[Closed] Tottenham Riots

i have always wondered about this youth club thing, i didn't have access when young, you just got on with things. You knew basically what was right and wrong and got on with it.

Always seems to be this looking for excuses, maybe there is an argument for a gloves off curfew approach, if your on the street your guilty, a return to the riot acts.

Kimbers, how many of the muppets looting and rioting today do you think have ever been to one of the aforementioned youth clubs?

Kimbers - it's not an excuse. Our youth club was closed when I was a kid (I'm from Hull so I think it counted as an urban area with significant deprivation and unemployment in the 80s). Nobody rioted as a result of it.

mrmo - Member
i have always wondered about this youth club thing, i didn't have access when young, you just got on with things. You knew basically what was right and wrong and got on with it.

If you've ever lived in london you'll know these youths have no interest in bettering themselves- its free money and bitches.

So kimbers what I'm reading that as, if the youth clubs where open right now there would be no rioting right now?

I highly doubt that. I agree that there are not as many YC open as there used to be and it is a shame, but I don't believe that if the local YC was open the rioting would never have started.

Hope they get caught and dealt with appropriately

Yep what Mrmo said

If you've ever lived in london you'll know these youths have no interest in bettering themselves- its free money and bitches

I like you Hora. But you talk so much shit it's untrue.

You do not get riots without a large disenchanted and disenfranchised population.

The only way to prevent further riots is to bring these people back into society.

27 people charged so far, somebodies taking the piss

The only way to prevent further riots is to bring these people back into society.

And how, in your little socialist utopia, does that happen when "these people" don't want to be a part of society, no matter how much money you spunk on "youth clubs" and "initiatives"?

Is there any attempt, on this thread, at an elightened discussion on what causes a whole section of society to feel so disenfranchised that they consider rioting to be acceptable? Or is it the same old Daily Mail knee jerk shite?

I want to know how much of my life I should waste trawling through it...

TSY - We all agree rioting is a "bad thing". Some people think it's the fault of the white middle class oppressor. Some people think it's all down to johnny foreigner coming over here and stealing our yaks. Usual suspects espouse usual views. I think that mostly covers it.

The Southern Yeti - Member
Is there any attempt, on this thread, at an elightened discussion on what causes a whole section of society..

TJ, how do you integrate these people.

You have a young population who are basically semi-literate and numerate so of little use to any employer. A group who have basically opted out of "normal" society. If you look at those on the streets where are their parents, I find it hard to believe they don't know what there kids are doing.

Spread to Croydon now there is a common demographic theme emerging.

Croydon has been hit hard! It's on BBC world news now!

Half a faaazand.

Thanks atlaz... seems my facebook campaign to get a riot going in West Oxfordshire isn't going to get much support here then.

www.yetisriiotinginoxford.com

Bastid... 😡

(Throws poobomb at TSY)

Or is it the same old Daily Mail knee jerk shite?

most of it is people dismissing opinion as Daily Mail knee jerk shite

really sad and scarry , real time pictures on bbc.

I feel like I'm living in the opening chapters of one of those dystopian novels where society breaks down and everybody returns to living in little cut-off communities like it was the middle ages or something. Although there's no fanciful trope to set the scene like Triffids or what not, this being reality and all...

Personally speaking, I think the looters are a lot of nasty thugs and bullies. If it turned out the only way to restore order and protect people's lives and property was for the Police to steam in with batons drawn and give them a good belting, breaking some heads in the process and after rounding them up, chuck them in prison to wait for three years before their trials came up, it honestly wouldn't bother me.

It's all disgraceful.

I never thought I would say this but looking at the pictures I am not sure I would care if live rounds were used on a few of them. But looking at what is going on in other parts of the world makes me feel sick and guilty for even entertaining the thought.

When you look at what the people in Libya and Syria are going through and then look at these selfish, ignorant bastards. If they don't like the UK then move somewhere else, preferably to some country where you really don't have any rights and they will use live rounds on you. ( for the record I don't care what religion, colour etc anyone is - this is not the behaviour of people who deserve any of the benefits and freedoms we luckily take for granted in this country.)

Even the use rubber bullets is a horrendous thought but if only they could be used with Apaches! That will give them something to think about. In fact maybe they should send them in to scare the crap out of them - I am sure our pilots can fire pretty close without hitting anyone! (tongue in cheek as any action using any weaponbs is crossing a line that you can't go back from)

I just hope that something peaceful can be done quickly to sort this out. But it is scary when you look at all the burning buildings.

The Southern Yeti - Member

Is there any attempt, on this thread, at an elightened discussion on what causes a whole section of society to feel so disenfranchised that they consider rioting to be acceptable? Or is it the same old Daily Mail knee jerk shite?

Guess what. Its the same old reactionary rubbish. 🙄

TandemJeremy - Member

You do not get riots without a large disenchanted and disenfranchised population.

The only way to prevent further riots is to bring these people back into society.

quite.

why would disaffected youth value their community or take pride in working there and contributing to it positively when subsequent labour governments have led to a system where you get as much $ collecting your pay from the hand-outs as you would if you actually had to get up in the morning and work for it?

as if that's not enough, our favourite etonian PM bless him, dares to suggest that people should contribute to his big society- the straw that broke the camel's back!

education and parenting IMO

The Southern Yeti - Member
Is there any attempt, on this thread, at an elightened discussion on what causes a whole section of society to feel so disenfranchised that they consider rioting to be acceptable? Or is it the same old Daily Mail knee jerk shite?

I want to know how much of my life I should waste trawling through it...

Its not the whole section of society but the Coloured community !

"Society" isn't to blame. People especially these kin muppets are too easy to blame everyone else (as are some on here). They need to take a good hard long look at themselves!

Just been said on tv that they are looting/rioting as they have nothing to do! Nothing to do?! Read a book, educate yourselves, volunteer, play sport, visit family, educate your child you had when you were 13!!! FFS no one is to blame for this apart from yourself!!! It's a choice, you chose to act + behave like this.

Fed up of police searching you? Stop hanging around in gangs, stop petty drug misdemeanour's, stop acting all gangster and think it's cool to be in a gang, stop hanging around with people with criminal records, stop causing anti social behaviour..What? You don't want to?? Well accept the consequences of your choices. STOP BLAMING OTHERS

You do not get riots without a large disenchanted and disenfranchised population.

The only way to prevent further riots is to bring these people back into society.

Christ!! Hark at Mr ****ing politically correct... 🙄

These [s]people[/s] scum do not want to belong to society.

TandemJeremy - Member

The Southern Yeti - Member

Is there any attempt, on this thread, at an elightened discussion on what causes a whole section of society to feel so disenfranchised that they consider rioting to be acceptable? Or is it the same old Daily Mail knee jerk shite?

Guess what. I'm spouting same old reactionary rubbish.

FTFY.

A group who have basically opted out of "normal" society

lordy, do you really think that this has been a life choice. it's staggering just how removed from reality stw really is.

That's a heck of a fire in Croydon...

A group who have basically opted out of "normal" society

lordy, do you really think that this has been a life choice. it's staggering just how removed from reality stw really is.

Yes it is staggering that you can't understand this

London is being mugged on a grand scale it's that simple. Nothing to do with politics or any of that this is organised theft.

Although Croydon will probably benefit from a bit of a remodel.

You do not get riots without a large disenchanted and disenfranchised population.

Aren't the latest riots just small bunches of opportunist criminals rather than large groups of disenchanted citizens ??

The only way to prevent further riots is to bring these people back into society.

I think "they" already have a society, it's just not the one "we" choose to join, and I'm sure the opposite is true, "they" don't really want to join the mainstream society which "we" take for granted.

Seems like there are no answers just opposing opinions, both on line and on the streets, and it's easy to opinionate when the issues are hundreds of miles from your door.
I'd certainly feel a lot different if the riots and fires were down the end of my street rather than on a screen.......

BUt how did we reach this situation and how do we get back out of it?

IMO the two biggest factors are mass unemployment and stupid drugs laws.

However - ther eis no chance of any sensible debate with people onthis thread.

condemn them as much as you want - shout and cry to hang them from the rooftops. It does not change the facts - a large part of the population of this country feels disenfranchised and disenchanted.

I remember last time this happened - back in the eighties. The Scarman report looked into why it happened. We are creating the same conditions again. read an d think. Stop that knee jerking

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/bbc_parliament/3631579.stm

Anyway sis in law lives alone- the small sainsburys below her flat in brum is being looted right now (the one nearest central station). Anyone centralish?

FTFY.

So come on then Flashy; enlighten us with your scintillating insight into what causes sections of society to descend into violence and thuggery?

Must say I've seldom read as much shit posted on here as the last couple of days. The level of sheer ignorance and cluelessness about what actually happens in our society is staggering. But then, why should I be surprised that a load of naive narrow-minded bigoted Little Englanders are so woefully ignorant of social issues that affect people outside of their cosy little bubbles?

A lot of words being said here; very little actual intelligence and genuine knowledge.

We're all part of society; we're all part of the problem.

And remember, folks; [i]We're all in it [u]together[/u]. [/i]

Got a few friends in Brum trying to get out and home

What did the report say?

Lord Scarman said "complex political, social and economic factors" created a "disposition towards violent protest".

He found the disorders were not planned but a spontaneous outburst of built-up resentment sparked by particular incidents.

He found loss of confidence and mistrust in the police and their methods of policing. Liason arrangements between police, community and local authority had already collapsed before the disturbances.

At a time of national recession, unemployment in Brixton stood at 13% and 25.4% for ethnic minorities. Unemployment among black youths was estimated at 55%.

sopund familiar?

These are the actions of a few hundred people statistically not a large sector of the population.

TJ... where do you live in the UK? or where are you from? you clearly have no idea of what society is really like & what these types of kids are all about!!!

[img] http://bit.ly/qFhAuS [/img]

Girl arrested for rioting in the shop she works for. Disenfranchised or just stoopid?

A large part of the population may well feel alienated and excluded but it's only a small part of the population burning their neighbours house down and destroying their community.....

...how would the situation appear if instead of disenchanted youth it was a few hundred football fans rioting after a match ???

Violence is not an answer, either as a means of control or a means of protest 🙁

What you doing on here Fred? Thought you'd be out there projecting social justice on the rest of the community!

So come on then Flashy; enlighten us with your scintillating insight into what causes sections of society to descend into violence and thuggery?

it's staggering just how removed from reality stw really is.

Yes it is staggering that you can't understand this

It is staggering, with such unprecedented access to a wealth of information about all manner of aspects of our society, the level of sheer ignorance of what is actually happening in our nation.

I remember last time this happened - back in the eighties. The Scarman report looked into why it happened. We are creating the same conditions again. read an d think. Stop that knee jerking

this

timc - I live in edinburgh now - I lived about half a mile from the Mosside riots in the 80s

I suspect I have rather more idea than most of the folk ranting on here.

change the record Elfin, you post the same crap all the time, just saying that people post rubbish but never offering your own ideas as to solutions

DAVUID CAMEROOOOOON WILL BE BOARDING A PLANE TONIGHT TO COME HOME TO ENGLAND, just anounced on BBC.

So everythings will be ok then.

Ooh, look mummy, someone does not in any way like something I said!

I've posted my own ideas countless times on here. Have you not bin paying attention?

Have a read; you might learn something...

no, I largely ignore your posts because they ALWAYS SAY THE SAME THING
nothing

Have a read; you might learn something...

At a time of national recession, unemployment in Brixton stood at 13% and 25.4% for ethnic minorities. Unemployment among black youths was estimated at 55%.

sopund familiar?

All this is No excuse for what is going on right now and even then.
I have many coloured friends then and even now and they did not
agree what happened then and now.
To me all i see is the Lazy no good thieving Basxards you see in and around
the streets every day in London and thats a Fact.

A group who have basically opted out of "normal" society
lordy, do you really think that this has been a life choice. it's staggering just how removed from reality stw really is.

@trail monkey,

just looking at the stats for the area, high immigration, high single parent, low age at first birth rate, more likely to own a HD tv, a german car (if they have one at all), low income, young i.e. sub 40 population,

Do you regard the behaviour of those on the street as normal? no excuses, no bull5hit, Is looting normal behaviour?

no, I largely ignore your posts because they ALWAYS SAY THE SAME THING
nothing

You're actually wrong, but I forgive you.

Maybe it's just a bit too compulcated for you to understand.

X

But TJ, you're an educated person, living a comfortabe lifestyle with your own home and a new full-time job too look forward to, complete with ample leisure opportunities and access to all manner of luxuries.

I know it's feasible to put yourself in another mans shoes, but you really do need to walk a fair few miles in them to be able to know how they feel.

Observation, now matter how informed, is not experience.....

...not saying your opinion is not valid, but it's certainly not formed from the same life experiences of the criminal rioter.

I have many [b]coloured[/b] friends

Are you Michael J Fox? have you come from the 1970s?

Anyway...

I had a nice swim earlier, and no Binners, I din't need any armbands. How incredibly rude to suggest that I would. 😥

unreal. anyone who believes there is, in any way, justification for this rioting, are severalty deluded. ffs.

Lazy no good thieving Basxards you see in and around
the streets every day in London and thats a Fact

This may be true... but why are they like this? What causes this? Why weren't they doing it 5 years ago?

All important questions that might just make for a discussion...

Elfinsafety - Member
I have many coloured friends
Are you Michael J Fox? have you come from the 1970s?

Tttt**** 😳

Highest rates of youth unemployment are in the Welsh Valleys

Don't see them kicking off do we?

20.56 Victoria Ward in Peckham writes:

Just watching a group of teenagers ransack Iceland in Peckham. They're running in and out with armfuls of food and drink. Not a policeman in sight. Someone on the street is yelling "make sure you get Frebreeze".

😯

Zulu-Eleven - Member
Highest rates of youth unemployment are in the Welsh Valleys

Don't see them kicking off do we?

True regarding unemployment But they seem to fight each other from different villages

True regarding unemployment But they seem to fight each other from different villages

neilforrow - Member

unreal. anyone who believes there is, in any way, justification for this rioting, are severalty deluded. ffs.

I don't think anyone has said its justified. However here are reasons why its happening. riots do not just happen - it needs the conditions to be right and thats what needs to be addressed. Read Scarman

Highest rates of youth unemployment are in the Welsh Valleys

....not many sheep in London though 😉

i wish these were youth's worried about their future & place in society, but i doubt it, just scum out to cause trouble for the fun of it...

scum bags

The real tragedy here is that race relations between blacks and whites has just been put back another 20 years. It will be even harder for young black men to get jobs.

just spoke to my mate whos a di in warrington
he said that he attended a meeting including met police warning of dissorder this summer due to a lack of summer jobs available and the closing of youth facilities etc

Zulu-Eleven - Member

Hora - don't you realise?

Heavy handed policing causes riots

Well, yes they do. Just not these ones. What's your point caller?

atlaz - Member

Kimbers - it's not an excuse. Our youth club was closed when I was a kid (I'm from Hull so I think it counted as an urban area with significant deprivation and unemployment in the 80s). Nobody rioted as a result of it

Try and distinguish between "excuses" and "contributory factors".

he said that he attended a meeting including met police warning of dissorder this summer due to a lack of summer jobs available and the closing of youth facilities etc

fighting between villages has always happened. Gloucestershire, has Dog Pie, and bear and the FoD, as examples of inter community rivalry.

exactly im not condoning or excusing anyone

Just watching 'Watchmen'. They need to be deployed in London tonight...

I feel very sad for the one man band and small business that may not ever open again
in fact may be in debt for a very long time after this..

COBRA meeting called! What do you think the out come of that will be?