[Closed] The lad that's been stabbed and killed whilst robbing!

@drac ex-infantry, have killed and quite happy to do it again. Using a keyboard to bludgeon someone would make quite a novel twist though 🙂

My update is I would simply batter the person/persons.
There in my home not invited but broken in.

I know il think what I would say in the courts in my defence, then make them a cup of tea

*crosses gwj72's remote house off list*

wow samuri certain amount of honesty there.

Usual load of pish being spoken on here on this

I go back to this

TandemJeremy - Member
Find a single case where someone has been prosecuted for defending themselves and their property.

You are allowed to use reasonable force to protect yourself, you loved ones and your property and reasonable force is what a jury of your peers think is reasonable

And I have a lot of space to bury bodies too.

burglary = bad , killing = bad, two wrongs dont make a right.

I think they do, according to the king james bible...

Wasn't Tony Martin the victim of repeated burglaries before he shot the fleeing intruder, and frustrated because the police reaction had been poor?

I've run out. Could you bury a couple of mine for me ?

Why is it always vegans that end up being serial killers?

Must be the hard wired desire for meat.

Agree with most on this. Live by the sword....

They are breaking the law by entering your property and putting the lives of you and your family at risk. A complete shoeing and a few shotgun pellets in their arse as they are leaving is reasonable force in my book.

I got burgled a few years ago, we all slept throughout and didnt hear a thing. Afterwards, I made the usual comments of wishing I'd have woke up, they'd have got a right shoeing, etc, but you know what? - I think I'd have just shat meself. It's one thing being a hardcase on the internet, and a completely different situation when it happens in real life. I have little or no sympathy for anybody injured whilst robbing or burgling people, you shouldnt be doing it in the first place. Just dont know if I'm the sort of bloke to do the injuring.

@drac ex-infantry, have killed and quite happy to do it again

STEADY THERE FELLA
If you have to then fair enough, but "quite happy to"?
You're just giving fuel to the military haters there buddy.
Me, well I've got a great big english bull terrier. We'd mount a coordinated attack. 😀

Man trained to do killinz likes killinz.

We are looking at this as citizens.

I think this is what the US police refer to as a "killing" as opposed to a homicide e.g. no civilians involved.

The homeowner seemed a normal bloke from what I can gather this morning. Obviously just a hard bastard who takes no shit once you cross his threshold, literally 😯

Thing is, I can't understand what the problem was...it sounded like four guys broke in carrying a Middle Eastern dessert. Now, I know it's not that popular anymore, but killing to death is a bit overboard.

carrying a Middle Eastern dessert

killing to death

??

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Four guys tried to surprise the owner with Baklava didn't they?

And he killed one of them to death...maybe he preferred Turkish Delight?

Junkyard:

possessions are not worth more than lifes

Really?

My toe nail clippings are worth more to me than the lives of theiving scumbags that put on balaclavas and try to force their way into my house.
Sorry, but some people just don't deserve to be alive.

burglary = bad , killing = bad, two wrongs dont make a right.
I think they do, according to the king james bible...

38Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:

39But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

wrightyson:
The homeowner seemed a normal bloke from what I [s]can gather[/s] read in The Sun this morning. Obviously just a hard bastard who takes no shit once you cross his threshold, literally

...also, I don't think anyone would accept some shit, literally, crossing threshold or not.

Be a right mess.

balaclavas

Oops...****! 😳

[img] http://wlw3.typepad.com/.a/6a0120a96b3d3e970b0134887ba0d8970c-500wi [/img]

Thegreattape, it is a burglary. You cannot rob people in a house. Burglary occurs the minute they enter the property without permission of owner and intend to steal (or list of others) so it occurs before any potential robbery. If they have weapons if becomes an aggravated burglary which I imagine is what this actually is. The reason post offices or shops are robberies not burglaries is because they haven't entered as a tresspasser. Simple!! Burglary not robbery.

The worst thing is that the burgular had the same surname as me and I only live down the road. He is no relation, i've checked!

this is exactly the reasons i've set up my house like a cross between the 'home alone' films and 'funhouse'.... if somebody breaks in and gets past the paint cans on ropes, firecrackers and other booby (hehehehe booby!) traps then they get a chance to ride in the go-karts and win an alba boom-box.

@drac ex-infantry, have killed and quite happy to do it again

STEADY THERE FELLA
If you have to then fair enough, but "quite happy to"?

Bad turn of phrase. I'd much rather not shoot anyone, it's not exactly fun.
But in a small remote house with valuables upstairs, it's highly likely we would come into contact. And I am ready for foxes!

The son and his partner have been released without charge apparently and only the father is still in custody.

Reports have suggested the 4 men were wearing balaclavas and at least one was carrying a knife. Seems like a case of appropriate force when faced with greater numbers some of whom are possibly armed with knives themselves.

One less low life to pay benefits and fund jail time for.

The worst thing is that the burgular had the same surname as me

Dunno if that is the [i]worse[/i] thing about all this....

You are allowed to use reasonable force to protect yourself, you loved ones and your property and reasonable force is what a jury of your peers think is reasonable

There is a general misconception, fuelled by the right wing press, that if you defend yourself in your home "vigorously" then you will go to prison. There is little evidence for this and the high profile case above was extreme. Tony Martin sat in wait IIRC for the intruder and IMO that is going too far hence he was prosecuted. Even then he received a great deal of support from the public.
A more recent case involved two brothers chasing a man down the street and seriously assaulting him, again possibly going too far however they and their family had been through a terrible ordeal. They were released largely after a public outcry.

My brother in law is a criminal barrister and a good friend of mine is a judge (not sure how that happened 8O) and they both talk a lot of IMO "common sense" in the vast majority of cases bad people are punished and "good" people arent. As TJ comments its about "peers" and most judges and lawyers are "peers" also. Its in nobodies interest to prosecute people defending their property as long as they dont go too far and I suspect you would have to go a long way to exceed the general publics perception of "too far"
For that reason I keep a large Maglite torch at the side of my bed and if I wake in the night and hear an intruder (unlike some above) I would be terrified but my overwhelming priority would be to defend my family and if in any confusion my maglite came into contact with his head I dont think a court in the land would put me in prison.

Indeed surfer - I have never actually seen a case of someone defending themselves being prosecuted.

No one on this thread has been able to come up with one either.

I think that Mr Martin had pretty much lost it by that point. He'd had a LOT of shit from these criminals over a long period.
When the police are unable to help you for such a long time something's going to give. Yes, a pump action shotgun is overkill (excuse the pun) but a person cannot continue to live like that.

Glitch bump

I'm in the mood for killinz.

shall I get you the JLS tour dates?

As regards the robbing/burglary comments, I can't see the local villains, saying to each other let's go out burglaring, nope they go out robbin' or thievin' innit. Thats what I meant in my thread title!

The latest news is the the dead burglar was already on bail having been arrested for another burglary in the Midlands earlier this month.

Sounds like Peter Flanagan performed a public service.

you wanted killinz?

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Surfer it sounds like you are talking about the job in high Wycombe which I earlier posted a link too, in which case they were found guilty of GBH, originally given a prison sentence but it was reduced on appeal to a community order. So again it was decided that chasing them down teh street wasn't reasonable force. That is the issue here what is "reasonable", hitting someone with a bat whilst they run away isn't deemed "reasonable".

Wrighyson, you'd be surprised they know they are out burgling and some of these burglars are quite intelligent, the thick ones go shoplifting! plus in 8 years I've never known a burglar, burglar with a balaclava unless they knew the occupants, ie it was over drugs or something like that.

shall I get you the JLS tour dates?

I will watch each concert and do the killinz with a JLS theme after each one.

I know someone who caught a burglar in his kitchen. He smacked him over the head with a set of those old-fashioned iron kitchen scales, breaking the burglar's jaw. The burglar was unarmed. The police were not in the slightest bit interested in prosecuting him for the assault.

So short of lying in wait with a gun, and shooting someone in the back as they run away, I would suggest that "reasonable force" has a pretty wide scope.

you have boss morals Big Respects to you innit
i think everyone agrees with you but it becomes unreasonable if he then jumps on top of him and continues to hit him over and over again with said scales.

Surfer it sounds like you are talking about the job in high Wycombe which I earlier posted a link too, in which case they were found guilty of GBH, originally given a prison sentence but it was reduced on appeal to a community order. So again it was decided that chasing them down teh street wasn't reasonable force. That is the issue here what is "reasonable", hitting someone with a bat whilst they run away isn't deemed "reasonable".

Thats exactly my point. In spite of the fact that the law (and most reasonable people) came to the conclusion that they went too far they were still not imprisoned which reinforces my point that using quite a significant amount of force to defend your family and property will onlt ever get you into trouble if you exceed "accepted" boundaries by a significant amount. In the above case they almost killed the intruder and beat him continuously far after he ceased to be a threat. Even in that case there was no appetite to lock them up!
I just wanted to argue against the myth that if an intruder enters you home you are only allowed to punch him on the nose. In reality if he was found at the bottom of the stairs with 4 broken ribs and facial injuries then nobody from the Police to the CPS would be particularly interested.

Death by the scales of justice!! Teh irony!!

i think everyone agrees with you but it becomes unreasonable if he then jumps on top of him and continues to hit him over and over again with said scales.

I think that's right. He attacked the burglar with an improvised weapon, that happened to be at hand, and injured him to the extent that he no longer posed a threat. If he'd bludgeoned the burglar to death, having already knocked him out, that would have been a different matter.

This seems like common sense to me, as I'm sure it would to any jury.