Ill accept the truce if the royalistss will stop all the pejorative name calling🤣
As a serious and non-confrontational question, what impact is any of this going to have on the country besides people’s sentiments? And how important are those?
For your first question I’d say none whatsoever. The second are only important on an individual level so again not very on any sort of scale.
lovely aerial shots across WGP to Slough in the background
As it happens I was on the long walk with Henry. Other end. Spoke with the police drone pilots who will be here for 10 days.
Greeted them with a “don’t see many of those around here!” Drones are banned with big yellow signs posted.
Never seen Windsor like it. Huge queues just to get to the end of the long walk. Few however made it the 2.4 miles to the copper horse, let alone the statue of the queen on a horse further in the park.
Ill accept the truce if the royalistss will stop all the pejorative name calling
I believe the name calling is a sign of being grown up.
I’d be happy to cease the back and forth and as i said earlier, look at and comment on the traditions and history without justifying them, but I guess that is impossible to uncouple for some.
Nice passive aggressive sneering there.
What traditions and history do you want to discuss exactly? We could go for how many of these "traditions" arent actually very old eg most of the state funeral stuff was rewritten by Victoria since she disliked the traditional stuff.
Edited as Cougar edited the bit I took issue with. See we can be grown ups!
I regret the last bit and edited. Apologies.
I stand by the rest though - there's a time and a place.
Do you really not understand why “The Queen, What a ****: The Documentary” might perhaps be considered slightly inappropriate the day after her death was announced?
A documentary that explores the future role of monarchy would be entirely appropriate.
Something that finds intelligent voices and offers a range of perspectives - for and against.
That looks at alternatives and how other countries handle constitutional checks and balances.
It would be topical, interesting and informative. And something you will not see on the BBC for reasons I have mentioned.
what is actually happening here? What’s to discuss?
a few posts above - the tradition and pageantry, for example. As I also said a few pages before, we live in a monarchy, like it or not, and we're going to have pageantry a-plenty. One can be interested in that without necessarily having to be vocally pro or anti.
Plus there is also an informative aspect still to be discussed such as when's the funeral and will supermarkets be shut. Which we can also do without having to argue.
look at and comment on the traditions and history without justifying them, but I guess that is impossible to uncouple for some.
The history is what's at the front of my mind in all this. Who was this person and why is she on telly wall to wall after her death?
I think the ‘There’s a time and a place’ is up there with ‘We’ll that’s how we’ve always done it’ as one of the most infuriating statements in life. Both get trotted out whenever people don’t want to deal with something. What better time to discuss the flaws of our current system than a time of change. I doubt any of the royal family frequent the STW chat forum so where’s the harm?
Nice passive aggressive sneering there.
Why? Both sides have fallen foul of it, me included.
What traditions and history do you want to discuss exactly?
Well for example, the accession council at St James Palace. Which has never been seen by anyone outside the membership of the council, and has then prompted me further to read about SJP, which I didn't know anything about previously.
YMMV.
This is genuinely a once in a lifetime experience
I'm curious to know what experience I am getting here that is once in a lifetime.
'what impact is any of this going to have on the country besides people’s sentiments?'
I think it can have a massive impact. Never heard the expression that the UK has never recovered from winning the second world war? Because the country hasn't - you can look at any metric - growth, productivity, it's been downhill ever since, and the country has a mawkish affection for Spitfires and Lancesters. I personally thing that the death of the queen breaks the thread holding the UK to that, and will allow the country to start to find a new place in the modern world.
Personally I'm a republican but have an admiration for the job she did, and certainly proved a point of decency in recent politics. It's the end of the era, so probably worth cancelling a few things for to remember. Your opinion may differ, but it's obvious some people on here struggle to see past the end of their nose.
Well for example, the accession council at St James Palace. Which has never been seen by anyone outside the membership of the council
Mildly interesting but given the fact it has never been seen before the chances of most of the rules having been made up on the spot are...
Plus it is pointless in terms of doing anything unlike say with electors of the holy Roman empire. Now that would be fun and interesting to watch. Would Charles get the vote or would they go for a wildcard.
and has then prompted me further to read about SJP, which I didn’t know anything about previously.
It does come up quite a lot not least with ambassadors to the UK being accredited by the Court of St James and most of the royals having lived there at some stage.
As I said, YMMV.
OK, I gave my opinion and others theirs. I'm out now.
certainly proved a point of decency
Allowing golden eagles and other birds of prey to be killed on the balmoral estate and not allowing the police to investigate these crimes properly?
Yes she had a sense of duty and made some decent speeches and her work in the war and aftermath was good for the country but her position means total detachment from reality and as the years went by she became more and more of an anachronism .
As for the pageantry? At best its bread and circuses and at worst it entrenches the uk class system and activly blocks any attempt to modernise our democracy.
Allowing golden eagles and other birds of prey to be killed on the balmoral estate and not allowing the police to investigate these crimes properly?
To be fair investigation into raptor persecution was also blocked at Sandringham. So there was consistency both sides of the border.
I personally thing that the death of the queen breaks the thread holding the UK to that, and will allow the country to start to find a new place in the modern world.
Best comment on the thread so far. I would love this to be true.
Did you see the video of Charles and his servant? Sums them up really.
Yes, I did. King Charles' facial expression made me laugh showing his human side. I doubt the "pen" assistant would be sent to the tower or "off with his head".
I mean if you are an assistant surely one of the role is to have attention to details, Yes?
The table is not large enough to have two large documents waiting to be signed, and the assistant should have noticed that in advance and should have moved the ink pot away.
Nahhh ... that's just normal human behaviour.
Two things for the critics:
1. This is just a human behaviour.
2. This is the formal occasion where there is an important document to be signed in front of the world, everyone gets nervous.
Nahhh … that’s just normal human behaviour.
It really isn’t. Moving them yourself, that’s normal human behaviour.
It really isn’t. Moving them yourself, that’s normal human behaviour.
It is especially if the person is paid to be an assistant. That is the assistant's job. i.e. attention to detail.
If I am a super rich person and hired someone to wipe my feet, I expect them to wipe my feet properly even when I can do it myself. That is because the person job is hired to do that job. If the person cannot do that job properly what's the use of hiring that person?
I think the ‘There’s a time and a place’ is up there with ‘We’ll that’s how we’ve always done it’ as one of the most infuriating statements in life.
Do you not understand the concept of timing in both comedy and politics? The nation is officially in mourning, millions are genuinely upset by the death of a much loved monarch, do you seriously believe that now is a good time to declare that the monarchy is shite and should be abolished?
Do you think it would be in tune with current public opinion? Or could there be a better time to make the case?
If the monarchy is to be abolished it is probably better to have a long political debate within the UK with a carefully thought out and publicly supported alternative.
And ideally when the current monarch dies a new constitutional pre-agreed protocol kicks in and the former UK seamlessly becomes a republic. Hopefully imo a people's republic, although highly unlikely as no doubt the bourgeoisie will still maintain a firm grip on power. Which probably make the whole transition fairly meaningless, although it will undoubtedly satisfy middle-class "radicals".
Abolishing the monarchy whilst there is a reigning king is a recipe for civil conflict and political upheaval. Best to declare the job redundant long before Charles the Third's death so everyone has plenty of time to get used to the idea.
I’m curious to know what experience I am getting here that is once in a lifetime.
A couple of weeks national mourning.
Do you not understand the concept of timing in both comedy and politics?
Yes, but I think it’s utter bollocks.
do you seriously believe that now is a good time to declare that the monarchy is shite and should be abolished?
On the chat part of a MTB forum, yes, yes I do.
Abolishing the monarchy whilst there is a reigning king is a recipe for civil conflict and political upheaval.
What exactly do you think is happening in this country now? That’s right, political instability and the spectre of civil unrest looming due to a cost of living crisis.
It really isn’t. Moving them yourself, that’s normal human behaviour.
Not if you're the King. Have you not seen Coming To America?
Is it time for a group hug yet?
If I were King I'd be crowned-up and giving it large. I think Charles, sorry, King Charles III is showing admirable restraint.
I’m curious to know what experience I am getting here that is once in a lifetime.
A couple of weeks
national mourningshyte TV and radio, should you choose to engage.
The biggest bonus so far was that Radio6 didn't have the usual dance music Friday. Lots of indie and folkie music instead
Today we had many hours of Radcliffe then Maconie
Win !!!
The radio is the worst thing for me, depressing music, presenters talking as if they are therapists, and the stories about how i saw the Queen drive past in a rolls royce when i was 5 are getting a bit OTT.
I know it's a mourning period, but i do much prefer the celebration of a life, it just feels like it's pulling down the mood of the whole country at a time when there's enough sadness and depression.
Ffs just put the radio on and it's Dido again
I know it’s a mourning period, but i do much prefer the celebration of a life,
A few mates of mine have organised a celebration of sorts in the Galloway forest tnight with a couple of small marquees/decks and generators, prob not the sort of celebration that many would approve of though
Sounds great!
Yeah I’m grumpy and jealous as ****. As I can’t go due to my spms they dropped me off a wee goodie bag so I don’t feel left out. Not the same but I appreciate the thought.
Abolishing the monarchy whilst there is a reigning king is a recipe for civil conflict and political upheaval.
What exactly do you think is happening in this country now? That’s right, political instability and the spectre of civil unrest looming due to a cost of living crisis.
And you think abolishing the monarchy would make a difference? 😂
If the monarchy was abolished tomorrow it would not make one iota of difference to millions of working people, they wouldn't be any more "wealthier" or "freer", it wouldn't in any way change their lives.
The Labour Party, let alone the Tories, can't even commit themselves to abolishing that other great relic from the feudal days the House of Lords.
Abolishing the House of Lords could actually have real tangible benefits for ordinary people as it could make our political process more democratic, more representative, and more responsive, to the needs of the people.
You could also push power, wealth and opportunity away from Whitehall. A federal system to devolve powers – including through regional investment banks and control over regional industrial strategy. Abolish the House of Lords – replace it with an elected chamber of regions and nations.**
But for many people abolishition of the monarchy has nothing to do with improving the lives of ordinary people, it's just silly vindictive bollocks. Politics is a game to them, it's not about real change.
** Guess who said that.
And you think abolishing the monarchy would make a difference?
So what purpose does it serve then? It would free up some land, tidy up my news feed and make for more diverse coins and stamps 😀
You’ve killed your own arguments in your post by basically admitting the monarchy is completely pointless.
I didn’t mention that it would make a difference, you did. You claimed there would be civil unrest and political instability. We’ve already got that!
All the “This is not the time” stuff… when it comes to the Queen, I agree. She has just died. Positive accounts of her service, life, and the historical context is exactly what should be occurring right now. When it comes to the King… this is exactly the time to begin to address whether we want this man as head of state, and if so if we should reframe his powers, and the pomp and cost that will surround him. The debate should start right now. Quietly accepting his accession with no dissent or discussion at all being made public feels very off to me.
Completely agree Kelvin.
If the monarchy was abolished tomorrow it would not make one iota of difference to millions of working people, they wouldn’t be any more “wealthier” or “freer”, it wouldn’t in any way change their lives
Indeed.
The annual cost of the royal family is less than half of the weekly Brexit dividend that was promised on that big bus a few years ago.
I'm yet to see the positive impact of that financial windfall but I'm sure it's due any day soon.
Ergo, the windfall from abolishing the monarchy will be like a fart in the wind
I personally thing that the death of the queen breaks the thread holding the UK to that, and will allow the country to start to find a new place in the modern world.
Yup, that's pretty much what I said somewhere around the beginning of this thread.
I stand by the rest though – there’s a time and a place.
So when would that be, then? When it's a waste of time, or now?
There's a massive amount of cognitive dissonance on this thread - people calling for us to "respect the dead" and not criticise the monarchy, while completely ignoring the fact that the only reason we're discussing the death of a 96 year old woman most of us have never met is the fact that she was the queen.
I think the UK is fairly unique in that the monarchy itself doesn’t have much power
The monarch still has and uses huge powers. They can have laws changed to suit themselves. Charles has done this as PoW to protect his financial interests. The monarch has the power to sack the government and rule by decree if they want to. All this going to see the monarch to be invited to form a government is because of the powers they have, not just theatre.
It is the power they still have in our alleged democracy that is my biggest objection to the institution
But for many people abolishition of the monarchy has nothing to do with improving the lives of ordinary people, it’s just silly vindictive bollock
Ah the classic politics of envy drivel. Bet its a first for you to spewing it out rather than being on the receiving end of it.
It is the power they still have in our alleged democracy that is my biggest objection to the institution
There is some superb Schrodinger's monarchy going on at the moment. On the one hand she was this amazing leader who solved all but on the other hand the monarchy has no power so we shouldnt worry our little heads about it.
