Is that a technical term ?
Seems to be a term that is recognised in by developmental biologist.
If you ignore Andrew Gold in this video, Dr Emma Hilton explains the problem well, and I seem to remember a very in-depth explaination of something similar in this forum by someone more knowledgable than me on this same issue :
Is that Emma Hilton who's on the board of 'Sex-Matters, the anti trans charity?
(making note this is NOT a trans issue) I hate to throw terms like TERF out there but.... I don't consider her position to be unbiased, and even if she strongly believes her view of the science her disrespect for other humans (eg repeatedly misgendering transathletes in tweets and discussions) doesn't make me 'trust' that evidence particularly.
I'd go back to what I said in this thread https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/not-in-my-name-trans-athlete-bans/page/14/#post-13343684
DSD occurs in 1/1000-1/5000 of births. If it's a big advantage how come DSD women aren't winning far more of the medals. It might be a genetic advantage, but all athletes have genetic advantage over the rest of the population.
If it’s a big advantage how come DSD women aren’t winning far more of the medals
it’s really an advantage in sports where explosive power, rather than endurance, are required. Boxing being an obvious example, sprinting being another. Typically DSD only becomes evident at puberty due to amenorrhea.
There are multiple forms of DSD, but the biological definition of female is clear. Absence of Y chromosome and presence of Barr body (which blocks all but one of the X chromosomes). So you can, for example, have up to five X chromosomes (with four Barr bodies). The DSD of interest for XY is where you cannot process testosterone into the more potent and virilizing (masculinizing) dihydrotestosterone due to a mutation in an enzyme called 5-alpha reductase. This means the sexualisation of the embryo into male does not take place, or is incomplete. The later anabolic effects of testosterone through puberty may still be evident, and this is where a sporting advantage may become evident. There are various grades of sensitivity to androgens from complete insensitivity to mild
I am of the opinion that the anabolic benefits of testosterone through puberty outweigh other arguments. I don’t differentiate between trans and DSD, in that regard. I think the science is well understood, but individual rights are another matter! I have no idea of the genetic status of the athletes concerned, nor should I have. It was years later that Caster Semana was “outed” as DSD with 5-ARD. Whilst she is genetically male, I have no issues considering her female (as does she), but I don’t think her records should stand.
BTW, if you are being treated for enlarged prostate, you may be prescribed a drug that also blocks 5-alpha reductase, to limit the processing of testosterone, which is a growth factor for the prostate cells. They are also used commonly for hair loss, as the dihydro form is responsible for male pattern baldness. Finasteride is the generic name.
I am of the opinion that the anabolic benefits of testosterone through puberty outweigh other arguments. I don’t differentiate between trans and DSD, in that regard.
I agree with pretty much everything you said, until there. While the arguments are still nuanced, I'm not going there for the TG/hormone taking or surpressing athlete.....but these athletes have not 'chosen' to have this genetic difference, any more than Jonas chose to have massive aerobic capability or Usain Bolt chose to have an abnormally long stride length. All convey advantages in their sport, and the rest of the field - well, bad luck to be around at the same time.
Raygun’s performance was massively disrespectfull to actual athletes that have trained hard for the olympic ganmes, and all the talented dancers that wanted to represent Australia, but lost somehow to her limited talents that managed to get her selected.
Gunn ranked 2nd in the Open B-girl Ranking in 2022 and topped the ranking in 2023 in Australia as well as winning or coming in the top three at many Australian breaking events over the past five to ten years.She represented Australia at the World Breaking Championships in Paris (2021), Seoul (2022), and Leuven (2023).In 2023, she won the Oceania Breaking Championships, securing her spot in the 2024 Summer Olympics according to the qualifying rules.......................
Indeed, but there are plenty of genetic disadvantages that preclude being competitive too, some from the womb. I probably have a few myself. CTT arrived at the classification of Female and Open. Whilst Jonas may have a better lung capacity - and age on his side, I think it reasonable to presume he, like me, is XY and genetically male. Hence from a sex basis we are competing as equals.
Sadly, by the time DSD has been recognised in a professional athlete, the chances are they’ve already had much of the benefits, and testosterone suppression will not have the magnitude of normalising effect desired. After all, that’s likely how they stood out in the first place.
It’s a minefield for sure, but I think the science is well established. The ethics and implementation are not for me to decide (thank goodness). Different bodies have different opinions, but CTT, BC went with “Open” and Female, denying at least one trans cyclist a possible career in woman’s racing. Other sports have followed for trans, and the logical extension is to biological sex. That many other athletes with DSD.
delightfully joyful atmophere.
Won’t argue with that! Lots I’m looking forward to, but particularly the archery, Phoebe Paterson Pine is from Cirencester, not too far north from me, so local-ish, but I’m really looking forward to seeing Sheetal Devi, one of the team from India. She was born without arms, her ability to shoot at Olympic level at 50 metres absolutely shames my meagre abilities.
Looking forward to this too!
