to go to Liverpool he can't.

Its either train or ferry if your on a bike.

Runcorn Bridge!

I presume he wants to stay alive so the bridge is out.

flippinheckler - Member

Ride your bike instead of getting the train

Living where he does, if he wants to go to Liverpool he can't.

Its either train or ferry if your on a bike.

I have riden twice through the old mersey tunnel that allows bikes to go through,after 8.00pm and sundays the fumes are so bad on the exit slopes you are panting for air,like an old bloke pumping up a sex doll.

Oh and i got told off by a rather pleasant tunnel officer, not because i was in the wrong, but because some motorist had been held up.

I must admit, I used to prefer the vestibule on packed Great Western Trains out of Paddington in the evening. You could open the window and smell fresh(ish) air as opposed to have your face pressed into armpit.

So even if there was standing space in the carriage, I'd choose the doorway in preference. Weren't many bikes or prams getting on at that time, but I don't recall ever getting in the way of them.

Get Mersey rail to invset in one of these!

[img] https://encrypted-tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSs59dpGcR4qKEmcPcBZhJSdKG_ZKZFCgOml45DHxL6joivxYPY [/img]

I have riden twice through the old mersey tunnel that allows bikes to go through,after 8.00pm and sundays the fumes are so bad on the exit slopes you are panting for air,like an old bloke pumping up a sex doll.

Ferry?
To be honest I'm a bit surprised they let bikes onto trains during the rush hour.

Did you ask her to move it? Usually its clear from the signage that its a space for bikes.

Buy a Brompton?

I take my Dahon on the train a lot. I fold it and stick it either in the luggage section on it's side or in the bike storage area against the glass partition. Normally I'm the only one who folds their bike, the other guys tend not to for some reason. I often chat to a Brompton'ite about commuting and he's been doing it for many years more than I have, he says he often just shoves prams and wheelchairs out of the way..or stands in the doorway blocking everyone else, he doesn't seem that bothered what other folk think.
Then there are the Students going to college, these are on their non foldie normal bikes and just stick them in the doorways so no one can get on/off and they don;t seem to care either.
Then there are folks like me who seem to have a little consideration for others, I'm defiantly in the minority.

I take my bike on the train a fair amount. there are bicycle spaces - I expect to use them and usually there is no problem

I stopped commuting by bike/train (Nether Edge/Rotherham) after my 'incident' with a train manager. Felt miles better and got fit. But ended up with bad saddle sores cos I had to sit for 8 hours in my sweat! Still better than commuting by train with a bike.

'incident' with a train manager

do tell...

there is a trend nowadays on rush hour trains for people to sit/stand in the vestibule areas/by the doors even when there loads of seats available on that same carriage, even when the nearest station is 30 minutes away.

This is true it quite annoying at times.

There is always someone who will try to push on when your waiting for other passengers to get off no matter what.

Was there space for the woman to put her pram somewhere else? If the was then you should have asked her to move (or do the simple thing and put your bike in that space). If there was nowhere else for her to put it then what did you expect her to do?

So youre waiting on the platform for the train, that has double automatic opening doors, people are waiting to get on and off, so you allow the ones on the train to get off, while the braindead muppets around you swarm onto the train stopping the ones getting off and almost forcing them between the platform and train.

welcome to germany!

oh.. you're in the UK.

but that pretty much sums up the german mentality to commuting by train. people swarm around the door. they'll start shuffling in the direction the train is travelling as it pulls in and collect infront of the door. they'll push onto the train as others are trying to get out.

i now just stand there not letting people on if i'm trying to get out and will loudly make it clear to them that i think they are stupid. doesn't do much in the long run, but helps me cope.....

edit: as Schweiz... be happy that you can take your bike on the train for free. i have to pay 5€ to take my bike onto a train in Bavaria and even then there is no garuntee that you'll be allowed to take your bike onto the train.

but that pretty much sums up the german mentality to commuting by train. people swarm around the door. they'll start shuffling in the direction the train is travelling as it pulls in and collect infront of the door. they'll push onto the train as others are trying to get out.

At London Bridge there's a tendency for folk to just stand on the platform in front of the doors and give you no space to get off the train first. I just stand in the doorway and make eye-contact until the penny drops and generally the commuting sheep get out of the way. No confrontation necessary.

a woman with a pram has taken the one and only bike space fitted out with racks for 2 bikes, so then youre forced to stand in the door vestibule

I think the etiquette here might be to ask your parents to remove the stabilisers from your bike, then it might slip in beside the pram.
Or you could just flip out a copy of the Daily Mail (which I'm sure you carry with you at all times for just such an emergency) and pretend to read it whilst harumphing your displeasure at such inconvenience.

Never had too much trouble with idiots around the doors, standing on their toes or shouting "Excuse Me!!!" as I launch out of the doors with a suitcase normally helps (so does the beard and an axe murder impression), I normally step forward elbows out while waiting to get on keeping others back and will always offer to help people off with their luggage whilst getting in the way of the idiots.

As for stuff in the bike spaces if the train is full well tough you've got a bike ride to work properly.

The main issue with UK trains is the fact that the doors are so small, most French trains have bigger doors so more throughput at stations.

As an aside when I was commuting from Glasgow on the trains people kept getting off to have a fag (non smoking trains) I asked the guy on the platform if it delayed the train waiting for them to get back on, he assured me it never did though they were generally pissed off when the train left without them.

As for stuff in the bike spaces if the train is full well tough you've got a bike ride to work properly.

Not so - although I try to avoid peak times a cycle space is just that - space for a bike and bikes have priority people should not put luggage there and its the only place you are allowed to have a bike - prams for instance must fold and go in the luggage spaces

boxfish - Member
Buy a Brompton?

Damn, beat me to it.

prams for instance must fold and go in the luggage spaces

And what if it is one of these prams?
[img] [/img]

Staggering, TJ's comment. I'd give up my bike space for a buggie and baby especially on a crowded train.

Not so - although I try to avoid peak times a cycle space is just that - space for a bike and bikes have priority people should not put luggage there and its the only place you are allowed to have a bike - prams for instance must fold and go in the luggage spaces

Been here before but just trying to add it up a sign saying bike space means bikes only, a sign saying no bikes please private land means ride where you like.......

I'd give up my bike space for a buggie and baby especially on a crowded train.

I'm not so sure, I mean babies are nice and all, but what will you do with it when you have to go to work ??

😆

And what if it is one of these prams?

Anyone who buys one of those and expects to mingle with other people is a pillock!

Anyway - I've just had a brilliant idea. For those who don't want to get/can't afford a whole new folding bike, how about a quick release stem that you can just swing round so it's in line with the bars? That would make life stacks easier if you have to use commuter trains with the vestibules.

Anyone who buys one of those and expects to mingle with other people is a pillock!

Ridiculous to take a bike on a rush-hour / crowded train.
I did it once and was so embarrassed. Felt like the bike was taking up space that people could have been standing in. I mean; it's a bike... ride it... don't take it on a train!!

Well I expect the idea behind paying for a train would be that it's too far to ride...?

One of the many reasons I can't stand trains - a large percentage of the people who use them are unhelpful, rude, stupid, ill or some combination of the above, on top of the cost. I resorted to cycling 17 miles instead of using the damn things.

Yep - I would too, without a moment's hesitation.

I would too, out of social pressure. However in the back of my head I'd still be thinking they've chosen to have a kid just the same as I chose to bring a bike, so it's even stevens.

Do you respect everyone's choices, no matter how small CK? What about those who choose to eat noisily near you, or smoke?

I cannot believe you think a person with a non folding pram - that is not allowed on trains - should be given priority over a bike - which is allowed- in the designated bike space!

Just stop and think for a mo. There is no other place allowed for me to put my bike - not allowed in the doorways. My bike allowed on th train, the non folding pram is not.

so yo are saying I should not be allowed to make my planned journey because someone has used the bike space for a pram that is not allowed on th train?

Do you respect everyone's choices, no matter how small CK? What about those who choose to eat noisily near you, or smoke?

I'd probably walk away to be honest, can't stand noisy eaters, though I have been known to ask people to stop smoking once in a while.

the non folding pram is not.

Each customer can carry, free of charge, three items of personal luggage - two large items (such as a suitcase or rucksack), plus one item of hand luggage. You can also take up to two dogs, or cats, or other domestic animals, folded prams, [b]non-folding prams[/b] and carrycots, wheelchairs, including battery operated models where wheels are no larger than those on self-propelled wheelchairs, or any article which does not exceed 1 metre in any dimension and which can be carried by one person.

so yo are saying I should not be allowed to make my planned journey because someone has used the bike space for a pram that is not allowed on th train?

I was about to say what's allowed on trains depends on the operator I think. IIRC northern trains used to refuse bikes and prams in peak times.

Yep, still is:[url= http://www.northernrail.org/travel/cycling/bikes-on-trains ]

We can only carry a maximum of two bikes per train but conductors have responsibility for the safety of their train and have the right to refuse entry if the train is busy.

Makes a mockery of "committed to cycling" when you can't use it from about 730am to about 10am.

Anyway - I've just had a brilliant idea. For those who don't want to get/can't afford a whole new folding bike, how about a quick release stem that you can just swing round so it's in line with the bars? That would make life stacks easier if you have to use commuter trains with the vestibules.

decent stems that do that - as used by Dahon:

http://www.nvocomponents.com/

The other problem I found with bikes on trains was when you're the second person in, the first person wants to get out you both have to exit the carriage or shift a bunch of standing folk out of the way. And if you're not fast enough the person who's BSO is in before yours just rams yours out of the way, scratching it, twanging spokes etc.

I hate public transport.

MF - read on down thoiose FAQs- the non folding pram has to be booked on and a ticket for it paid for. If so then its fine to be on the train - but still not in the bike bit. On most Scotrail trains it is clearly marked - "bicycle space - do not leave luggage here"

TJ, your first comment didn't differentiate between it being a folding or non folding buggie.

Any how, mother and 6 month old gets on a crowded train. We don't know the reason why she has to get a train nor she may not know the rules about buggies. She may have bought a ticket for a buggie. She has probebly been up half the night, and the child is crying and teething. She also has a bad back from all the lifting. She is of course is not complaining, but is expected to place her child on the carriage floor and fold the buggie away in the correct storage, just so some mountain biker can exercise his right on a technicality, asks her to move, rather than showing a bit of humility.

Anyone who wouldn't give up there space for a pram is a miserable so and so, unless it was Vicky Pollard.

Any how, mother and 6 month old gets on a crowded train. We don't know the reason why she has to get a train nor she may not know the rules about buggies. She has probebly been up half the night, and the child is crying and teething. She also has a bad back from all the lifting.

Quite frankly don't see why I should care - she chose to have a kid. It doesn't somehow make you a saint, it just means you're another person who made a choice that is now inconveniencing them and you're having to deal with it. When I'm in that situation I'll deal with it.

showing a bit of humility.

Not really humility you're thinking of I don't think.

I don't think so TJ - that charge is for ADDITIONAL luggage over and above the free allowance, in which the pram is included.

But still that is beside the point, you said non-folding prams are not allowed, that site says they are. Not sure what argument you are trying to make.

Scamper - so I cannot complete my journey? She can put the kid on a seat. There is a big sign that says bicycle space - do not leave luggage here. I cannot put my bike anywhere else.

No MF - non folding prams are not allowed unless booked on I am pretty sure.

The point is you want me not to be allowed to complete my journey despite being within the rules but a parent can break the rules and block me from getting on the train?

[img] [/img]

No MF - non folding prams are not allowed unless booked on I am pretty sure.

Quite frankly don't see why I should care

Because you're a fellow human being?

I will go out of my way to help people regardless of why they need it, in general.

NB this also applies to the pram using mother.

Put your bike in the door area like anyone sensible would do ?

Who's "stopping you from completing your journey" ??

http://www.nvocomponents.com/

Doesn't look like it's quick release though..?

TJ, we are not talking about you and a theoretical journey. The OP got on the train to complete his journey, and you have suggested you'd have asked the mother to move. It's this I find surprising.

Because you're a fellow human being?

I will go out of my way to help people regardless of why they need it, in general.

NB this also applies to the pram using mother.

So will I, but if their needs conflict with mine and they're being inconsiderate taking up space reserved for another use then why do they get preference? What I'm saying is you don't get special treatment for having a kid, you're no different to someone who just dumped a load of luggage there and couldn't be bothered to pack it away properly (assuming it's a folding buggy).

Each customer can carry, free of charge............. You can also take ...............non-folding prams ..............

The charge for any item outlined above (except cycles) is half the adult fare appropriate to the type of ticket held for the journey per item - subject to a maximum charge (presently £5 single, £10 return).

Bicycles used to be in this category of thing that you needed to book on but it was altered years ago. Yes a non folding pram can be booked on a train but in practice it will only be accepted on trains with a guards van not on the small trains. It is not allowed to be put in the cycle space even if booked on. That is a space reserved for bikes and is the only space a bike is allowed on.

So you really think that it is justified that I can be prevented from taking my journey with my bike that is within the rules by a someone leaving a baby buggy in the cycle space that is against the rules? You think I should just accept this?

Scamper - Member

TJ, we are not talking about you and a theoretical journey. The OP got on the train to complete his journey, and you have suggested you'd have asked the mother to move. It's this I find surprising.

Damn right - [i]I cannot get on the train unless she does[/i] and there is a big sign saying cycle space. She can put the buggy elsewhere - I'll help her to organise it

nealglover - Member

Put your bike in the door area like anyone sensible would do ?

Who's "stopping you from completing your journey" ??

Not allowed as you block the way up and down the train and guards will put people off trains for doing so.

TJ, we are not talking about you and a theoretical journey.

You are now.

Another thread has been TJ'd ®

Christ alive TJ, you are even trying to twist the ScotRail wording on their website...

[i][b]Each customer can carry, free of charge[/b], three items of personal luggage - two large items (such as a suitcase or rucksack), plus one item of hand luggage. [b]You can also take[/b] up to two dogs, or cats, or other domestic animals, folded prams, [b]non-folding prams[/b] and carrycots, wheelchairs, including battery operated models where wheels are no larger than those on self-propelled wheelchairs, or any article which does not exceed 1 metre in any dimension and which can be carried by one person.

[b]****Items for which charges are payable:***[/b] each additional item of luggage over the free allowance, each additional dog, cat or other small animal above the free allowance, each article exceeding 1 metre in any dimension but which must be capable of being carried by one person.

Separate conditions apply to the carraige of pets on our Caledonian Sleeper service. Please click here for full details.

The charge for any item outlined above (except cycles) is half the adult fare appropriate to the type of ticket held for the journey per item - subject to a maximum charge (presently £5 single, £10 return). No further discounts will be available for Railcard or Season Ticket holders. Excess luggage charges do not apply to Caledonian Sleeper Services.[/i]

Thats right - you want to take a non folding pram you have to book and pay for it. Its quite clear.

I agree that bike spaces are not for luggage, but when it comes to a parents with pushchairs, luggage and kids in tow I'll help them out, but this will include folding their chair up to squeeze in next to my bike. Most of the time they are unable to fold it up though due to the baggage they require for the day that is invariable tied to it, or squeezed in it.

All too often I've seen mothers with their kids sitting on the floor in the spaces between carriages because it's too difficult for them to store their gear and go get a table and control the kids. I think we have a civic duty to help ensure their journey isn't hell.

Three of us once used a train with a guards carriage. We went in and put our bikes against the wall inside, there was nothing to tie the bikes up with. We were asked to leave. 35 miles later we went to get our bikes and found one panel inside the carriage had been dented in terribly. One bikes grips had been chewed up as the bike spun on the floor. That's what happens when you're sticking 45-55lb freeride/bighit bikes in there.....

[img] [/img]
/p>

Sign says this is a cycle priority area, a kid in a pram on a busy train takes priority over a bike in my book. And what would you do if there was already two bikes in the area?

Since when did a buggy become a peice of luggage? does that mean that a dog is a peice of luggage? A wheel chair? The very few times i have used a train i have folded the buggy up and hung it in the 'bike area' and have then stood next to it as its not like you can put it any where else. You can yet again tell the TJ doesn't have children as he is advicating puting a small child who is likly to roll off on to a seat while you walk away from them.
What are you going to do if there are alrady 2 bikes in 'your' space?

TandemJeremy - Member
Thats right - you want to take a non folding pram you have to book and pay for it. Its quite clear.

Take the dog as an example. Dogs are not included in the 3 items, they are listed along with prams.

The next paragraph states that charges are payable for items [i]over the free allowance[/i] including each additional dog.

TJ, we are not talking about you and a theoretical journey.

You are now.

Another thread has been TJ'd ®

Quality!

Funny how TJ is an absolute stickler for the rules as long as it fits in with his view of things.

Rewski - more than two bikes I would try to fit it on the rack but its the guards discretion and I have been refused on a train under those situations.

It is not a pram priority everywhere - you really think that a mother with kids being on a train and putting the baby buggy in the cycle space where it is not allowed means I should not be allowed to make my journey?

Put your bike in the door area like anyone sensible would do ?
Who's "stopping you from completing your journey" ??

Not allowed as you block the way up and down the train and guards will put people off trains for doing so.

Not if there is a pushchair in the designated bike space they won't (not your fault it's blocked)

And as you know this perfectly well, I can only guess you are being deliberately argumentative (as usual) and I'll not bother any further.

(Can you explain how that killfile thing for ignoring numpties who talk sh1t works please ?)

Druidh - you missed the max 1m in any dimesnsion bit. - you are only allowed those things for free below 1m max dimension and capable of being carried by one person - this is so they can go in the luggage spaces

Each customer can carry,............ or any article which does not exceed 1 metre in any dimension and which can be carried by one person.

****Items for which charges are payable:***........... each article exceeding 1 metre in any dimension but which must be capable of being carried by one person.

I used to use the trains when bikes had to meet this rules as well - so you paid a half fare up to £5 for the bike but then were guaranteed a space

The reason for the 1 m stipulation is that this is to make sure the item can go in the luggage spaces