[Closed] this here Police sending threatening letters to innocent protestors

The [s]police[/s] met haven't exactly covered themselves in glory over the last year or so. Fair enough sending the letters to those convicted of public order offences, but not otherwise. Effectively they're just saying 'you think you got away with it last time, but we're still watching you'.
And as for threatening to use baton rounds on school kids...people have a right to protest, peacefully. Threatening violence before the event isn't acceptable from either 'side'.

It seems to me that the police are simply setting out what will happen if they try and break off and start smashing shops etc.

The police last time allowed the students to run riot, and basically they are now telling them that if you try it again you'll get f*cked.

and its about time they did.
Peaceful protest no one has a problem with, attacking property, the police etc, then its time the police rseponded and gave them a kicking they wont forget.

as for people who havent got convictions, they got let off last time, hopefully the CPS and Police will do a better job next time and hopefully the students wont allow their march to be overtaken by activists looking for a fight.

Its a clear attempt to intimidate people not to attend and is bang out of order.
it will backfire in two ways
1) that its been shown that they do keep records on people not even charged and 2) that more people will attend as a result.

as for people who havent got convictions, they got let off last time

or very possibly were innocent in the first place, and so were found not guilty. But **** it, guilt by association, kettle the lot of them. 🙄

If you work for the police these days your real employer is whichever political party is in office.

This opinion is not intended to denigrate the commitment of PC's across the country, rather to acknowledge that Senior Police Officers have become pawns in a political game that exists to serve politicians not us.

It's not intimidation, its just setting out what the consequences of illegal activity are.

Of course it is intended to intimidate. thats the whole aim of it.

"as for people who haven't got convictions, they got let off last time, hopefully the CPS and Police will do a better job next time" eh ?

The people who haven't got convictions did not get let off there was no evidence they had done any wrong. Hopefully the police will do a better job and not arrest people without evidence and will not arrest for political reasons rather than public order reasons .

Seems perfectly reasonable to me considering the amount of mindless violence/rioting we've seen before.
A letter reminding people not to do illegal stuff shouldn't be a big issue for those not intending to break the law.

Ok, I appreciate the police don't always play it by the book either (sadly have personal experience of this), but considering the 'cost' of previous' protests, any way to get them brought down seems to make sense.

Not having a conviction does not mean you are innocent.
Just as I have been successfully prosecuted for something a traffic offence I was not guilty, I was also not prosecuted despite admitting to doing 115mph while undertaking (I was then chased a tad over 10 miles without realising - was on a motorbike).

It's not intimidation, its just setting out what the consequences of illegal activity are.

I was under the impression we had things called 'laws' which do that. I didn't realise we individually threatened people who haven't been convicted of anything.

It's not intimidation, its just setting out what the consequences of illegal activity are.

Haha, course it's not. Neither was the press release about baton rounds was it? Met are being told what to do by Whitehall, and the farce continues unabated. Funnily enough all this ridiculous posturing is creating a generation of politically active students who are using a bit of guile and some direct action to make themselves heard. Is this the big society kicking in or the unintentional consequence of a clumsy attempt to intimidate?

"A letter reminding people not to do illegal stuff shouldn't be a big issue for those not intending to break the law."

The letter states "Do not stand and watch it may not be safe to do so" I'm not really sure standing and watching even a violent protest is illegal.

Though last year the Met did threaten to arrest any reporters who remained to film one of their incidents .

crankboy - Member
The letter states "Do not stand and watch it may not be safe to do so" I'm not really sure standing and watching even a violent protest is illegal.

Having read the whole letter, I'm still failing to see what the problem is. It actually reminds me of those old TV adverts about failing to pay your TV license, or some of those driving ones we used to get - no more than a general warning to try to stay on the right side of the law.

In every single briefing I have been involved in over the last 10 years or so, the commander of the event has always emphasised to all officers that it is peoples right to have a peaceful protest, and we are present to make sure those people can demonstrate and march unhindered
I think you will find that most officers agree with this principle, and have no problem at all with people exercising their right to demonstrate , after all a lot of police officers will have the same views as a lot of protesters
What we are against is the rent a mob, who attach themselves to parades, and cause mayhem and violence, these people are only interested in causing as many problems as possible for the state as a whole

What we are against is the rent a mob, who attach themselves to parades, and cause mayhem and violence, these people are only interested in causing as many problems as possible for the state as a whole

Is that what they told you? Wake up. There's no such thing as 'rent a mob'. No-one pays anarchists to turn up and start trouble. They do it because they like it. In fact the only ones getting paid are your undercover mates who are fully involved in agitation and who the cynics might say are sometimes key in ensuring things go off with a bang.

And whilst we're on the subject, do you honestly think everyone who gets involved in disorder is a member of the black block? Are they bollocks! Half of them are ordinary people who get caught up in the moment usually after being kettled for hours despite having done nothing wrong.

yossarian - Member
Half of them are ordinary people who get caught up in the moment usually after being kettled for hours despite having done nothing wrong.

Also This here Police sending threatening letters to innocent motorcyclists

Police say they can demand riders admit to an alleged offence, then decide what offence.
They have been accused of abusing the law with the tactic, used against a number of motorcyclists.
MCN revealed how riders had received police letters saying they were suspected of an offence but withholding details of the allegation. The letters said they must admit who was riding at the time.
Now police have admitted they sent the letters before deciding what offence to accuse the riders of.
The letters cite Section 172 of the Road Traffic Act, which makes it an offence carrying six points and a £1000 fine not to identify the rider. Police routinely use it to find out who was driving or riding a vehicle caught by speed camera.
But the requirement to tell the police only applies when the rider is ‘alleged to be guilty of an offence’.
Northumbria’s Sergeant Dave Clement admitted there were no specific allegations against riders in this case. 
“I would imagine the investigation needs to take place before we determine exactly what offences,” he said.
He said the force had acted within the law. “The riders and drivers of these vehicles are under investigation so we need their details.”
But road traffic solicitor Robert Dobson said: “They cannot simply write to a registered vehicle keeper asking for the details of the driver when they have not identified the offence of which that driver is allegedly guilty.
“I would say it’s an abuse of the legislation, which wasn’t drafted for this purpose.
“It’s a pure and simple fishing exercise.”
The letters were sent to nine riders who took part in motorway slow-rides organised by the Motor Cycle Action Group over planned EU measures to prevent bike modifying.

Is that really all you've got to be outraged about?

Police sending letters to people who have previously been arrested on suspicion of committing a public order offence, to remind them of the law.

Can I just remind you of the following words:

"I got caught up in the spirit of the moment. I did not realise that it was the Cenotaph and if I had, I certainly would not have done what I did"

Now, if the letters serve to remind a few people people not to "get caught up in the moment" is it [i]really[/i] such a terrible thing.

Now, if the police were arresting people in order to prevent a breach of the peace, then you might have a point, but, really, sending a letter? Get a grip 🙄

What we are against is the rent a mob, who attach themselves to parades, and cause mayhem and violence, these people are only interested in causing as many problems as possible for the state as a whole

Then don't allow thugs to don police uniforms and charge people exercising their democratic right to protest with horses, 'kettle' people for no good reason and generally act outside of the Law, then.

Quite simple really.

In every single briefing I have been involved in over the last 10 years or so, the commander of the event has always emphasised to all officers that it is peoples right to have a peaceful protest, and we are present to make sure those people can demonstrate and march unhindered

So why don't they then?

It is not just the letters though is it, there is also the threat of baton rounds being used. police might as well go the whole hog and declare they will be using live rounds.

the government and the met were caught with their trousers down last time May looked less than capable cameron and borris took several days to comeback from their hols and the feral right in this country were outraged by the inefectiveness of those they voted for
the batton rounds, the letters are just a bit of desperate PR from a weak government who are doing a very good job at alienating their core supporters

Yossarian, you best heed the letter, you wouldn't want to lose your one eye.

Is that what they told you? Wake up. There's no such thing as 'rent a mob'. No-one pays anarchists to turn up and start trouble. They do it because they like it. In fact the only ones getting paid are your undercover mates who are fully involved in agitation and who the cynics might say are sometimes key in ensuring things go off with a bang.

Oh, thats ok then.So it's undercover police who are causing all the trouble, thanks for clearing that up, pass the tinfoil.

Actually the Government pays the anarchists, its called benefits.
And wake up, you need to realise these people just look to latch on to any demonstration and then break off with their own agenda.
If the demonstrations turn in to a typical Saturday night in Leeds I'd expect the police to be very heavy handed.

What we are against is the rent a mob, who attach themselves to parades, and cause mayhem and violence, these people are only interested in causing as many problems as possible for the state as a whole

I would write them a letter, that should put a stop to their nonsense.

BTW they're not called parades, they're called marches or demonstrations - have you actually policed one ?

Unless of course you've policed Easter/Carnival/Military parades in which the rent a mob turned up causing "mayhem and violence", in which case, please accept my apologies.

Oh, thats ok then.So it's undercover police who are causing all the trouble, thanks for clearing that up, pass the tinfoil.

Well its happened many times - read up on Mark Kennedy and Drax for example and there are many other instances.

its not all the trouble it its clearly happened. some very disruptive stuff would not have happened without the shit stirring from Mark Kennedy and the like

I'm scratching my head here. What element of the letter is threatening or unreasonable?

Oh Christ. Yorkshire Tory Boy's arrived, clutching his Daily Mail to his appalled and outraged breast. Hide.

I think the phrase your looking for in your achingly simple little mind is

"If you've done nothing wrong, then there's no reason to be .....blah blah, blah..... you fill in the rest

What part is unreasonable?

A peaceful protest speaks volumes. A violent protest is largely an own-goal.

Go on..... say it!

I like to let the police get on with doing their job.

I'd hate it if a copper came up to me and tried to tell me how to deploy an SMS package.

It doesn't say that watching is illegal, it says it "may not be safe", which seems like common sense to me.

Where's the letter from the Met about bicycle helmets going to arrive? 😀

A peaceful protest speaks volumes. A violent protest is largely an own-goal.

So since, unsurprisingly, most "protests" are protesting against government policies, the government of the day must hope and pray that a protest turns violent, or at the very least, that it is reported as having been violent.

Guardian in Daily Mail style Journalism.

Shock and try to create fury so people will buy and read more 🙄

So since, unsurprisingly, most "protests" are protesting against government policies, the government of the day must hope and pray that a protest turns violent, or at the very least, that it is reported as having been violent.

Or maybe they are trying to avoid anyone getting hurt. Especially when pathetic young men drop fire extinguishers down onto someone just doing their job.

Must be bloody awful being in the Police....but then you'll get 40yr old Guardian readers who will still refer to the Police as 'the Feds' as they tut about education whilst casually keeping crime going smoking weed and other hallucinogenic drugs...

You forgot to shoe-horn illegal immigrants and single mother dole scroungers into your sweeeping generalisation, blame-fest. Don't be lazy. Has Peter Hitchens taught you nothing?

I suspect that a number of people on this thread have Nazi tendencies.

The article simply feeds the paranoia of those who blame others for everything. Without accepting responsibility.

Surrounded By Zulus- is that a debating style you used in the debating class at Uni?

Hora - Are you using some kind of random Daily Mail Quote Generator?

We all know that within the Guardian you read there is a Daily Mail and within the Daily Mail is Mein Kampf 😯

The article simply feeds the paranoia of those who blame others for everything. Without accepting responsibility.

Any news on your mtb forks?

IanMunro, it wasn't me it was those facist rocks and racist earth throwing themselves at us with glee and gusto. Sadly brother Lyrik fell down injured and we had to carry him back from the facist rocks.

(At no point had my own hands anything to do with it)

Especially when pathetic young men drop fire extinguishers down onto someone just doing their job.

Interesting use of a plural.

No its my schooling.

What's it like being you? What goes on in your head?

Have you ever watched Being John Malcovich? We could open your head up as a theme park. Children could be scared into submission by parents

"Any more of that carry on and you're going for 10 minutes in Hora's head! If you're particularly unlucky you could get caught up in one of his Neo-Fascist flights of Eugenics fantasy""

"Oh dear God No! Sorry dad! Not that!!! I really will be good from now on! Sorry! Sorry!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!"

Right thats my MTV-generation attention span gone.

so you go to a protest get arrested but are released without charge (because you did nothing wrong) then just before another protest you get a letter saying "we've got our eye on you. If you go to the protest you may get hurt" I'd say that's pretty threatening and intimidating yeah.

Donk:

have been sent to anyone arrested with previous public disorder offences even if they were later cleared or charges were dropped.

but you are assuming all of those who received the letter were released without charge.

Without knowing the facts (and looking atthe article) maybe the Guardian Journo didn't bother to ask for figures- maybe a sizeable majority of those who received the letters were arrested and charged with public offences or are awaiting trial on these?

Maybe you are reading too much into what is a very short inflammatory and potentially misleading article. Lazy Journalism anyone?

On a non-forum note. In my first job my MD cautioned me about making assumptions based on limited information 'always find out more before making a decision on something'.

You pick up any newspaper and the angles of the majority of the stories can be shocking. Rather than straight forward reporting of the facts there seems to be a twist to 'sex up' an event. No newspaper is free from this. The media so far has blamed everyone for the M5 crash without actually reporting what has happened and waiting for the Police (yeah them Feds again) releasing the findings of the investigation.

so you go to a protest get arrested but are released without charge (because you did nothing wrong)

the two things don't necessarily go together though do they 🙄

Frankly, I hope the police do use Baton rounds!

I'll be the guy on the corner with a big bag of Duracell batteries 😈

even if they were later cleared or charges were dropped.

the two things don't necessarily go together though do they

and what do you intend to do with a bag of batteries?

I'll be the guy on the corner with a big bag of Duracell batteries

I'm sure that's tongue in cheek, but if not then hopefully you'll be one of the ones getting letters next time. At the very least.

but you are assuming all of those who received the letter were released without charge

It doesn't matter if all-but-one of those who received a letter were convicted. That one person has a right to attend peaceful protest unmolested. For that matter, those who were convicted and have served their allotted sentence also deserve that privilege. This is how justice [i]should[/i] operate....

These fellas have been stopped/served their 'time' - should they receive letters?

http://www.thisisgloucestershire.co.uk/Kerb-crawlers-beware-Gloucestershire-police-send/story-13598413-detail/story.html

The letter was sent to people who the police knew were at the last protest (through them having been arrested on the day las time)
It is advising them of what will happen if the demonstration turns in to a riot and people start breaking the law (again) Basically the police wont sit back and let it happen like last time.

Which seems fair enough.

Seems the police are illiterate anyway - you conclude a letter to a non-specific addressee "yours faithfully"...

Don't really recall the Guardianista's being up in arms over football hooligans being banned from international travel, despite having "served their time"

http://www.birminghammail.net/news/top-stories/2010/06/10/known-football-hooligans-arrested-in-world-cup-crackdown-97319-26622819/

Its proactive Policing. Yes it can be seen as robust however would you prefer a reminder to be good or alot of people getting hurt due to a violent minority?

Would you like to go to a peaceful demonstration and a minority kick off/antagonise the Police?

How many potential protesters are put off by images of the previous demonstrations?

Would we be looking at an awesome turnout which would make people stop and think '**** thats alot of people who don't like what is happening on the topic'.

The minority ruin it for the rest and lets face it - if your kicking off you get arrested don't you. Why would you be innocent stood right at the front as kicks and fights are happening? You get out of the way.

They are hardly bloody innocent the recipients. Bleating bloody idiots.

Basically the police wont sit back and let it happen like last time.

Which seems fair enough.

Innocent until proven guilty. It's not such a difficult concept to grasp. Or maybe it is...

I disagree damn a post got in between the one I was disagreeing with.

But yes agree innocent until proven guilty, however remember a lot of protesters were arrested and charged, its just that they decided not to pursue the case.
which dosent make you innocent.
It reminds me of a bike thief arrested with about five bikes in his shed all being sold on ebay, and stolen from the local area.
He wasnt charged with the crime of burglary or handling stolen goods as the punishment for the two is worthless in the court.
he was charge for posession of Class A.
That makes him innocent of burglary and handling stolen goods.

Its a great judicial system isnt it.

anyone got the wrongful arrest figures for any police force in this country?

Innocent until proven guilty

You don't get arrested for standing still/not acting aggressively though do you. I've been in a demonstration in London- only a minority kicked off whilst everyone else stood WELL back. I saw people pulled away by Police and they sure weren't the well behaved ones.

I disagree

Which bit? If it's the former, might I suggest you move somewhere more aligned with your views?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-15646057

hora - Member

Innocent until proven guilty

You don't get arrested for standing still/not acting aggressively though do you.

Many people have been.

You don't get arrested for standing still/not acting aggressively though do you

So if alot of people came into your place of work and refused to leave leading to you losing money what would be your response?

They'd say 'we are staging a sit in'. You'd say you are blocking my business from making money. I imagine F&M sent home alot of their hourly-paid staff that day.

On a wider scale. What I don't understand is why don't you all relocate to Russian/the socialist paradise if England is too much of a Police state? 😆

Oh the irony.

Frankly, I hope the police do use Baton rounds!

I'll be the guy on the corner with a big bag of Duracell batteries

Oh dear. More wibbling from the resident violent fantasist. 🙄

What are you angry about, Labby? What are you really [i]angry[/i] about?

Was it the bigger boys at school? Is it all their fault?

So if alot of people came into your place of work and refused to leave leading to you losing money what would be your response?

Besides that's another issue, you said

You don't get arrested for standing still/not acting aggressively though do you

Some people understand the issues involved with civil rights, unfortunately many more don't.

hora - Member

On a wider scale. What I don't understand is why don't you all relocate to Russian/the socialist paradise if England is too much of a Police state?

Oh the irony.

What's ironic?

rain on yourwedding day?

Not really angry Elfin - just hoping against hope that one of our resident wolfie smith left wing bleeding hearts might catch a D cell to the knapper and get some sense knocked into him 😉

Here's hopin, eh!

DOnk - nope, thats just unlucky 😀

I dont think people are quite remembering how violent the last "protest" was.
http://www.****/news/article-1370053/TUC-anti-spending-cuts-protest-200-arrested-500k-march-cut.html
just look at some of the pictures.
I dont read the daily mail so dont start the usual rubbish, just look at the pictures.
It was mental last time and I hope the police dont allow it to happen again.
I mean I hope the peaceful protesters also dont allow this to happen again.

Not really angry Elfin

Yeah right. You keep telling yourself that, maybe one day you'll believe it.

Truth be told though, although you constantly fantasise about violence, you probably never actually get involved in any. Have you ever bin in a proper fight/extreme violent situation?

Sancho those won't be the peaceful protesters that were arrested. Those will be undercover Police operatives that staged events.

When I worked in central London and Police first did the 'unjust kettling'.

I was trapped in work for hours because of the violent rioting. The Police got us out and over the hours that followed the rioters were penned in and kettled. I ****ing thought justice has been done. Funny as they'd done their days protesting and now wanted to go home to their tea but now it was them inconvenienced.

BTW- innocents caught in that particular kettling? No, the Police told us there was a breakaway violent section that had smashed up Topshop/Regents st etc and they'd been caught/contained. So the media falsely reported that bit.

The Police that got us out looked scared, exhausted and shot.

just look at some of the pictures.

Funny, always the right whingers who lose the mask of civility and wish violence against those they disagree with.

Basic lack of intelligence or a realisation that you can't win a rational debate? 😉

Elfin - yep!

Like the time I shot a man, in Reno, just to watch him die...

I'm working class Rusty.

I didn't blame Thatcher for my childhood and I don't blame the Bankers for my adult life.

I control and affect my under destiny.