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so you go to a protest get arrested but are released without charge (because you did nothing wrong) then just before another protest you get a letter saying "we've got our eye on you. If you go to the protest you may get hurt" I'd say that's pretty threatening and intimidating yeah.
Donk:
have been sent to anyone arrested with previous public disorder offences even if they were later cleared or charges were dropped.
but you are assuming all of those who received the letter were released without charge.
Without knowing the facts (and looking atthe article) maybe the Guardian Journo didn't bother to ask for figures- maybe a sizeable majority of those who received the letters were arrested and charged with public offences or are awaiting trial on these?
Maybe you are reading too much into what is a very short inflammatory and potentially misleading article. Lazy Journalism anyone?
On a non-forum note. In my first job my MD cautioned me about making assumptions based on limited information 'always find out more before making a decision on something'.
You pick up any newspaper and the angles of the majority of the stories can be shocking. Rather than straight forward reporting of the facts there seems to be a twist to 'sex up' an event. No newspaper is free from this. The media so far has blamed everyone for the M5 crash without actually reporting what has happened and waiting for the Police (yeah them Feds again) releasing the findings of the investigation.
so you go to a protest get arrested but are released without charge (because you did nothing wrong)
the two things don't necessarily go together though do they 🙄
Frankly, I hope the police do use Baton rounds!
I'll be the guy on the corner with a big bag of Duracell batteries 😈
so they've done nothing wrong then. even if the arresting officer reckons they're dodgy characters in the eyes of the law they are innocent.even if they were later cleared or charges were dropped.
even if they did something wrong but there's no evidence they're still innocent. It's a thing we have in this country.the two things don't necessarily go together though do they
and what do you intend to do with a bag of batteries?
I'll be the guy on the corner with a big bag of Duracell batteries
I'm sure that's tongue in cheek, but if not then hopefully you'll be one of the ones getting letters next time. At the very least.
but you are assuming all of those who received the letter were released without charge
It doesn't matter if all-but-one of those who received a letter were convicted. That one person has a right to attend peaceful protest unmolested. For that matter, those who were convicted and have served their allotted sentence also deserve that privilege. This is how justice [i]should[/i] operate....
These fellas have been stopped/served their 'time' - should they receive letters?
The letter was sent to people who the police knew were at the last protest (through them having been arrested on the day las time)
It is advising them of what will happen if the demonstration turns in to a riot and people start breaking the law (again) Basically the police wont sit back and let it happen like last time.
Which seems fair enough.
Seems the police are illiterate anyway - you conclude a letter to a non-specific addressee "yours faithfully"...
Don't really recall the Guardianista's being up in arms over football hooligans being banned from international travel, despite having "served their time"
Its proactive Policing. Yes it can be seen as robust however would you prefer a reminder to be good or alot of people getting hurt due to a violent minority?
Would you like to go to a peaceful demonstration and a minority kick off/antagonise the Police?
How many potential protesters are put off by images of the previous demonstrations?
Would we be looking at an awesome turnout which would make people stop and think '**** thats alot of people who don't like what is happening on the topic'.
The minority ruin it for the rest and lets face it - if your kicking off you get arrested don't you. Why would you be innocent stood right at the front as kicks and fights are happening? You get out of the way.
They are hardly bloody innocent the recipients. Bleating bloody idiots.
no, police publicly saying "we will be robustly policing this demo with a zero tolerance towards aggression" or other flowery **** gets the message across. Writing to people personally is intimidation.Basically the police wont sit back and let it happen like last time.Which seems fair enough.
Innocent until proven guilty. It's not such a difficult concept to grasp. Or maybe it is...
I disagree damn a post got in between the one I was disagreeing with.
But yes agree innocent until proven guilty, however remember a lot of protesters were arrested and charged, its just that they decided not to pursue the case.
which dosent make you innocent.
It reminds me of a bike thief arrested with about five bikes in his shed all being sold on ebay, and stolen from the local area.
He wasnt charged with the crime of burglary or handling stolen goods as the punishment for the two is worthless in the court.
he was charge for posession of Class A.
That makes him innocent of burglary and handling stolen goods.
Its a great judicial system isnt it.
anyone got the wrongful arrest figures for any police force in this country?
Innocent until proven guilty
You don't get arrested for standing still/not acting aggressively though do you. I've been in a demonstration in London- only a minority kicked off whilst everyone else stood WELL back. I saw people pulled away by Police and they sure weren't the well behaved ones.
I disagree
Which bit? If it's the former, might I suggest you move somewhere more aligned with your views?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-15646057
hora - MemberInnocent until proven guilty
You don't get arrested for standing still/not acting aggressively though do you.
Many people have been.
I believe all the peaceful protesters at the sit in in fortnum and masons got arrested, 109 of whom had charges dropped. Yes it was kicking off outside but not inside. Police said "there's trouble outside why don't you leave peacefully out the back", OK said peaceful protestors, line of coppers and police vans waiting for them. Nice.You don't get arrested for standing still/not acting aggressively though do you
So if alot of people came into your place of work and refused to leave leading to you losing money what would be your response?
They'd say 'we are staging a sit in'. You'd say you are blocking my business from making money. I imagine F&M sent home alot of their hourly-paid staff that day.
On a wider scale. What I don't understand is why don't you all relocate to Russian/the socialist paradise if England is too much of a Police state? 😆
Oh the irony.
Frankly, I hope the police do use Baton rounds!I'll be the guy on the corner with a big bag of Duracell batteries
Oh dear. More wibbling from the resident violent fantasist. 🙄
What are you angry about, Labby? What are you really [i]angry[/i] about?
Was it the bigger boys at school? Is it all their fault?
I'd have a think about all the tax I'd been avoiding paying.So if alot of people came into your place of work and refused to leave leading to you losing money what would be your response?
Besides that's another issue, you said
I merely pointed out an example where you do.You don't get arrested for standing still/not acting aggressively though do you
Some people understand the issues involved with civil rights, unfortunately many more don't.
hora - MemberOn a wider scale. What I don't understand is why don't you all relocate to Russian/the socialist paradise if England is too much of a Police state?
Oh the irony.
What's ironic?
rain on yourwedding day?
Not really angry Elfin - just hoping against hope that one of our resident wolfie smith left wing bleeding hearts might catch a D cell to the knapper and get some sense knocked into him 😉
Here's hopin, eh!
DOnk - nope, thats just unlucky 😀
I dont think people are quite remembering how violent the last "protest" was.
http://www.****/news/article-1370053/TUC-anti-spending-cuts-protest-200-arrested-500k-march-cut.html
just look at some of the pictures.
I dont read the daily mail so dont start the usual rubbish, just look at the pictures.
It was mental last time and I hope the police dont allow it to happen again.
I mean I hope the peaceful protesters also dont allow this to happen again.
Not really angry Elfin
Yeah right. You keep telling yourself that, maybe one day you'll believe it.
Truth be told though, although you constantly fantasise about violence, you probably never actually get involved in any. Have you ever bin in a proper fight/extreme violent situation?
Sancho those won't be the peaceful protesters that were arrested. Those will be undercover Police operatives that staged events.
When I worked in central London and Police first did the 'unjust kettling'.
I was trapped in work for hours because of the violent rioting. The Police got us out and over the hours that followed the rioters were penned in and kettled. I ****ing thought justice has been done. Funny as they'd done their days protesting and now wanted to go home to their tea but now it was them inconvenienced.
BTW- innocents caught in that particular kettling? No, the Police told us there was a breakaway violent section that had smashed up Topshop/Regents st etc and they'd been caught/contained. So the media falsely reported that bit.
The Police that got us out looked scared, exhausted and shot.
saved by tea and kittens again, phew!just look at some of the pictures.
I remember, some dispicable stuff being done [i]by a minority[/i] I'll wholeheartedly back the judicial system to arrest and convict them. But intimidating people prior to the event to try and reduce numbers, nah that's not on.
Funny, always the right whingers who lose the mask of civility and wish violence against those they disagree with.
Basic lack of intelligence or a realisation that you can't win a rational debate? 😉
Elfin - yep!
Like the time I shot a man, in Reno, just to watch him die...
I'm working class Rusty.
I didn't blame Thatcher for my childhood and I don't blame the Bankers for my adult life.
I control and affect my under destiny.
You just keep believing that...
is that what pants you're going to wear tomorrowI control and affect my [b]under destiny[/b].
BTW Im hoping to go to Carlton Bank and Hamsterley on Sunday, anyone fancy going? 🙂
BTW- innocents caught in that particular kettling? No, [b]the Police told us[/b] there was a breakaway violent section that had smashed up Topshop/Regents st etc and they'd been caught/contained. So [b]the media falsely reported[/b] that bit.
Hmm...
Bizarrely, I'm more inclined to believe the media these days. What with so many coppers giving false accounts/lying about their identities in court and that...
It's a sad day when the police are used as a political weapon. No surprise though with the Tories really, not like it hazzunt happened before...
On the flipside- The violence towards the protesters in the Countryside Alliance March was shocking.
People peacefully disagreeing with being pushed (for no reason) being hit in the face (infront of media cameras) etc.
That was a peaceful march with a wierdly OTT Police response.
I didn't say posh Hora, I said right wing.
Democracy is hard won and easily lost.
Allowing a minority the chance to prove their stupidity once in a while is one of the small prices we pay for the freedom we have.
Really mate, no offence, but you are a politicians dream. Life would be so much easier for the political classes, the police and the military if they could curtail the freedoms that previous generations fought and died for.
It's everyone's responsibility to ensure this doesn't happen, yet you're happy to hand your freedom back to them on a plate.
Oh dear have we reached the freedom crap again.
I didnt realise the police, the tories, the cyclists on a forum were calling for an end to the right to peaceful protest.
You may have gathered from his constant this-isn't-good-enough-I-need-something-better upgrading that he's an advertising mans wet dream too.
Basically he believes pretty much anything he is told or reads
if they could curtail the freedoms that previous generations fought and died for.
What? My granddad fought for the right not go get a letter in the post telling you not to break the law did he?
We all believe what we read based on our viewpoint.
Be that the Guardian the BBC, socialist worker, the Daily Mail.
The problem is that the actual events etc are skewed in favour of whatever agenda people have.
We simply have different points of view and we have to accept that and as usual the forum argument degenerates