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Yesterday, the Pope made a public appearance in St Peter's Square and met JD Vance briefly. This morning, he died.
Pope Francis was feared as or expected to be a radical reformer after the dogmatic and traditionalist Pope Benedict. Francis made more outreach to Catholics in the developing world and to the youth, but in the end he seems to have landed in Papal mainstream after all.
Who do Catholic STWers want to see as his replacement? And has anyone seen Conclave with Ranulph Fiennes? It's really good apart from the last 15 minutes...
Been meaning to watch Conclave but I'll wait for the live show now.
He did seem to want to try and be more progressive, but not sure the oil tanker was ready for turning.
There's many reasons to hate the Catholic church, but this is a very important moment to millions around the world (and unimportant to several billion more).
Youngest went to a Catholic secondary school, their return after the Easter break tomorrow will probably be interesting.
but in the end he seems to have landed in Papal mainstream after all.
I'm not sure why you say that.
The pope and Vance have tangled over immigration and the Trump administration’s plans to deport people en masse. Francis has made caring for those who migrate a hallmark of his papacy and his progressive views on social justice issues have often put him at odds with members of the more conservative US Catholic church.
The role of the Pope is very limited in contemporary politics, and quite rightly so, but Pope Francis wasn't scared to speak out.
Edited for the correct link
I fear that the cult will continue for a while yet, but enough about Vance, has he been interviewed by Papal Swiss Guard?
😉
Who do Catholic STWers want to see as his replacement?
Cardinal Luis Antonio Tagle.
Elderly 'world figure' meets creepy politician - dies shortly after....seems to be a trend. Perhaps you just appreciate - "has this what it's come to" and give up on life.
The recent Arch Bish of Canterbury stepping down was surprisingly low key. I remember Runcie's departure being a much bigger deal and he wasn't going in disgrace like Justin Welby. Obviously being pope is a bigger gig, but It'll be interesting to see if the Roman Catholic general public can muster as much interest as they have in past generations.
To quote Jimmy Carr - it's a little bit like when Diana died. I couldn't give a shit.
Conclave film good, Conclave book terrible.
I reckon he met Vance and realised he'd failed, so gave up...
To quote Jimmy Carr - it's a little bit like when Diana died. I couldn't give a shit.
Conclave film good, Conclave book terrible.
Yet you still felt the need to post..
Tbh, if I was an 88 year old bloke and I met vance, the realisation the world is run by imbeciles like him would probably make me think nows a good time to check out..
I'm not a big fan of the Catholic church however he came across as alot more tolerant than his predecessors
Rip Pope..
Conclave is a fantastic watch.
If we could get a slightly less pro-Ukrainian-surrender pope next time around, that would be great.
Pope Francis was feared as or expected to be a radical reformer after the dogmatic and traditionalist Pope Benedict
I think it's unlikely any pope will deliver a radical step change. There is too much inertia in the system not just within the management structure of the church but in the followers too. It'll need to be a nudge approach.
In some ways we should be grateful as putting the power to quickly make radical change in the hands of a single individual or small closed enclave has rarely ended well and if one pope can swing dramatically one way another could go the other.
Coincidentally we watched Two Popes last night with Anthony Hopkins and Jonathan Pryce. Which is linked to the back story of the resignation.
I think it's unlikely any pope will deliver a radical step change there is just too much inertia in the system not just within the management structure of the church but in the followers too.
In some ways we should be grateful as putting the power to quickly make radical change in the hands of a single individual or small closed enclave has rarely ended well.
Two very valid points - anyone wanting "radical" change in any situation/organisation seems to miss that it is easier to do with someone in charge as effectively a "dictator", and that hasn't often worked out for the best, historically or currently.
I'm not a big fan of the Catholic church however he came across as alot more tolerant than his predecessors
Tolerant of what? Paedophiles in the Catholic church? He might have taken some steps towards tightening the rules but fell far short of the zero-tolerance approach needed to deal with the problem.
As a non catholic, I felt that this pope did more to make the Catholic Church seem human, and approachable, and acceptable than most that I can remember. He seemed like a very human, caring person, aware of his own spiritual frailties.
To quote Jimmy Carr - it's a little bit like when Diana died. I couldn't give a shit.
I don't know about Diana but Pope Francis did speak for migrants, minorities and the marginalised.
What other significant and universally recognised voice of moral leadership and authority do you know who is currently doing that?
Or are these issues no longer relevant in this day and age and that's why we shouldn't give a shit?
The cult of personality is in full swing on daytime tv. Phone in with your memories of Pope Francis.
Caller 2; I'm not catholic and I never met him, but when I saw him on the telly he seemed like a good bloke.
I think the control room is just trying to make the presenters corpse on live tv with ludicrous calls.
The cult of personality is in full swing on daytime tv. Phone in with your memories of Pope Francis.
Caller 2; I'm not catholic and I never met him, but when I saw him on the telly he seemed like a good bloke.
I think the control room is just trying to make the presenters corpse on live tv with ludicrous calls.
Good day to bury bad news. Said the US Defence Secretary. Allegedly.
I don't know about Diana but Pope Francis did speak for migrants, minorities and the marginalised.
While I didn't buy into the ridiculous faux grief at her death, she did a fair bit for the homeless, the HIV and gay communities and other good causes.
I can't remember - was this dude the one immediately after the ex Hitler Youth guy or the one after the one after?
Apparently he was a bit of a reformer and said some nice things, but didn't do an awful lot about the sexual predators within the Catholic church.
As an agnostic, the last pope that registered in any significant way for me was John Paul II. He was appointed young enough to actually have an influence of his own (as well as being a poke in the eye for the godless bolsheviks).
An endless procession of stale old guys who last a few years and are then replaced with the next oldest cab off the rank? Hardly winning over new converts? Feel more like the USSR pre Gorbachev.
The Catholic church is a highly regressive oganisation and is in part responsible for many folk dying of aids due to its policy on condom use.
It is responsible for one old lady whos face still haunts me dying extremely distresed.
It covered up child abuse
It objects to assisted dying as people need to suffer before death to pay for their sins
Many othe apoaling things it is responsible for
Its is an evil cult
I was brought up as a catholic, went to a catholic primary school and was an alter boy at church, so feel slightly qualified to offer an opinion.
If anybody thinks the Catholic church is a force for good, then I would encourage them to do a tour of the Vatican. Every corridor, every room, every chapel, every part of the building is literally covered in near priceless works of art. It is overwhelming, it is nauseating. Gold leaf covering everything, sculptures, frescos, jewels, it is dripping in wealth. This same organisation then goes to Africa and preaches to poor people and encourages them to make donations to the church. Square that one for me.
Pope Francis seemed less offensive than some, but the organisation he headed up is an antiquated, hypocritical, dangerous cult.
What did JD Vance do to him yesterday?
The last thing he saw before he died:
I can't even imagine. True martyrdom.
RIP.
Every corridor, every room, every chapel, every part of the building is literally covered in near priceless works of art. It is overwhelming, it is nauseating. Gold leaf covering everything, sculptures, frescos, jewels, it is dripping in wealth
Look, I can explain. All that wealth is just resting in the Vatican at the moment.
As Father Ted is no longer with us my vote goes to Dougal. Or Bishop Brennen.
First Liz Truss kills the queen then Vance bumps off the pope.
If I was knocking on a bit and not in the best of health I'd be avoiding meetign any right wing nutjob policians.
If I was on my death bed, and Vance was coming to visit, I would want to pop my clogs before he arrived, I would pray my doctor was called Shipman.
I would want to pop my clogs before he arrived,
I dunno, I reckon telling him to his face that he and his boss were both hell-bound would be a satisfying last moment for a pontiff.
I would want to pop my clogs before he arrived,
I dunno, I reckon telling him to his face that he and his boss were both hell-bound would be a satisfying last moment for a pontiff.
Especially with some most un-Christian profanity included as well.
If I was doing that, rather than meet him I would just put out a public statement that during the visit "I have summoned the pope's exorcist to try and cast the demonic Vance to hell" or something similar.
This is going to be one of those threads where people are going to make a point of saying they don't care, isn't it.
As the Catholic church goes (a portion of sentence that is, admittedly, doing some heavy lifting) Pope Francis was fairly radical and liberal. Let's hope whoever the next one is continues down that path.
Oh, and I thought Conclave was really disappointing. It was like a very average ITV drama, but with better sets.
Vance told the pontiff he was going to put Tarrifs on indulgences.
RIP the Pope.
I thought Conclave was great - certainly for people like me who show no interest in this sort of thing usually.
Quiet drama from nothing much happening is definitely a story-telling skill.
It's also quite incredible how they reconstructed the Sistine Chapel and other locations.
When he said yesterday, "that bloody JD Vance is the last person on earth i want to meet", I doubt this is quite what he meant...
I dunno, I reckon telling him to his face that he and his boss were both hell-bound would be a satisfying last moment for a pontiff.
They will all meet up again there in the future. Trump and the Catholic Church have alot in common when it comes to greed, power, and turning a blind eye to improper allegations or convictions
This is going to be one of those threads where people are going to make a point of saying they don't care, isn't it.
Yeah. I mean there are many threads of dead celebrities I either dont' care for or have never heard of, but I don't post on them showing off the fact. I mean why would I?
Did JD vance just suck the last bit of 'catholic sex offence power' out of the pope to pick up the torch of misanthropy?
If 'hell' exits, may the pope burn in it. Good riddance.
Saw the man at the morning mass in the Vatican, understood nothing.
He annoyed me less than his predecessors (where TJ has a point) and took a position I agreed with on many issues: environment, global warming, protecting our collective house, we're all in it together. He worked on good relations with other religions especially the traditional enemy. However sometimes he didn't takes sides in conflicts despite it being clear who was/is on the side of right and good.
I note Ernie is in favour of Tagle, seems a reasonable choice who will continue Francis' progressive policies which really means slightly less conservative.
Me? I'm an agnostic and geologist but live in a Catholic society and I'm married to a Catholic. I've walked half a dozen pilgimages covering about 5000km and went to morning mass in Notre Dame recently. TJ has quoted an example of someone he felt had been ****ed up by the teaching, he's probably right. For every one who's ****ed up I suggest there are many who find comfort and strength in their faith. After all those walks with pilgrims I view personal faith quite positively but organised religion not so favourably - and the biggest argument I've had with a pilgrim was over Brexit or more precisely Lexit! 🙂
Why can't there be a love island style public elimination vote?
Is it too soon to ask why an all-loving, all-powerful god would ruin Easter for a billion of his followers?
After all those walks with pilgrims I view personal faith quite positively but organised religion not so favourably
I just think it's tragic for those who are brainwashed... religon in any form is just social poison. It has no place in modern society.
I reckon he met Vance and realised he'd failed, so gave up...
I can well believe that having to try to talk any form of sense with Vance means that he'll have been banging his head against a wall repeatedly. Probably died from the resultant brain haemorrhage.