[Closed] The wonderful world of work

In that kind of place, make sure that when you get briefed you write everything down, and date it. Then when you get bollocked, bring out your notebook and go back over it with them. Always confirm back what you've been asked to do and get their agreement that your understanding is correct. Potentially petty, but saves lots of grief.

****s sake, if that's the case it's exactly like the place I was at be before, I came here because I thought it wouldn't be like this. My sodding hearts going at like 160 and I've gone red in the face.

I'm paying 300 quid a month just to be here, so it's a bit of a disappointment.

Mehhh.

Pretty standard. Usually stems for management having no idea what is actually going on or changing the plan without telling anyone as well as people lower down the chain doing what they feel like. TBH he sounds like a poor manager, which is common in all industries.

Your paying for a bollocking?!
Find the exit, go through it.

I don't want to though, it took me so ****ing long to find somewhere that had the time to train me up or could be bothered to return my e-mails. My last place was similar so I wanted to find a nice department I could work hard for, develop a good reputation and either move internally to a paid position or at least get a decent reference.

If I **** off I'm going to feel like a job hopping floating about the system **** and I need the reference to find paid employment in/around January so that my wife can stay here.

arghhhhh

research can be a nightmare ime, budgets are poor and someone who can publish well is most definitely not necessarily a good manager! especially when financial pressures mean that every penny counts

its tough, trying to get everything arranged by email can help, so you have proof of what youve been told

and walkings not such a great idea without something good linedup, 6 months without a job now after being messed around over my latest position which im now having to reapply for despite already being interviewed and offered the job!

Sounds like he just needed to moan at someone. Always best to get requirements in writing of course as you know.

Can we just assume that you explained to the guy that you were doing as directed by the person you support, and that if he has an issue he has to take it up with them? I used to be quite passive in the workplace but being more assertive has almost always led to a quieter life not a worse one.

What NW says - posher version of shout at the organ grinder not the monkey [ no disrespect meant ] as they know you were not the decision maker
or yes sir nor sir three bags full sir to get the reference

Can we just assume that you explained to the guy that you were doing as directed by the person you support

I did and then I scuttled off before the fire I lit turned into a thermobaric bomb.

If anyone on here can offer me a job for 18.6k in anything (I can put my mind to just about anything I want to) and in any part of the country including Northern Ireland, I'll gladly walk. Just want my missus to stay here, that's all, research work can wait till she's here permanently. You'll be getting someone who's willing to do 60 hour weeks, spend money to get work experience and generally get on with the job in a trustworthy manner. If you can appreciate that then I will gladly do anything right now.

Why do you keep getting shat on? What positive action can you take to make your work life a better place to be?

[url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/i-have-cold-hard-evidence ]http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/i-have-cold-hard-evidence[/url]

[url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/i-have-my-resignation-letter-in-my-hand ]http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/i-have-my-resignation-letter-in-my-hand[/url]

That's my lesson for today then.
Just googled Thermobaric Bomb.
They look quite nasty/awesome.

Not sure? Bad luck? There was nothing I did wrong here for sure, I turn up, I smile, I do the job I'm asked to do, I don't leave before the works finished, the work I've been doing here is good.

It's not like I'm not used to it, worked with chefs in good restaurants for a long time, just had enough of it.

What's life like where your missus comes from? Could you get work or start a business there?

The Philippines is a bit mental and I'd be on about 300/400 quid a month in the same job, although I guess the work experience would count.

I think the 3 months in Europe workaround to dick over the UKBA still works, so maybe I'll just go and get a bar job in the south of France for a bit.

Couples do quite well finding work in ski resorts. Does your missus have papers that allow her to work in Europe? When in business I had a preference for employing couples for seasonal work as they can find and pay for accommodation more easily, and generally stay the course. Madame and I worked for the same schools when teaching abroad and many colleagues were couples.

I am afraid you need to manage the manager or he will give you hell.

Having said that you can always deck him Kray brothers style.

😈

+1 for work being a less-than-wonderful experience ATM. Suffering from new broom syndrome here.

I am afraid you need to manage the manager or he will give you hell.

Having said that you can always deck him Kray brothers style.

Read the post, it was his manager's manager.

If anyone on here can offer me a job for 18.6k in anything (I can put my mind to just about anything I want to) and in any part of the country including Northern Ireland, I'll gladly walk.

OCADO driver.

Pretty much that with quarterly bonuses.

chakaping - Member
Read the post, it was his manager's manager.

Deck your manager first (him not taking up his responsibility by blaming you) then deck your manager's manager (for micro managing subordinate two level down) ... Kray brothers style.

The order should be ... Big manager manages smaller managers and smaller managers manages micro people.

If big manager manages micro people then there is no need for smaller manager.

😛

Doesn't sound normal. I think in some industries & academia people end in charge because they good at what they used to do. That guy shouting at you probably longs to be stuck in a basement doing research and not going to funding meetings and "managing" a group of people.

The scenario is of poor communication and expectation from your managers. They need to sort themselves out first before sorting out others. 😯

Is this normal and does it ever get any better or am I just cursed in terms of picking departments to work in?

Pretty much. Everyone gets bollockings they don't deserve now and again. Understanding that helps to grow a thicker skin (unpleasant though it is at the time).

You're in academia. It's the only place with worse people management than law firms IME.

Used to being bollocked, head chefs screaming "you cahhhnt, do that again"....followed by crockery flying across the kitchen and me saying "yes chef, no chef" etc. After 5 minutes you're back to cracking sick and twisted jokes with your boss or making shockingly perverted comments about waitresses.

It's worse with academics though as I don't trust them not to carry it on and stew like ****ing teenagers.

making shockingly perverted comments about waitresses

I'm sure you didn't deserve the bollocking earlier but maybe it's karma doing its job. I've worked in plenty of kitchens and known the kind of "banter" that does the rounds - couldn't wait to get out and see the back of it. Bunch of arseholes.

Let me clarify, mostly other chefs, that's kind of the culture in kitchens. Part of the reason why I never want to work in one again. You end up joining in otherwise you become the target of the "banter", usually banter that questions your sexuality.

The point being (except when kitchens get violent) is that despite kitchens being giant clownwagons they seem to deal with things better than academics. On the surface they seem childish but really, the kinds of people who stew on things and stalk up and down the corridors all day in a bad mood are far, far worse people at heart. I can't understand people like this.

There was me expecting better from people who held doctorates.

The point being, is that despite kitchens being giant clownwagons they seem to deal with things better than academics.

Big brains don't equal big management skills.

But because academics are used to being experts, they all assume they're expert at leading people. My observations of Dr North's world tell me the opposite is almost always true.

despite kitchens being giant clownwagons they seem to deal with things better than academics.

[i]the kinds of people who stew on things and stalk up and down the corridors all day in a bad mood are far, far worse people at heart. I can't understand people like this.[/i]

As opposed to what, saying nothing about it and whinging about your job on internet forums?

Sounds more like the 2 industries are offering the same thing in different ways. Do you want to be kicked in the balls and crapped on or crapped on and kicked in the balls. With the greatest respect to the skills of academics I'd never work for one, you are also the bottom of the food chain, they give you shit and you keep turning up. Is there a reason you can't find a job doing what you want to be doing?

First job in research didn't go so well, so I've just been trying to get a decent reference to make up for it. Everywhere asks for experience.

As opposed to what, saying nothing about it and whinging about your job on internet forums?

Hi Gary, I like to learn from other peoples experiences, as it helps me understand my own thoughts.

Kimbers for example, is a postdoctoral researcher I believe. So his post was pretty informative (thanks for that btw kimbers). This thread will be useful in deciding whether I want to carry on in university based laboratories. I might start looking at corporate roles that need people with good analytical/quantitative skills now.

Stay cheerful though mate.

Yep cheerful here, enjoying my job. If I didn't I wouldn't moan about it on the internet though, as you do. Thanks for the tip.

From 4 months ago
[i]that my immediate superviosr/boss person thingy has been gaslighting me. Written documentation with my tasks to do, that conflict with what she says she told me to do. I've now been told I don't listen to her, can't remember what she said or can't follow verbal tasks (seeing as I worked in ktichens for 5 years, I'm pretty sure that I can). I do not remember her telling me to do these things differently.[/i]

Is this the same employer, or a different one now?

ourmaninthenorth - Member

But because academics are used to being experts, they all assume they're expert at leading people. My observations of Dr North's world tell me the opposite is almost always true.

I don't work in research but I work daily with academics, tbh they mostly seem very aware of their specialisations and limitations. Course, that doesn't stop them from exceeding their abilities, but it tends to make them less annoying when they do it. There's a lot of peter principle but I think not as much dunning-kruger as I've tended to find in other fields.

(I get to boss around some of my old lecturers when they come on my turf, obviously I take no pleasure from this at all)

You see at the top there, I was asking some questions. I'm glad you enjoy your work, I like scientific work as well, I'm just new to it. This thread has been useful, even badnewz managed to be polite and I know he doesn't like my brands of politics.

See what I mean, the shallow pettiness of it all.

To be honest having a look at your previous work whinges I suggest you have a problem with taking instruction from people.

How many 'jobs' have you had this year?

Two. Well three if you count the second one I am working at the same time as this one. And one before those for five years whilst I balanced studying.

People struggle to deal with his amazeballs Verbal IQ skills, innit 😈

I think you are fairly young and it is hard to judge from a smattering on the internet but you are either unlucky or they have a point

Hah! Fair play Junky, also sorry about that. Sense of humor breakdown that day.

This place is loads better than the last place, but it's on the other end of the spectrum. The last place was very very organised to the point they were drowning in paperwork and were rushing around all the time, this place is very laissez faire. On the whole I'm having a much better time here and I feel more confident that the lab is the right place for me, I just still don't feel entirely used to how the real world of work operates (eg not kitchens).

Are the reception staff any more in awe of you at this new place?

No, there's no reception girl to be in awe of my awesome personality and good looks.

[i]No, there's no reception girl to be in awe of my awesome personality and good looks.[/i]

Males can also work in reception you know.

You mean men can fancy me?

My god, so much wasted opportunity. 😆

And the girls are probably older than you.

How much experience is needed for commercial lab monkey? Do you have a relevant degree, year in industry? If you want paid lab work try soil and groundwater analysis or water treatment.

don't feel entirely used to how the real world of work operates

No offence taken re other thread.

Cheers Mike, didn't have a year in industry. I was finding it hard to find industrial lab monkey positions, especially explaining away a 6 month gap after my first research based job. So the idea was that I do this, then either apply for academic or industrial jobs.

My background is in the Biomedical sciences.

I was mid 30's when i first worked in a office and had to learn office politics
It can be strange but there is some good advice on here

That's good to know, really I quite like everyone on here and find the place amazingly informative.

Don't know if they are going still but srg (science recruitment group) were worth a look (last time I used them you were probably at junior school). With anything unpaid make sure you ask yourself what you are getting from it, was the interview feedback that you lacked experience? Hard to say if you are looking at grad positions, are the skills you are gaining relevant?

Yes, I'm working in a molecular biology laboratory. The work I'm doing is actually far more relevant than what I was being paid to do before. I've been troubleshooting a PCR protocol, purifying dna, culturing, cloning, gaining insights into x-ray crystallography etc etc.

was the interview feedback that you lacked experience

Mostly, even when it comes to shortlisting.

Personally,

My stance is that I'm not paid to take crap off people, put up with their tantrums and general abuse and bullying. Life's too short for that nonsense.

I don't mind 'banter' and to a degree you have to roll with it, but if someone was screaming and calling me a see you next Tuesday in front of my colleagues, and meant it, they'd be explaining their actions to HR before the day was out. Even if I am.

Acceptable in the industry my arse, the industry needs to sort itself out. The same excuse used to be trotted out to justify racism, sexism and homophobia; are we still living in the 70s?

But we're you applying for graduate positions or for general jobs that require you to hit the ground running.

And sorry but life lessons, don't just throw technical words in to make it sound more impressive/important. I'm just here having a beer after ringfenceing the unicorn in Jakarta having dropped a bombastic move on delivery of visualisation of the good.

But we're you applying for graduate positions or for general jobs that require you to hit the ground running.

And sorry but life lessons, don't just throw technical words in to make it sound more impressive/important.

I applied for some of the big grad schemes the last year, unfortunately I didn't get any. I'm going to be trying them again this year. Honestly though, technical experience is what counts and they have to be in the right area. These are all techniques that seem to be commonly listed in job postings.
There are other softer skills that I'm learning, such as how to plan my own work etc.

I'm just here having a beer after ringfenceing the unicorn in Jakarta having dropped a bombastic move on delivery of visualisation of the good.

Lol....what?

Yes but otherwise relevant to posting in here unless you want to sound more impressive. My comment was to show that.

I guess Mike, it wasn't really meant to do that. It was in the off chance that you were a scientist and you knew that these techniques are what a lot of employers asks for.

A misunderstanding that's all.

I might start looking at corporate roles that need people with good analytical/quantitative skills now.

QC lab monkey?

I have no idea why anyone would want to be a lab monkey in any shape or form. You basically become an inefficient machine with a highish error rate*, or at least to management you do.

There must be another job out there that you can do, I fell into the lab monkey role to get away from the UK and I'm currently stuck in the rut wanting to leave. Don't do it.

* - I make 1 mistake a year, I'm allowed 2 before I get no payrise.

Being honest it comes across as cocky. Something to be avoided. Did you get feedback on grad schemes, taking time out post uni is easily explained with words like travel and gap year etc. It's a good thing as it means you might have got it out of your system and not be about to do it soon. Also your other half is in the same place as you? Foreign partners scare employers, they think you will be off at some point. I eventually proved my old boss right.

Being honest it comes across as cocky. Something to be avoided. Did you get feedback on grad schemes, taking time out post uni is easily explained with words like travel and gap year etc. It's a good thing as it means you might have got it out of your system and not be about to do it soon. Also your other half is in the same place as you? Foreign partners scare employers, they think you will be off at some point. I eventually proved my old boss right.

Thanks Mike. Yeah, my wife is in the same place as me roughly. She has 3 months left to go at university. So we are currently living together.

My employers don't have to know about my wife, my last employer did so I'll try to hide it next time.

I make 1 mistake a year, I'm allowed 2 before I get no payrise.

😯

Are all the big pharma companies like this?

Surgeons and fighter pilots make more mistakes per year than that.

Anyway....

[img] [/img]

Yes, I'm working in a molecular biology laboratory. The work I'm doing is actually far more relevant than what I was being paid to do before. I've been troubleshooting a PCR protocol, purifying dna, culturing, cloning, gaining insights into x-ray crystallography etc etc.

With all due respect, even with a few months' experience you won't be classed as any more 'experienced' than a recent MSc or placement student. Lots of big labs have shut in recent times so there is a glut of well qualified, highly experienced (10+ years) lab staff out there. Molecular biology skills are transferable to pretty much everything nowadays and what you're doing isn't anything high level that a man in the street couldn't pick up in a few weeks. The knowledge behind it is a different thing, of course, that's what you need to stay on top of.

I'd use this post simply to decide whether lab work is for you or not rather than expecting it to be a portal to something else. It takes a certain kind of person to work in a lab environment, many just aren't cut out for it, no matter how clever they are. Just like many academics aren't cut out for management 😀

(Lab manager, Russell Group uni)

I was going to do 6 months? Is that enough to at least gain an edge for positions that advertise experience as "desirable"? It's better than doing nothing anyway.

The knowledge behind it is a different thing, of course, that's what you need to stay on top of.

Luckily I am putting the work into context, so I'm engaging my brain as well carrying out processes.

Thanks LS, I'll think about your post a little bit more.

Good point what is your actual career plan?

Chemistry drop out, Ex polymer R&D, environmental testing, nuclear air pollution R&D, developer and now consultant 🙂

Never want to see a lab coat again...

Also don't stop applying for other stuff, don't wait until you have the experience you think they want as those jobs will be filled by the time you get the experience.

Well it was going to be, research tech/assistant > PhD (once my wife was earning over 18.6k) > Postdoc.

Maybe not now.

I will be less stressed if she gets a grad scheme position that will sponsor her to stay.

Also don't stop applying for other stuff, don't wait until you have the experience you think they want as those jobs will be filled by the time you get the experience.

I have been 🙂

On paper I'm still a technician, yet I'm on a better salary than all the postdocs, permanent contract, and the same pension scheme as the academics. I also still get to do the 'fun' stuff in the lab and although admin/management is now a big part of the job, it isn't anything like as stressful for me as it is for the academics.

Don't discount technician as a career - it might be preferable to the postdoc treadmill.

Is postdoc a career? Apologies if it is but really? I thought your missus was so. Each high flying business bird flying round Europe taking you with her?

She was Mike, for one year on her internship. They liked her so much that they asked her to do that. Now you've reminded me of that I'm less worried as they could sponsor her.

Anyway, Im sat in the pub now with a very nice belgian beer waiting for the train to get back home. Life is good. 🙂

I make 1 mistake a year, I'm allowed 2 before I get no payrise.

Are all the big pharma companies like this?

Well, the 3 I have worked for have been, you work in a Lab testing stuff worth a fortune - it's well worth finding out exactly where the mistake/failure happened to know if your product is releasable or not (and you are regularly checked by external groups to make sure you are doing this too).

As you work in a lab it's rare that you cannot find the true root cause (I am one of the best in the lab at the bench despite not enjoying it any more, but I have work very hard at it - currently at no mistakes this year).

**** me, people make small pipetting mistakes etc all the time in academic labs. Not sure I'd want to work with that hanging over my head. Do you mean mistakes like the odd pipetting error or false positive/negative results?

Anyway, I got the closest I was going to get to an apology today so I'm a bit more positive.

Sorry, late to reply.

A pipetting mistake is the easiest to discover (along with incorrectly mixed solutions) in the investigation (all qc labs will run a pre-investigation to rule out equipment/prep mistake - inc pipetting/mixing/dissolution), before they have to look into the more esoteric stuff.

That's a big black mark on your name. Depending on where you are you'll be doing between 10-40 samples a day, occasionally with repeated serial dilutions (2ndary manufacturing with multiple dose levels are a nightmare for this).

I've learnt to have some very set rules/procedures for prepping samples - and there are times I throw a lot of stuff away because I'm not 100% happy with that mornings work and start over.

As I said - you become an inefficient machine.

I wont ask who you work for, but as a line manager in a GMP QC release lab, to expect that error rate is bonkers.
1 or 2 mistakes causing repeat work in a couple of months is fair, a year is nuts.
Mind you I work in biologics which is naturally error prone anyway as the techniques are a little more interesting that the little white pill labs.
That said within a QC release lab the processes should be efficient and effective enough that the rate of error should be minimal.
All I can say is I wouldn't want to work in your lab, and I probably could hit that error rate (even though I am mainly confined to my desk now with paperwork)

Tricky but doable - with things as they are, if you want a pay rise you get the job done perfectly, sustainable RFT and that.

You just have to really concentrate on the accurate and precise sections, always aim for 100.00% and so far I'm golden. I try to stay on (volunteer :blush:) the non-routine complex stuff that no-one likes because there are less samples/preparations to worry about. It also helps to know procedures perfectly so you know when your heading into reportable deviation territory.

Actually, thinking about it, we switched over to normal distribution payrises a while ago so the 2 mistakes might still get you a payrise if someone is making 3-4 a year.

I never knew "no mistakes" existed. Crazy.

It is an unattainable target. Would expect that 95% RFT is a good target but 100% RFT is just nuts, mind you if using a LIMS system with ELN's then its closer.
I suspect that within my group we are on about 5-10% analyst error on a yearly rate.

I'm talking about mistakes leading to deviations - not "no mistakes". However a pippetting error will lead to a deviation so you really don't want to do them, it's not hard to pipette, it's doing loads and keeping concentration that is.

I'm surprised that as a manager that you don't have RFT figures, one of our KPI's is RFT (split into LROT/paperwork/testing). Maybe I'm out of the loop a bit as our place is mental for "lean" and everything is recorded in a metric somewhere. Makes it hard to hide if your not up to scratch.

Ok, that makes more sense.
In which case no mistakes leading to deviations is much closer to what our expectations are.
To be fair very few of our issues are pipetting errors, but then thats what you get with some assays having an inbuilt 20% failure rate. Biologics for you....
Our KPI's are a bit knackered at the minute (call it a change of senior management and a major re-assessment of the group).
We are in the middle of a pretty major change in everything, but its fun to be involved in, and validates a lot I have been saying in the year or so I have been there.

Maybe it's because I'm working in an academic lab where we are trying to get things to work that haven't been done before, so we do a lot of troubleshooting - as such I have yet to be able to work out my error rate. I'm pretty sure I could hit 95% RFT and I've yet to have an error that led to a deviation since I've worked in a lab.

Still, I don't think I'd want that hanging over my head. It would have to depend on the workload, if I'm going to have to do a daft amount of assays for weeks on end with a long time spent at the bench without access to water then I'm going to make a mistake at some point unless I dose myself up to my eyeballs on adderall and snort a few lines of coke.

Not my idea of fun