MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
Reading about it I'm actually quite chuffed for some reason that the likes of Straw, Hayward and MacAskill have basically given it the finger.
Can't help it but everytime I see something about it the Amercian attitude seems firstly to be paranoia based and smacks of a schoolmaster/pupil type "come here boy" type realtionship.
Is that unreasonable? Does it all seem a far fetched political diversion to you or do you reckon Shell drilling off the coast of Libya and the release are linked events??
Thoughts please, (ps: if done before sorry)
They may well find the 'bomber' was innocent.
Agree, US thinks it runs the world, only whines about terrorism/oil spills on its own land or affects its own people (no doubt we are as bad).
Does seem that the release was a bit bungled, shame an appeal could not have happened in time as mc says.
I don't remember US people turning up in India to answer questions about Bhopal !
The 'invitation ' deserves a less than diplomatic 2 word answer
Now they want to come over to carry out the investigation here.
Fine but do expect to be standing on the pavement while people ignore you completely. We've told you why he was released now kindly away and play at invading people, who according to the intel haven't got the ability to fight you toe to toe.
Persoanlly I'd be inclined to be inviting Bush,Chaney ect to the Iraq War enquiry. Reckon we'e got at least as strong if not stronger case for doing that!!
Its a couple of american senators grandstanding.
Yeah we did it before:
http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/omg-someone-has-the-balls-to-stick-the-vs-up-at-the-yanks
The general consensus then seemed to be that the silly jocks had been drinking too much Special Brew while watching Braveheart and had got far too uppity for their own good.
Course now that Jack Straw has likewise told them to ram it I suspect opinions will be different.
Maybe we should send [url= http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2020607.ece ]John Smeaton[/url] to sort them out.
the Amercian attitude seems firstly to be paranoia based
Does the name Joseph McCarthy mean anything?
Teh american senators are confusing the UK governments prisoner exchange agreement with Libya which may well have been politically expedient and even helpfull towards BP. However the UK government had no say over the release or not as he was under Scottish jurisdiction. ( although they didn't realise this when they made the agreement - the Libyans certainly thought they were getting him back at that point)
He was eventually released under compassionate release and I am certain it was not corrupt. The SNP wouldn't piss on a unionist politician if they were on fire so no way would they have done this at the behest of Blair and co.
I am quite content it was the right decision. The only murky bit about it is that it was made a condition of the release that the appeal was dropped.
Teh scottish government have released all documents around this that they can long ago. some stuff is withheld by the UK government and some by the USA government. The medical info is withheld as they don't have his permission to release which is right and proper.
Quite right on all counts TJ, my view is that it is a bit of a bleeding liberty to be summonsing members of another countries government to be grilled over something like this which frankly doesn't seem to have the slightest grounding in fact. Especially when that country is the one that provides the collateral for yours to damage!!
Fine but do expect to be standing on the pavement while people ignore you completely
I love this mental image, like some kind of market survey type with a clipboard and a mic whilst everyone just rushes past them.
American culture has a tendency towards the confrontational, also a tendency towards seeing things in black and white, it seems to me.
I think their Senators have to try and look good to their electorate, so they queue up to form these committees and hand out a good honest American ass-kicking. Then when elections come round, they can say 'look what I did'.
Anyone else see yer man Alex whotsiface - boss man on Scotland, on newsnight last night...
I'm not usually one for a. newsnight b. politicians c. newsnight but, saw it and he came across very very well-
Told the yanks they'd receive a courteous welcome, should the come over...
Politely reminded The Yanks, that hardly a day goes by when the families of those killed on the ground in Scotland don't remember the fateful night.
Politely reminded the Yanks that they are not willing to send folk over to answer questions at the Iraq enquiry...
As for 'why' - grandstanding - mid-terms coming up and BP is a red hot topic in the US = high profile political point scoring...
Stop calling them Yanks btw, it shows your ignorance.
>I don't remember US people turning up in India to answer questions about Bhopal !
<
Intersting analogy: a warrant was put out for the arrest of the US exec in charge of Union Carbide - never happened. 20,000 dead and 25 years to secure 8 convictions - none of them US citizens.
Stop calling them Yanks btw, it shows your
ignorance.
Quite right, the correct term is "merkin", as in the phrase "Am a merkin citizen boy" 🙂
Someone needs to remind the Americans the Megrahie was released in reality to save their embarrassment. As he was well on the way to getting an appeal which probably would have exonerated him and exposed the Americans as witness bribing stitch up artists.. A conditioon of his release was that he had to drop his appeal, he was going to go free anyway, better for the politicians this way than actually revealing in a court of law that his conviction was wrong.
Yanks = people from New England.
It's like calling a Londoner a Geordie. Just wrong.
I am certain it was not corrupt
thats good enough for me.
"The term Yankee (sometimes shortened to "Yank"), has a few related meanings, usually [u]referring to someone either of general United States origin[/u] or, more specifically within the U.S., to people originating in New England"
-- http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yankee
"Yankee noun (Yankees) [u]1 Brit colloq a person from the US.[/u] 2 N Amer, especially US a person from New England or from any of the
northern states of America. 3 communications in the NATO alphabet: the word used to denote
the letter 'Y'."
-- http://www.chambersharrap.co.uk/chambers/features/chref/chref.py/main?title=21st&query=yankee
[i]I am certain it was not corrupt[/i]
The Libyans seem content also that Al Megrahie was released as part of a quid pro quo for BP to start drilling, they see it quite plainly as part of the deal, and approached Jack Straw with this in mind. Who in turn lent on the Scottish executive, I think the phrase "In the best interests of the United Kingdom" was used. Now, I have no issue with this, personally I think the man's probably innocent. BUT, as most of the dead were Americans and from the east Coast, and the two senators making all the fuss are their Representatives, it seems only proper, from their POV that they ask the questions...
Realpolitik is a sordid business, no?
The words I use generally mean what I intend them to mean, if they don't mean that to you then you've misunderstood my meaning.
Yanks has been a generic term for Americans in this country all of my life. Still is.
So nickc where do you get all your info from? I'd love to have that sort of detailed insight into the inner machinations of government. Any chance you can clear up the UFO sightings at Rendlesham while you are at it? Personally I've always thought it was mountain bikers night riding.
Berm, all this is pretty universally available news.
Yeah, yeah nickc. Don't believe everything you read in The Times. You'll be telling us next that a load of Saudis did 9/11. 🙄
Berm, all this is pretty universally available news
Where?? I can't find anything about the UFO's thats has any weight at all.
Regarding the Lockerbie thing..... where?? are you confusing facts with opinions expressed in newspapers or did Jack Straw announce this underhand deal or wander into No 10 with documents under his arm with
[i][b]-LOCKERBIE-
It Was Some Big Boys What Done It and run away shocker
(Better let the Arab go - See what sort of deal you can get)
Love
Your one eyed Love puppet
Gordy[/b][/i]
...written on the front ???
Berm, I care about this >< much.
So I'll take that as point conceded then shall I?
Berm. If you're interested, you can download a pretty lengthy analysis of the flaws in Al-Megrahi's conviction from Private Eye's website I think. Most people have read this.
🙂
No doubt BD, but that wasn't the point that nickc was making, nor the one I was disputing. He was making a statement regarding what went on in the inner circle of Government including discussions regarding trading Megrahi for oil concessions as a matter of fact. All I'm saying is that that is at best speculation on a grand scale and totally unsupportable as anything else at this time.
nickc - there is no way at all that the nationalist politicians and holyrood would do anything as a favour to the unionist UK politicos. Its simply unthinkable
If they had been leaned on or asked to do a favour then they would have broadcast it loudly
As I put above - Salmond wouldn't piss on Blair or Brown if they were on fire.
Hmmm. Must admit, while I'm not going to start scrabbling about for it on the internets, nickc's account sounds right-ish. If it's speculation then I've a suspicion it's other people's speculation, which may very well be based on some deep background briefing.
Also, if you remember what was subsequently admitted to have gone on prior to Libya's "renunciation" of WMDs and after the seizure of the BBC China it's also (to my mind) fairly plausible.
But agreed. Not a "fact" that is going to be admitted to any time soon as far as I'm aware. 🙂
Berm Bandit, I think you are probably right, but if you remember the news reports at the time it did pretty much state that he had an appeal, and that the powers at be were worried that he may well succeed. Hence the proviso that he drop his appeal and be let out on "compassionate" grounds it was an excuse. It was probably the Americans idea so that then they would not be exposed as witness bribers and still be able to make political hay about how terrible it was that he was released given that he was still a "convicted" terrorist. It's all bollocks as the Americans are the biggest benefactors out of this whole thing being the largest shareholders in BP.
[i]So I'll take that as point conceded then shall I? [/i]
If you like.
Ta I will then..... and can I just say its jolly decent of you to accept that with such good grace. A man of exceptional humility of you don't mind me saying so 😉