[Closed] Training and diet talk...

[i]Plenty of people can stay lean without going Paleo. Without iDieting and without training loads.

They probably have never over-eaten and never been dishonest with themselves about what they do eat.

If you cook from scratch and don't favour creamy sauces... 9 times out of 10 you'll be the right side of the obesity statistics. You'll probably live to a ripe old age and hopefully enjoyed life too.
[/i]

TSY.
Lots of incorrect assumptions there.
As I've mentioned before, from someone such as you, how could you possibly know anything about weight control through diet, when you are so hyper active ?.
😀

i think because of the relative success of my gymming and other dietry changes i had been fooling myself in thinking the milk and sugar were ok, but now past the general fat loss stage and onto the stubborn stuff its time to cut the sugar and milk.

no more hot sweet cups of tea post ride at jos house 🙁

[i]i think because of the relative success of my gymming and other dietry changes i had been fooling myself in thinking the milk and sugar were ok, but now past the general fat loss stage and onto the stubborn stuff its time to cut the sugar and milk.

no more hot sweet cups of tea post ride at jos house
[/i]

Perhaps not completely cut-out.
Just remove it from being a habitual and repeated choice.

DG.
Do you still get cravings for sugary post milk in your tea ?.

how could you possibly know anything about weight control through diet

He can know what works for him, and in reality this is the most [i]fact[/i] anyone can know.

Lots of incorrect assumptions there.

How so? Which ones?

So all those people who've lived into their 90's... they were Paleo? They knew about the iDiet?

I'm not knocking what you choose to eat or the benefits of the iDiet for some, but your standpoint does verge on ridiculous sometimes.

Phil.W

You obviously have a huge hard-on for me.
I don't care why and pay no attention whatsoever to whatever you post.
😉

TSY.
Firstly, don't confuse me with [i]pushing[/i] Paleo / iDave.
I am, however, intrigued by the under lying science.
And the rest, I can't be assed to pull you up on.
Especially as you consistently miss my point about eating habits established over a lifetime, which in later life, people then struggle to break when the weight goes up.

Do you still get cravings for sugary post milk in your tea

Plenty of people can stay lean without going Paleo. Without iDieting and without training loads.

They probably have never over-eaten

Many people do not get fat at all, no matter what they eat.

i've only got 4 months til the weddingythingy 😯 time to get stuck in to the butterfield diet!

Especially as you consistently miss my point about eating habits established over a lifetime, which in later life, people then struggle to break when the weight goes up.

Eh? So the habits of someone that has lived into their 90's?
Eating bread, meat and 2 veg meals, porridge, cake.

Would you tell that person to change their 'habits'?

You obviously have a huge hard-on for me.
I don't care why and pay no attention whatsoever to whatever you post.

solo, what are you talking about?

Yeti, someone who's lived to 90 might've lived to 100 had they eaten differently, or had better quality of life in old age.

You just never know.

Many people do not get fat at all, no matter what they eat.

Eh? So the habits of someone that has lived into their 90's?
Eating bread, meat and 2 veg meals, porridge, cake.

Would you tell that person to change their 'habits'?

These two quotes go together.

What about all the 90-year-old's school chums with the same diet who died in their fifies? Maybe the OAP was just one of the lucky ones? My wife's gran smokes and is still alive and kicking at 83.

Equally, weight and health don't go hand-in-hand. My sister's father-in-law is thin as a rake and a very physically active fifty-something, but he has heart problems.

Until you get the health problems, you don't know which type you are. So, it's better to not smoke. It's better to be physically active. It's better to not be overweight.

Some people live a long time despite being fat, chain-smoking, alcoholic couch potatoes. Doesn't mean you will.

I think it was Woody Allen that said...

"You can live to 100 if you give up all the things that make you want to live to 100"

You might get run over by a bus on the way home tonight? What's your point? They eat a healthy balanced diet, just like Edukator.

Mol - this may be wrong of me, but reading between the lines in your posts about diet and the iDiet... do you think you fall into the category of being dishonest about what you eat?

mike - I'd imagine if you surveyed those who've lived long into old age there would be certain recurrent themes, or trends in the lifestyle choices they'd made.

The Paleo diet would not feature in these trends.

a) I would not discount it and
b) that proves nothing anyway.

mike - I'd imagine if you surveyed those who've lived long into old age there would be certain recurrent themes, or trends in the lifestyle choices they'd made.

Hence why I exercise, don't smoke, only drink in moderation and eat proper food.

The Paleo diet would not feature in these trends.

Paleo wouldn't, but perhaps type and quantity of carbs would? Weight (or BMI or body fat %) would almost certainly feature and shorter-term studies could show how diet would affect these?

I'm also interested in quality of life, as well as quantity. As an asthmatic, paleo/iDiet makes sense for me, as reducing wheat and dairy should benefit my asthma.

Plus, I get to eat bacon, egg and chorizo and drink red wine 🙂

most old people i know boast about how unhealthy they'd been by todays standards, eating bricks of lard for brekky, smoking 60 a day because the doctor said it was good for their throat when they were 12... that kinda thing.

i've never met or worked with an old person who said 'i'm glad i never had white bread'

EDIT:

I'm also interested in quality of life, as well as quantity. As an asthmatic, paleo/iDiet makes sense for me, as reducing wheat and dairy should benefit my asthma.

that's a good reason 🙂 i'm trying to manage my body fat and exercise more to slow down the onset of type 2 diabetes and the gradual crumbling of my spine. when i'm older i hope i can look back and say i'm glad i did it for those reasons... i know that i wont look back and say 'i'm glad i had visible abs when i was 27'

we could argue anecdotal stories all day, we probably all know someone who:

a)smoked, did drugs and ate lard but lived to the age of 90
b)was super healthy but died running a marathon
c)developed weight realted problems in old age
d)had a fun life but developed dementia and forgot about it.

Molly, why doesn't it?

(apart from the fact that we're not discussing real data)

I'm starting to feel like Edukator. iDiet is great for fatties etc. Paleo will keep you skinny. Self-restraint is a wonderful thing.

Mike - Totally agree... especially on BMI/weight... I suppose the crux of the topic is how those living towards 100 have controlled theirs?

To those who are swimming then cycling then running. or doing all three in of the same things in one training routine. Please stop. You are training as a triathlete does. It is wrong on all levels.

*shudders

Rule #42 // A bike [s]race [/s]ride shall never be preceded with a swim and/or followed by a run.
If it’s preceded with a swim and/or followed by a run, it is not called a bike race, it is called duathlon or a triathlon. Neither of which is a bike race. Also keep in mind that one should only swim in order to prevent drowning, and should only run if being chased. And even then, one should only run fast enough to prevent capture.

I suppose the crux of the topic is how those living towards 100 have controlled theirs?

Maybe they're just one of the lucky people whose bodies don't respond to fast carbs by making them weigh 100kg? Like me 🙂

I suppose the crux of the topic is how those living towards 100 have controlled theirs?

100 whats? If you mean years why do you care. Wouldn't you rather live to 50 but have lived a better 50. By this I don't mean being a big fat smoker and dyeing at 50

But how many people does it really make put on huge amounts of weight?

Sure if you eat a whole flipping loaf... but a couple of slices a day?

People are getting fat... they don't move enough and they eat ready meals. A lot of them drink sugary drinks all day and have chocolate bars and crisps as snacks.

It really isn't hard.

[i]Would you tell that person to change their 'habits'?[/i]

Yes, if that resulted in them being over weight and suffering from excess weight related health / lifestyle issues.

If on the other thand, they are eating whatever takes their fancy and suffer rude health.

Good luck to them, I'll not be bothering them with any of the stuff I don't [i]know[/i].

TSY.
Imo, your approach to understanding this topic is fundamentally flawed.
I ask you again, how can you observe any diet related effects to your body weight, when you exercise execcssively.
Your movement regime may be good for racing, no doubt, but has no real world application.
The real workld being were most of us non-triahtletes live.

[i]But how many people does it really make put on huge amounts of weight?

Sure if you eat a whole flipping loaf... but a couple of slices a day?

People are getting fat... they don't move enough and they eat ready meals. A lot of them drink sugary drinks all day and have chocolate bars and crisps as snacks.

[b]It really isn't hard. [/b]
[/i]
To eat like a yeti, so long as you exercise like a yeti.

Yes, if that resulted in them being over weight and suffering from excess weight related health / lifestyle issues.

They're already in their 90's FFS...

Solo - you ASSume that I've always exercised this much.
My approach is to look at others. Friends, colleagues, relatives. You don't assume that everyone I know goes to the gym for hours everyday? Do you?

Also - the level of exercise I do could be seen to give me more levers to pull when it comes to analysing the move more eat less idea.

Right, off to the gym 😛

[i]They're already in their 90's FFS...[/i]

What ?, and they got properly fat overnight ?.

[i]My approach is to look at others[/i]
And your conclusion is ?????, to follow the Edukator diet.

philw - are you Phil from TT (s'mooth, IM, D'king etc)? Just wondering and could probably read thru all of this thread to check. If so, you did Paleo didn't you and wrote about it on TT?

And your conclusion is ?????, to follow the Edukator diet.

that's not what i'm getting...

the iDiet is designed to help chunksters get down to a certain level.

yeti appears to be saying that if you dont let yourself get to the chunkster stage to begin with by exercising regularly and eating well instead of eating junk foods, snacking on sugars and drinking sugars then you dont need to iDiet or obsess about every little part of a diet.

and those that have specific targets, will adjust their diet towards those targets, not always for the best health reasons.... but who has the right to say a target of visible abs is worse than a target of being number one on the podium or to have lived a fun life without the constant obsession and restrictions most dieters seem to live with!

Molly, why doesn't it?

Cos no-one was considering the Paeleo diet 90 years ago. In 70 years time we might see loads of people living healthy and happy lives into their 100s, due the Paeleo diet. Insufficient data now though.

For the record, I was never fat, but I have lost 10kg on iDiet. 10kg I didn't need around my internal organs.

I was never fat, but I have lost 10kg on iDiet. 10kg I didn't need around my internal organs.

depends on your individual definition of fat doesn't it... i've lost 14kg and i would've classed myself as fat. fat surrounding internal organs is more dangerous that subcutaneous fat as far as i know...

yeti appears to be saying that if you dont let yourself get to the chunkster stage to begin with by exercising regularly and eating well instead of eating junk foods, snacking on sugars and drinking sugars then you dont need to iDiet or obsess about every little part of a diet.

Hmm.. but it's not always just sugar that makes you get a bit tubby. The point is that the Western diet is full of starch, which is almost as bad. Bread and potatoes etc.

our western diet wouldn't be as potentially bad for us if we didnt have a western lifestyle surely.... sitting at computers all day, going home to sit on the sofa and shout at people doing exercise on the Tv as if we could do it better whilst drinking a beer...

[i]the iDiet is designed to help chunksters get down to a certain level. [/i]

Are you sure ?....

[i]iDave - Member
The iDave diet as used here by biffers isn't and never has been for elite level endurance athletes in the form it has been given away here.
But elements of it are very valid are are used.

iDave - Member
the iDave diet is for endurance athletes also, but they would use some carbs before during and after some training and events.

iDave - Member
the iDave diet is not a racing diet, never was.
[/i]

Cos I'm F'd if I know what the iDiet is.

[i]yeti appears to be saying that if you dont let yourself get to the chunkster stage to begin with by exercising regularly and eating well instead of eating junk foods, snacking on sugars and drinking sugars then you dont need to iDiet or obsess about every little part of a diet.[/i]
So you're describing education.
And therein lies the problem.
One person's [i]healthy[/i] is another persons [i]poison[/i], all in their opinion.
The misinformation and out of date [i]opinion[/i] that now exists here on the web, regarding diet, is mahoosive.

How do we define [i]healthy[/i]

the iDiet for performance athletes is just the same only with a beer enema before and after short events under two hours. for events longer than two hours you must I repeat must also re-hydrate with a beer enema during the 2nd 3rd of the 1st 3rd of the event. Then eat some chick peas with wasabi sauce to revitalize with essential electrolytes (salts for the lay person).

So you're describing education.
And therein lies the problem.
One person's healthy is another persons poison, all in their opinion.
The misinformation and out of date opinion that now exists here on the web, regarding diet, is mahoosive.

How do we define healthy

i'm not describing education, i'm describing active people who don't eat take-aways every night and drink 5 pints on the way home from work.

opinion is pretty key here yes, as an example i have a patient who's opinion is that he's not overweight and his weight isn't an issue. my opinion is that at 21 stone, 5'6" and out of control diabetes... it is an issue.

how do we define healthy? i'd say 'the absence of a health problem'

[i]opinion is pretty key here yes, as an example i have a patient who's opinion is that he's not overweight and his weight isn't an issue. my opinion is that at 21 stone, 5'6" and out of control diabetes... it is an issue.[/i]

So, does Mr X need a little learning up ?.

I certainly did.
iDave's advice, such as it is, has helped a lot as far as setting me on a path of investigation and self experiment.

How else do people with a diet related weight issue, address their situation if not through re-education ?.

I maintain.
You simply shouldn't rely on running around like a headless chicken, in order to control your waistline and to mitigate bad food choices.

Education is the key, imo.

EDIT:
[i]how do we define healthy? i'd say 'the absence of a health problem' [/i]

What ?, is that a bit like "[i]That which does not kill me, makes me healthy[/i] ".

Cos I can't help asking about the timescale for that philosophy.

Just finishing my lunch off with a coffee and KitKat chunky. I didn't buy the KKC myself, rather the lady of the house gave it to me with the coffee (tiny drop of milk, no sugar) as we're doing such a fab job on the floor. What can you do sometimes? It would have been rude to refuse.

Circuits last night.
Beer tonight.
Circuits tomorrow morning.
5'7" 70 something kg (don't own weighing scales)
Pretty awesome individual all-round if a little humble sometimes.

*Falls over*

well healthy is a relative thing, i'm healthier than i was last year if you measure it in terms of body fat. but i'm unhealthier with regards to other aspects of my being.

there are many types of health, physical health, mental health, financial health etc etc etc. so with regards to defining the word 'healthy' i maintain that its a state in which the individual is not currently experiencing any ill-health.

its easy for fat people to say they're healthy because they can do 5k on a treadmill, or keep up with their other chunky friends on a 3 hour weekend ride (1 hours riding spread over 3 hours) but that'd be like saying a marathon runner with heart problems is healthy because of his low bodyfat. its all relative, individual and down to ones cultural perception of good health.

[i]its easy for fat people to say they're healthy because they can do 5k on a treadmill, or keep up with their other chunky friends on a 3 hour weekend ride (1 hours riding spread over 3 hours) but that'd be like saying a marathon runner with heart problems is healthy because of his low bodyfat. its all relative, individual and down to ones cultural perception of good health. [/i]

Or to put it another way, describing what healthy [i]is[/i], is like nailing jelly to the wall.

Yet, look at how many folk on here tell me brown bread IS healthy....

[i]They eat a healthy balanced diet, just like Edukator.[/i]

See what I mean ?.
😉

Are you discussing health or fitness?

DD.

Sorry, I have been remiss.

Its been a long time, AFAIK.
Welcome back to the nut house.

[img] [/img]

Double D!

dont even bother talking to 40DD, he's only 5'7" 😯

at 70kg i could benchpress him

*has the strangest....*