I am watching ITV now (1.40am) 'The Queen Remembered' in silence, without volume on, with my headphone on listening to some heavy bass progressive techno minimalist music whatever you like to call. E.g. the like of 'Into the Deep' by Soleeman, 'Somebody's Story' by Solomun etc.
This programme to remember the Queen, to me while listening to the music, feels like travelling through time and reminds me of those who described the flashback before death. This is how it feels exactly. The programme shows a lot of people from the past. Weird and spooky. (probably due to my music too)
For the anti-monarchies in the UK whether you like it or not you will Not live to see the change, assuming there was a change, at least Not within this (your) life time. The change will perhaps come during the reign of King George VII (assuming that is the title) and even then the monarchy needs to mess up royally or the WWIII makes them insignificant (the world restarts new again).
No point sowing the seed now coz you will just regret this life on the day of your flashback.
We are all "old" people on STW forum and I doubt our thinking or perspectives in life can be changed that easily, probably never at this late stage in life. Let the future generations whichever generations they can be to decide their own fate. Our time in this life is limited. Count yourself lucky if one day your flashback is a sweet one.
(back to listening to music now ... after nearly not enjoying music for at least 35 years but mobile phone died so the Samsung shop sold me a pair of Galaxy Buds Pro but told me they were free (actually included in the price £150 Ouch!) ... arrghhh ... so I started using them to listen to music. Surprise, surprise they are rather good - I feel "young" again)
It was sad when she died, just as it was sad when my neighbour died last year.
Yes we may be in an official period of mourning because that is what the state have declared but a couple of 30 years old with a kid on TV and the kid saying he is heartbroken is just Princess Diana all over again. People are just saying what they think they should be saying rather than what they actually feel.
The obvious down side with media frenzy is that everyone will be completely sick and tired of it by the time the funeral comes. I got to that point about an hour after her death...
I'm liking the different sound of 6music but that will wear off after a few more days.
This thread has taken what I think is an interesting turn
Obviously my opinion is just that, my opinion. I’m not in anyway trying to sway yours, I’m just a bit mystified as to why this isn’t a fair time to discuss the role of a non elected head of state, especially as we are seeing the great cost to the tax payer. And the answer because the nation is in mourning seems as weak as the pint of fosters I was served earlier!
I thought this post by Woodster was very good. I still however am very reluctant to say what I really think, anyone who knows me knows my views. I'll endeavour to hold my tongue for a while yet.
There’s a time and a place” as I posed it is exactly that. Is it such a radical idea to suggest waiting till after the funeral before outpouring how much you hated someone?
That’s not what is happening though. People are not saying they hate anyone, they are asking if the monarchy is necessary. It’s also okay to not like or be indifferent about somebody, them being dead should make no difference to that at all. It’s the blatant fakery that gets to me. Being dishonest and pretending to care is a much worse trait than just being honest. I’m not seeing any hatred for an individual on here.
No point sowing the seed now coz you will just regret this life on the day of your flashback.
I often read your posts and wonder why you bother to type the rubbish you do. Is it a comedy thing that I'm not getting?
This is the problem with being allowed to have a conversation about getting rid of the monarchy. The most appropriate time is now before a coronation. However that isn’t allowed as it’s official mourning time or shut down as disrespectful so we keep the same establishment ruling the country for another generation
There are a lot of people who are totally fed up with the blanket coverage of this.
The BBC has played right into the Tories hands, it's finished unfortunately. Broken, like the NHS, no longer fit for purpose, to be sold to the highest bidder.
As well as learning about SJP I'm also prepared to learn other things
Although polls have consistently shown that the vast majority of Britons back the monarchy – republicans have long accepted they had no chance of changing the system while the Queen was alive – support for the monarchy has been falling.
“Charles is a very different kettle of fish. If support was dropping anyway, it’s not going to go up,” said Smith. Polling ahead of the celebrations for the country’s first-ever platinum jubilee earlier this year suggested that 62% of Britons said they supported the monarchy. A decade earlier, however, the same polling company – YouGov – reported that figure was 11 points higher, at 73%. YouGov polling also revealed that almost a quarter – 22% – of people in the UK now support abolishing the monarchy, a pronounced increase from a decade earlier.
I did not know that number (nearly a quarter) was as high. Clearly there is a conversation to be had, about need or form or both.
[I said I was out and I still am, I'm intending to no longer be arguing or expressing particular opinions but interested in following the conversation and asking questions to inform myself]
chewkw
Free Member
I am watching ITV now
I can never work out if you’re posting from Uzbekistan or Eastbourne. For me the loss that everyone is discussing is the gap between:
A) The queen represented what 19th to 20th Century “British” looks like, a model of colonial elite
And
B) Harry Windsor, a closer representation of modern angry Britain with a mixed race family, self centred focus and a fractured set of relationships with most people outside of the immediate front door, aka Modern British.
This is the problem with being allowed to have a conversation about getting rid of the monarchy. The most appropriate time is now before a coronation.
I don't know why or what you think it will achieve but whatever; the coronation is likely a year away, how much time do you need?
However that isn’t allowed as it’s official mourning time or shut down as disrespectful so we keep the same establishment ruling the country for another generation
Nonsense. Of course it's allowed, you're discussing it right now. Who's stopping you? Who's shutting you down? Do you squeal "help help I'm being cancelled" every time someone disagrees with you? C'est la vie I'm afraid.
I did not know that number (nearly a quarter) was as high
Not nearly as high as the three quarters ok with the status quo. People don't always think through their answers either, look at the 52% who clearly didn't who when asked should the UK leave the EU said yes.
As for should the monarchy go, it's not going to happen on the death of a monarch unless planned in advance. If you really want it gone it'll need to be done mid reign so the incumbent abdicated or they've decided in advance the monarchy will end with the death of the monarch.
There actually be quite a bit of beuaracracy to sort to remove the monarchy from the state.
Is it such a radical idea to suggest waiting till after the funeral before outpouring how much you hated someone?
Where did that come from?
If you really want it gone it’ll need to be done mid reign so the incumbent abdicated or they’ve decided in advance the monarchy will end with the death of the monarch.
Conversely, not wanting to advocate to displace the Queen, because of her service and the personal attachment to her because of the shared history between her and us, was a perfectly respectful position to take. Seeing that when she came to the throne, it fitted the UK perfectly well, and allowing her to continue to serve right up to her death without arranging for the end of Monarchy was fitting for many, even if there was an argument that the time of Monarchy should really be behind us in the 21st Century. Now that she has sadly passed, this is exactly the time to begin a proper discussion about whether in this year we should keep the Monarchy in its current form, or should we reform or remove it to being the UK up to date. This is not 1952, and discussion about a new Monarch shouldn’t be treated as if it is. I was all for putting the issue to one side for a while, but the coverage of the accession of the King has made me very uneasy, it feels like programming and very anachronistic. To call it one sided would be an understatement.
we're republican cos we hate the queen 😕 😀
Of course it’s allowed, you’re discussing it right now. Who’s stopping you? Who’s shutting you down? Do you squeal “help help I’m being cancelled” every time someone disagrees with you?
Are news reports providing balance? Is anyone on telly or radio saying actually a lot of people couldn't care less?
This is not 1952, and discussion about a new Monarch new shouldn’t be treated as if it is.
This is a good point. The Queen, although beloved by many, was a relic of a different era. I don’t believe Charles will be modern enough to make any real change. The monarchy seem to bring with them a concept of Britain that is stuck in an era that no longer exists.
If we are to have a monarchy (an outdated concept in my opinion) I’d prefer William to take the reigns. Relatively young, somewhat more relatable and more likely to change things up. The concept and the reality are both entrenched in the past and need modernising.
Take a serious look at the pomp, ceremony, weird formalities, vast estates, regalia and really think if it needs to be a thing in the 21st century. In my opinion it needs to be consigned to history, move on, modernise. What that looks like under a monarchy, who knows, but I hope it’s a change from what’s come before. Seeing people bow and curtesy to others just seems ridiculous in a modern world.
I have been working in a shop over the weekend.
Normally any major news stories come up in conversation with customers.
Not 1 person has mentioned the Queen.
I think that people feel intimidated that they should be "in mourning" due to the output of the MSM, particularly the BBC and don't voice their indifferent feelings.
What this is going to be like in another 10 days, who knows? Why we should be so deferent to this bunch of tossers, god only knows.
Are news reports providing balance? Is anyone on telly or radio saying actually a lot of people couldn’t care less?
Should they be? Would it be well received, do you suppose?
Why we should be so deferent to this bunch of tossers, god only knows.
Who's being deferent? Again: there is a middle ground between forelock-tugging and dancing on their grave.
Is anyone on telly or radio saying actually a lot of people couldn’t care less?
There was an article on I think ITV News about this being a chance to modernise the monarchy and the royal family. Not exactly saying that many 'couldn't care less' but there is the beginning of debate. It isn't totally one sided (but yes, currently very skewed)
I’d prefer William to take the reigns.
😉
Wowza! More chips here than in Harry Ramsdens!
I for one am saddened by HM's passing.
I thought she set a shining example of dedication and service to us all.
RIP
There is an argument that the monarchy is a repository for illogical nationalist feelings and useful for it. Unchecked, where would that energy displayed by the mawkish and fawning masses go?
Would it be redirected towards creating a more fair and democratic society or would those feelings be instrumentalised by the Right to create an even more unequal, spiteful and nationalistic society?
I thought she set a shining example of dedication and service to us all.
Hmm. Do your job, don't cause trouble, toe the line, stiff upper lip, keep everything the same as it's always been.
Good example? Discuss.
There is an argument that the monarchy is a repository for illogical nationalist feelings and useful for it. Unchecked, where would that energy displayed by the mawkish and fawning masses go?
Very interesting point. Head of state not only for visiting dignitaries but also for the plebs.
There is an argument that the monarchy is a repository for illogical nationalist feelings and useful for it. Unchecked, where would that energy displayed by the mawkish and fawning masses go?
My hope would be that it would die out over time. I could be wrong, but I imagine support for a monarchy is mainly from older generations. Like any form of change there would be a period of turbulence and upheaval.
Your second point is a good one and rather worrying. Are the monarchy a barrier between us and nationalistic sentiment running rampant.
Are we all looking forward to watching the queen's final journey? Six solid hours.
Folk manage to watch whole stages of the TdF and that's about as exciting.
Hi Kelvin my exact thoughts I certainly did like the Queen but the whole issue with Harry & Meghan for me was one of final straws with this Family for me then all the palaces, Andrew, Camilla unfortunately a long list now. Now this coverage of the accession of the King is totally outdated and should not need to happen, how I hear my children talk about the royal family I would not be surprised If william never became king. The whole thing is so outdated we have food banks in the UK whilst paying for all this, I don't think they are needed Tourist's will still visit the buildings.
Folk manage to watch whole stages of the TdF and that’s about as exciting.
Nowhere near as exciting! Apart from when that person caused a megacrash trying to take a selfie. Wonder if that will happen today?
a merging of the two would be good. It's usually the mavericks into a break (maybe the York girls, Harry would have been nailed on) - let them get 15 minutes up the road, and then the hearse gradually ramps up the speed and catches them just as they cross the Forth Bridge.
Elsewhere. I have a friend who is a funeral director, he has a myriad of tales but one nightmare is a funeral car breaking down or running out of petrol (can happen, if a family stands looking at flowers too long for example that they can't refuel before getting to the next job)
I bet that car's been serviced, serviced again and then once more this morning.
Big day for the hearse driver. Slow and steady wins the race. Not a time to be putting the motor through its paces.
They should chuck the "Stone of Destiny" in the back of the hearse too. It'll save an extra journey for the coronation.
Not 1 person has mentioned the Queen.
I've been into a few shops since she passed away.
I've not mentioned it either but it doesn't mean I'm not a wee bit saddened. Just cos people don't mention it doesn't mean they don't give a toss.
Folk manage to watch whole stages of the TdF and that’s about as exciting.
Will anyone do a road gap over the procession though? That would be worth watching.
Hmm… not sure which thread to put this in…
Further unease about the Accession part of this (unlike some others, I don’t have any real problem with the official mourning side, apart from the cruelty of making retail staff listen to Robbie William’s “Angels” on a loop)… when the King goes on his tour of the nations, it looks like he’ll be taking the new PM with him in a joint getting their faces out there exercise. Worrying.
"My hope would be that it would die out over time. I could be wrong, but I imagine support for a monarchy is mainly from older generations. Like any form of change there would be a period of turbulence and upheaval."
Asking friend's who have kids in their late teens / early 20's their sprogs don't seem to give it much thought, much as myself at that age.
We all become the older generation eventually though... Thus my second point about the dangers of nationalism, I wouldn't have been as aware of that danger at a younger age, when if pushed I would probably have cleaved towards the notion that we could change society for the better by moving on from an antiquated monarchical system.
I also think the idea that the monarchy will gradually and inevitably dissolve is far from a certainty, the entire history of the monarchy has been a rocky ride and always open to question, criticism and existential threats.
The 50 something me thinks that something that has lasted nigh on a thousand years stands a fairly good chance of surviving a fair few centuries yet.
Should they be? Would it be well received, do you suppose?
It would by me
Who’s being deferent? Again: there is a middle ground between forelock-tugging and dancing on their grave.
I'm not dancing on anyone's grave.
However, putting up with this blanket of nonsense on our media is allowing the Royal family to be seen as something incredibly important and far superior to the rest of us. We have suspended parliament for another 2 weeks after weeks of a vacuum, while our economy is in taters, the far right government has granted billions of pounds of our money to prop up a failed energy market and there is a war in Europe, in which we are a major proxy.
It's a shit state of affairs and something needs to change.
King Charles III, is a man who is on record on wishing to be a tampon.
His brother was a close friend of an uber sex pest and his mother paid off his victim with millions of pounds. We were told he would be stepping back from his role and yet he is all over the media, yet again! His beloved mother, chose him to be the one to walk into her husbands funeral with. An absolute **** you UK.
But yes, lets all tell stories of Queenie and how she was nice to you when you have given her flowers.
I wasn't a royalist at the start of the thread but I am now
Wonder if they'll do it all in one go? It's a fair old journey, maybe a quick stop for sandwiches. Can't imagine the entire convoy piling into a drive-thru... do they even have drive-thru's in Scotland?
We all become the older generation eventually though… Thus my second point about the dangers of nationalism, I wouldn’t have been as aware of that danger at a younger age, when if pushed I would probably have cleaved towards the notion that we could change society for the better by moving on from an antiquated monarchical system.
I’d like to think that my generation and those below have a different set of core values to those that have come before. This is reflected in the stats somebody shared earlier. The percentage of those seeking change is slowly going up. That can only be a good thing in my eyes.
Should they be? Would it be well received, do you suppose?
It would by me
Me too!
I’ve got BBC news on (muted)until the cricket starts. Like the TDF it’s boring and I’m only watching it for the scenery
Hopefully they’ll pick Burger King as their drive-thru choice
Folk manage to watch whole stages of the TdF and that’s about as exciting.
Well, I'm certainly looking forward to the bunch sprint at the end.
