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religon in any form is just social poison
I mean, I'm as godless as the next atheist, but that's demonstrable nonsense.
I'm increasingly anti-theist... Athiesim, as far as I'm concerened, is just sitting on the fence. Grow a spine and make your mind up.
The occasional token 'good' gestures of the indoctrinated donors (sorry ' faithfull worshipers') who can ill afford it, are far out weighted by the crimes agaist humanity, and nature, they collectivley encorage to spread their disease to others.
I might have had a little bit of respect for the pope if he had taken out Vance as his last act.
I just think it's tragic for those who are brainwashed... religon in any form is just social poison. It has no place in modern society.
Hmm, so you want to be tolerant and inclusive, but only if people see things your way, yes? Sounds awfully familiar.
The occasional token 'good' gestures of the indoctrinated donors (sorry ' faithfull worshipers') who can ill afford it, are far out weighted by the crimes agaist humanity, and nature, they collectivley encorage to spread their disease to others.
What you fail to see is that those things aren't linked. People who are arseholes are such regardless of religion or anything else. Intolerance, ignorance and rigid thinking are much bigger problems and you're displaying plenty of all three.
It's a bit like.. motorbikes. Do motorbikes make people into arseholes on the road? Or are arseholes simply inclined to get motorbikes and rag them about in a dangerous anti-social manner? If there were no motorbikes, would they be doing it in cars instead? Are there lots of sensible riders who take good care and are nice, or who just want to get to work quickly and easily?
I don't think religion has the monopoly on brainwashing and judging by levels of church attendance is absolutely lousy at it compared with Farage, Putin, Moa, Jordan Peterson, Tate, Trump, AfD... .
Humans seem to be naturally superstitious and inventive when it comes to the unknown. They'll believe in all sorts of shite and those beliefs will get them doing all sorts of stuff from going round serving hot drinks and food to the homeless to protesting outside abortion clinics. Take away your "social poison" and what you're left with is in many repsects worse; a moral vacuum is no better than a dodgy set morals. We live in societies in which the law of the land is still very much based on christian values some of which you probably agree with and some you probably don't. The more "poisonous" verses from leveticus have slowly been purged from the legal texts and what remains of christian values in our legal and moral system I see as largely positive. We don't generally stone adulterers any more or imprison homosexuals though some would still like to, and women don't belong to their husbands though some blokes still seem to think they do. Hopefull the next Pope will be a litle bit more progressive than the last because like it or not he'll be the moral and spirtual leader for many. I was happy to go to see the Pope but Farage can do one.
Is it too soon to ask why an all-loving, all-powerful god would ruin Easter for a billion of his followers?
Whatcha talking about? It was the perfect departure for a pope. The Good Lord preserved and sustained him during his numerous recent health scares just so the Pope could celebrate with his flock the joyous occasion of Easter.
The Holy Father's final words to over a billion Catholics was "Happy Easter to everyone!"
After that all that was left was to turn off the lights.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g9577g1k1o
A moral vacuum?
I'm sorry, but if you need to pay a subscription, and read a book, to tell you that you shouldn't rape children or beat your wife.... 🤪
For every one who's ****ed up I suggest there are many who find comfort and strength in their faith. After all those walks with pilgrims I view personal faith quite positively but organised religion not so favourably
That explains my own position far more eloquently than I have ever managed.
morals came before Christianity. Read Kant.
That's because you have Christian values, Mattyfez. Now have a look at societies with other values.
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Many-women-justify-wife-beating/articleshow/2450975.cms
so called Christian values predate Christianity
Well most of them are found in the Hebrew texts, TJ, which Christ himself was brought up with. He was a Jew and brought up with Jewish values.
morals came before Christianity. Read Kant.
Putting aside the fact that it is completely off topic I don't understand why you feel the need to make that point.
I have no doubt at all that, for example, Benjamin Netanyahu feels completely morally justified in murdering over 50 thousand Palestinians in the last 18 months.
Yes everyone has their own moral compass but I reckon that Jesus Christ's moral compass was pretty faultless, they certainly chime with mine.
It's a shame that unlike JC I'm just a wretched sinner though.
That's because you have Christian values, Mattyfez. Now have a look at societies with other values.
I have my values... to accuse me of having 'christian' vaues is just abject nonsence, and frankly, deeply offensive - but you know this and I suspect you are trying desperately to get a rise.
Different flavours of christans have vastly different values, according to what they are told by some random preist, pastor, bishop, bloke in a silly hat, etc... And that's just contemporary 'christians'.
The entire concept of religon is so utterly ridiculous, it changes according to who you listen to... and which way the wind is blowing at any given time.
if you can't see that, then you are part of the problem.
I have my values... to accuse me of having 'christian' vaues is just abject nonsence, and frankly, deeply offensive - but you know this and I suspect you are trying desperately to get a rise.
Well that escalated quickly
I have my values... to accuse me of having 'christian' vaues is just abject nonsence, and frankly, deeply offensive - but you know this and I suspect you are trying desperately to get a rise.
I'm really not being offensive or trying to get a rise, I'm stating the blindingly obvious, you've been brought up in a continent dominated by christianity for centuries, the education you recieved embodies christian values, the moral code, the history, the law... they all have their roots in Christianity.
This appears to be going the way all STW religion threads go. 🙁
Goodnight, and may your God go with you (if you feel the need for one, fine if you don't)
morality predates Christianity.
the moral code, the history, the law... they all have their roots in Christianity.
this is simply false
Christian morality is highly misogynistic and homophobic
I have my values... to accuse me of having 'christian' vaues is just abject nonsence, and frankly, deeply offensive - but you know this and I suspect you are trying desperately to get a rise.
Well that escalated quickly
Yeah , I think I'm done with this thread for the evening!
I'm just glad there's one less 'gatekeeper of morality' alive... may the pope burn in the hell he fabricated, or at least, did a lot of work to perpetuate the myth thereof.
Nice to see the ancient and well-trodden traditions being observed when it comes to religious matters.
And not just on STW, but in the Vatican too!
Organised Christian religion is both of those, TJ. The churches rely heavily on Leviticus, Moses and even what went before and it's unfortunate that Christ(ianity) who was somewhat more progressive gets tarred with the same brush. The really nasty stuff is mainly in the Hebrew texts, the Greek stuff relating to the life of christ is much more right on. But then what would I know, I've already said I'm an agnostic geologist.
I have my values... to accuse me of having 'christian' vaues is just abject nonsence, and frankly, deeply offensive - but you know this and I suspect you are trying desperately to get a rise.
I'm really not being offensive or trying to get a rise, I'm stating the blindingly obvious, you've been brought up in a continent dominated by christianity for centuries, the education you recieved embodies christian values, the moral code, the history, the law... they all have their roots in Christianity.
This appears to be going the way all STW religion threads go. 🙁
Goodnight, and may your God go with you (if you feel the need for one, fine if you don't)
Yes, no offence intended..you can belive whatever you want as long as you don't hurt anyone else...
you've been brought up in a continent dominated by christianity for centuries, the education you recieved embodies christian values, the moral code, the history, the law... they all have their roots in Christianity.
Correlation does not equal causation... if you were really an 'educator' then this should be a pretty basic concept for you.
Good night, sleep well. etc.
An endless procession of stale old guys who last a few years and are then replaced with the next oldest cab off the rank? Hardly winning over new converts? Feel more like the USSR pre Gorbachev.
And the USA, Post-Obama !
My partner is the producer of a rather large, live, national radio show. The opening track this afternoon was due to be 'Another one bites the dust', played straight after the news.
Apparently this morning was rather stressful, having to completely re-build the show!
My partner is the producer of a rather large, live, national radio show. The opening track this afternoon was due to be 'Another one bites the dust', played straight after the news.
Apparently this morning was rather stressful, having to completely re-build the show!
Ninja move: replace 'another one bites the dust' by Queen, with 'who want's to live forever' by Queen. Easy 😆
Right, that's my last comment tonight. Honest.
I'm not sure if posting the wife beating link to show the superiority of Christian values really says what you think it does.
Why don't we take a trip to some of the more Christian parts of Africa and see how the attitudes to wife beating compare to those in India shall we?
Perhaps what you view as Christian values are, in fact, Western secular values that began coming about after the Enlightenment when we finally managed to start ridding our society of the mysticism and strict hierarchical structures imposed by the Church.
Secular values that I'm sure many Christians would like to see rolled back to a greater or lesser extent. Weren't thing just better when everyone had to go to church, after all?
Yesterday, the Pope made a public appearance in St Peter's Square and met JD Vance briefly. This morning, he died.
Holy smokes, that must have been some confession!
Holy smokes, that must have been some confession!
Judging by the expression on the Pope’s face as Vance takes his hand, he looks like his worst nightmare has arrived in front of him!
That's because you have Christian values, Mattyfez. Now have a look at societies with other values.
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Many-women-justify-wife-beating/articleshow/2450975.cms
this is an absolutely pisspoor take when you look at cross-national data on attitudes towards violence against women. Societies that are highly Christian, barely Christian, not Christian at all are all mixed up in their attitudes. There is no neat line between "Christian values" and VAWG in either direction.
I think a couple of people on this thread would do well to remember the little known 11th Commandment;
"There's no need to be a dick about it"
I thought Conclave was OK, describing it as a thriller was pushing it a bit. Anyone ascribing any sort of singular perspective on "The Church" or "Christianity" as if they are monolithic blocs that are all populated with people who think the same way are either mostly just saying that they really don't like religion, or haven't read any history. Ever.
Every corridor, every room, every chapel, every part of the building is literally covered in near priceless works of art. It is overwhelming, it is nauseating. Gold leaf covering everything, sculptures, frescos, jewels, it is dripping in wealth. This same organisation then goes to Africa and preaches to poor people and encourages them to make donations to the church.
Even before we'd got to the Vatican on our holiday 20+ years ago, we went to one of the four main cathedrals of Rome (Santa Maria Maggiore).
I had the same thought about ten seconds after entering, when I looked up at the ceiling.
If you take a step back and appraise the Catholic church as a business, it sure is one heck of a business model.
As a very lapsed Catholic*, I find the present media attention being paid to the popes death somewhat bizarre. Listening to the reporting in the media of what will now take place to select the next pope illustrates what an arcane and almost medieval organisation it is.
Obviously the only women involved in the process will be doing the cleaning or catering in the Vatican and ultimately, we all know that they’ll just select another old white man who will have lived a life completely detached from what is most peoples day to day reality.
After watching in disbelief the tone-death shenanigans at the Church of England recently, I expect the Catholic Church to now say ‘hold my communion wine….’
* if you want to ensure a lifelong suspicion of or active hostility to organised religion, then giving someone a catholic education is a good place to start
Well I'd certainly advise any objective person to have a bit of a read-up on Jesus's various instructions/lessons/parables (especially those around wealth etc) before setting foot in a grand cathedral - then try to square the two. It's not easy - unless you BELIEVE, presumably.
If you take a step back and appraise the Catholic church as a business, it sure is one heck of a business model.
It is also the largest charitable organisation in the world.
It's got one heck of a balance sheet for a charity.
A very small selection of countries there in the OECD report Politecamera action, that the countries actually compile stats suggests Christian morals in those societies. You also need to consider the proportion of people with a Christian upbringing in each of those countries. France rightly refuses to compile stats by ethnie or origin on many crimes but when it comes to forced marriage there's a governement web page and you only have to read through to see which communities its aimed at:
https://arretonslesviolences.gouv.fr/besoin-d-aide/mariage-force
If you take a step back and appraise the Catholic church as a business, it sure is one heck of a business model.
It is also the largest charitable organisation in the world. Which if assessed by the standards of other charities would surely be considered corrupt
I had the same thought about ten seconds after entering
But clearly did no further examination other that a relatively simplistic view. While the new testament is generally anti-wealth, it does also place value on art and craftmanship. Every cathedral acknowledges this duality, even the people building them at the time understood the contradiction. Do you "glorify" God with art and precious works? Stained glass can be both art and cartoons to tell people what's going on...The reformation took nearly all the 'beauty' from English churches, repainting the walls plain white, and at the time from the writing that exists from the normal Joe in the street, it was really unpopular. So what to do?
Look at the rebuilding of Notre Dame after the fire a couple of years ago, nearly everyone in France thought it was a national disaster, the rebuilding to as original as possible was supported by an overwhelming majority of people, they must all be suckers, right?
While the new testament is generally anti-wealth, it does also place value on art and craftmanship.
Where did you stand on Boris Johnson’s decoration and furniture bill?
While the new testament is generally anti-wealth, it does also place value on art and craftmanship.
Where did you stand on Boris Johnson’s decoration and furniture bill?
I wondered how so much money could result in something so cheap and tacky looking
just to point out there is no single Christian morality
Catholic morality is very different from other strands
this is an example of Catholic morality I am fighting with. On being asked why did she want folk to suffer at the end of their life
Yes because if one believes that suffering is preperation for eternal life and will make up for our wrongdoings . .everyone has done them .I have seen friends and family who have been granted that time to prepare and go back to God .....We dont know whats on the other side but personally I dontwant to take the risk because a few months is nothing compared to eternity .
they object to assisted dying because they believe suffering is necessary to enter heaven and want to impose this morality on the secular.
Earnie
it was needed to point out that morality predates Christianity because Edukator was falsely claiming that morality comes from christianity