Yes, of course Zulu. You carry on love.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/this-dup-deal-turns-the-tables-on-gerry-adams-8cfcw25wl?shareToken=11f220e4265c0a6c56a9ae1b9563e589
I wrote something similar above in this thread. The DUP have won have won £800 for each NI resident while Sinn Fein have done **** all. Not that it matters electorally, I don't think there are many floating voters in NI.
If the SNP & Plaid Cumru think it's worth taking Westminster Seats, and UKIP reckon it's worth taking seats in the EU then it would seem worthwhile for Sinn Fein to take their seats.
The oath isn't such a significant impediment - loads of Anti-Monarchist MPs get around it and then there's the offer for them to write their own oath:
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/politics/sinn-fein-asked-to-rewrite-queens-oath-and-take-westminster-seats-28557933.html
Sinn Fein's voters are massively against taking seats in Westminster, that's the "impediment"
I can't see anything in that Times article thats 'bigoted' to quote darsy.....or is said poster anti British, freedom of the press???
Sinn Fein's voters are massively against taking seats in Westminster
...and they're wrong IMHO, for the reasons I state.
OOB
Its been their consistent approach - part of their platform
Its been their consistent approach - part of their platform
...and they're wrong IMHO, for the reasons I state.
...and they're wrong IMHO, for the reasons I state.
I 'get' why they refuse to do so. As republicans that stands on the idea of not recognising British rule it would be wrong in their view to do so. Not that helpful in the current circumstances but at least they are sticking to their [s]guns[/s] views.
How will this deal work if the Stormont talks fail? My understanding is that if they fail then Northern Ireland may end up being back under direct rule from London. So then it would seem that current government would be ruling whilst being propped up by a party with no power except the ability to blackmail the goverment?
How will this deal work if the Stormont talks fail? My understanding is that if they fail then Northern Ireland may end up being back under direct rule from London. So then it would seem that current government would be ruling whilst being propped up by a party with no power except the ability to blackmail the goverment?
No idea. When all these processes were agreed we hadn't had a hung parliament for yonks so they perhaps didn't anticipate a situation where one of the 'sides' in NI held the balance of Power in Parliament.
Meanwhile if Sinn Fein object to all this too strongly they'd be arguing against £1bn going to NI!
It's a bit of a mess for all concerned as far as I can see, apart from the DUP who are probably quite grateful to have a £1bn good news story to offset the Energy subsidy omnishambles story.
NI reverts to direct rules shortly unless they agree a powersharing deal again. Considering the reasons it fell apart then its highly likely this will happen then its going tobe very difficult if not impossible for the tories to show the impartiality they must have under the GFA
Marching seasons going to be interesting / unpleasant as well. Expect a unionist attempt to march where they are banned.
tjagainMarching seasons going to be interesting / unpleasant as well. Expect a unionist attempt to march where they are banned.
Same as every other year then.
outofbreath - Member
Its been their consistent approach - part of their platform...and they're wrong IMHO, for the reasons I state.
Sinn Fein taking their seats would seriously erode any credibility with fringe republicans. Granted, they are already sell outs to some hardcore republicans and dissident sympathisers but by taking their oaths they it would be a massive propaganda coup for dissidents.
ruth dudley edwards. 😆 youse serious?
i give that the same weight i would do if Tommy Robinson told me something was not racistI can't see anything in that Times article thats 'bigoted' to quote darsy
He did not say anything to indicate this he seemed to exercise his right to free speech which you will, no doubt, respect and support......or is said poster anti British, freedom of the press???
Worth a read:
That Times article is one the most unbalanced & biased pieces I've ever read!
Did you write it yourself Tory Boi?
There are many worse people than Orangemen, and IRA supporters are high on the list.
Yeah, because the Orangemen are such fing saints right!
What a load of bollox.
yeah that times author was absolutely certain that Gerry Adams would immediately take his seats at westminster in event of a hung parliament
shes full o shite 😉
kimbersshes full o shite
POSTED 11 HOURS AGO
Hilariously so. Novel to see that an article on The Times website contains more lies, half truths, straw men and whataboutery than an average STW thread.
And yet more trouble. Amendment to the queens speech allowing women from NI to have abortions in England on the NHS. DUP will not like this one bit. there has already been trouble over this previously when the DUP tried to get the scots NHS to stop providing abortions for women from NI ( can't remember if free of charge - think it was)
Significant number of pro choice tories will vote for this amendment and I expect all the opposition to do so.
the amendment is likely to pass and then the DUP will have to vote in favour of the queens speech ( under the deal) containing this amendment that they cannot vote for by their own standards.
I see this as the first of many such things designed to split the DUP off from the tories
the amendment is likely to pass and then the DUP will have to vote in favour of the queens speech ( under the deal) containing this amendment that they cannot vote for by their own standards.
Yup but anything remotely pro-choice will *really* piss the Catholics off which will be a big compensation for the DUP. Nothing both sides like better than winding the other side up.
I see this as the first of many such things designed to split the DUP off from the tories
Yup. The scope for deeply embarrasing the DUP and the Tories is endless and we're going to see it daily.
Now Theresa has found the magic money tree in the tax evasion forest, Scotland wants some too.
The Scottish Government is raising a formal dispute over DUP [s]bribe[/s] special payment on the grounds that it does affect the Barnett formula. This is because it is designated for assisting with devolved matters.
[url= https://news.gov.scot/news/uk-governmentdup-deal#.WVS2AcE9doA.facebook ]UK Government/DUP deal[/url]
Will the Welsh follow suit?
Yup but anything remotely pro-choice will *really* piss the Catholics off which will be a big compensation for the DUP.
actually sinn fein arent as backwards as the DUP on that one
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-31774791
Yup but anything remotely pro-choice will *really* piss the Catholics off which will be a big compensation for the DUP. Nothing both sides like better than winding the other side up.
actually sinn fein arent as backwards as the DUP on that one
Not sure what SF have got to do with it - they're not the Vatican.
I haven't done a poll of Christian aquaintances, but IME Catholics are more anti-Abortion than protestants.
In party terms a quick google suggests DUP and SF tried to duck FFA as an issue. With DUP trying to delay until after elections and SF claiming they hadn't got a policy on it. ...but that's irrelevant to my point.
actually Sinn Fein aren't as backwards as the DUP on that one
To be fair there are medievel warlords who aren't as backward as the DUP on that one.
So... given the events of the last few weeks, is everyone expecting Stormont to be up and running again this afternoon then?
Now that Arlene and the DUP - who caused its suspension in the first place through their corruption and incompetence - have just been bunged 1.5 billion quid, and made Theresa's Tory government its bitch?
I mean... why would any of the other parties have any doubt as to the impartiality with which they'll all be treated? No... I'm sure it'll all be fine.....
Not sure what SF have got to do with it - they're not the Vatican.
but they are THE catholic party of NI so a good bellweather of the community
I haven't done a poll of Christian aquaintances, but IME Catholics are more anti-Abortion than protestants.
and the DUP arent your average prodestants, why were they formed again? oh yeah
but they are THE catholic party of NI so a good bellweather of the community
and the DUP arent your average prodestants, why were they formed again? oh yeah
I'd strongly argue that neither the DUP or Sinn Fein represent catholic and Protestants *at all*. They're both nasty small minded bigots who have *far* more in common with each other than the typical proponents of the branches of Christianity they consider themselves to be part of. You just don't get Catholics and Protestants in Southampton flying flags/painting kerbs with the primary aim of winding the other side up.
Binners news reports seem to be saying a deal is being done. But then we have seen that before
Looks like the tories are going to accept the amendment to avoid a defeat - but that means the DUP are going to have to vote for a pro choice measure. 🙂
edit
Or they are going to agree the funding deal so the pro choice tories don't rebel and the amendment does not pass a vote
outofbreath - Member
but they are THE catholic party of NI so a good bellweather of the community
and the DUP arent your average prodestants, why were they formed again? oh yeah
I'd strongly argue that neither the DUP or Sinn Fein represent catholic and Protestants *at all*. They're both nasty small minded bigots who have *far* more in common with each other than the typical proponents of the branches of Christianity they consider themselves to be part of. You just don't get Catholics and Protestants in Southampton flying flags/painting kerbs with the primary aim of winding the other side up.
Fine grasp of the irish situation you have there! 😆
And the Tories have conceded that any NI woman wanted to come to England for a termination will have this funded - a humiliating climbdown to avoid the amendment being passed so to save the DUP blushes / save the deal.
save the DUP blushes
I know little of parliamentary procedure but surely the DUP will still have to vote for the entire bill including the amendment?
Wasn't DUP, SDLP and and SF policy on abortions pretty much identical? They are certainly all opposed to what we have on the mainland.
Wasn't DUP, SDLP and and SF policy on abortions pretty much identical?
All pretty backward tbh , but SF would allow it it in cases of severe foetal abnormality &rape? (When they adopted this position several SF members resigned) But DUP oppose even that, not sure about SDLP
At least May's dirty deal with the DUP is shining a light on just how repressive NI is on certain issues, can see Labour using the opportunity to force through a lot more progressive motions, much to the ire of the extreme right wingers in DUP & even Tory party
My understanding is they are going to do it but not use legislation to do it - ie they result will be the same but the DUP do not need to vote on anything as it wont be in the speech
Greening said that the Equalities Office would fund the payments for the terminations with additional funding for health services. “This will mean no English health service user is disadvantaged as a result of this change,” she wrote. “Funding for the services will be made available through the government Equalities Office, allowing the Department of Health to commission services in England for those from Northern Ireland.“The supreme court judgment made clear that we have the power to make these arrangements. The government’s position continues to be that we want to see safe abortion services provided for women who may need them – within the bounds of the law.”
From the guardian
So hardly the political weapon it was supposed to be eh ? Trivially defeated. All such amendments are going to go the same way. The Queens Speech is going to pass and on we go.
No extra money for Scotland TJ, the Tories will have thought of this. Of course Sturgeon etc will try and make something of it but they are doomed to failure.
Ah, I didn't realise that there was wider context for this:
https://care.org.uk/news/latest-news/abortion-judgement-overturned-northern-ireland-abortion-law-not-incompatible-human
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-40444310
Appeal court in Belfast today overruled a judgement that NI abortion ban was breach of human rights law, and that it was an issue for the executive to decide
jambalaya - Member
So hardly the political weapon it was supposed to be eh ?
In your hard on for cheering Maybot sidestepping a potentially divisive vote
You missed the bit where the lives of potentially 1000s of women were just improved. That's a win by most people's standards
If you want to look at it in a political context, humiliating for teh DUP as its something they opposed
good for Labour, showing they are a force for good in parliament
The Tories look weak being dictated to by the opposition and forced to do something that the nasty party wouldnt bother with
when they "trivially fail" at the VERY first hurdle its hard to be optimistic for the future.Trivially defeated
It also shows how difficult it is for these tow parties to be bed fellows as they have some very different ideas on many things
It really is not going to be better or easier than this bill and they are already compromising to avoid defeat
How many amendments will there be?
I predict 150.
Actually, no, maybe 75-100.
Hmmm...no, much less than that.
jambalaya - Member
the Tories will have thought of this.
That's cute, jambs thinks there's a plan! 😆
First test of the DUP deal. First humiliating climbdown from the government, Thin edge of the wedge driven in with a nice big hammer
You do realise that the DUP tried to get Scotland to ban NI women from having abortions in Scotland? The DUP will be very angry about this. What price will they ask for for this?
Ninfan - you do realise the two issues are separate? The belfast court ruling is on providing abortion in NI and has been ongoping for a while. This is about the funding of abortion for NI women in the UK.
You missed the bit where the lives of potentially 1000s of women were just improved.
You think jambot gives a toss about that?
This is going to be fun to watch. Sure the DUP might not have to vote on it now, but it's just been introduced by a government they have a deal with. I'm not sure I'd describe that as a trivial defeat - but then I have a reasonable grasp on reality. In any case, at the first attempt Labour are driving government policy.
That's cute, jambs thinks there's a plan!
But there is, it's called the HofGD Strategy ("Hang on for Grim Death") 8)
@kimbers yes its a good thing but that's not why the Labour Party introduced it is it ?
Coalition / minority government is always a mess with the capacity for strange results like the Lib Dems supporting £9k tuition fees.
You think jambot gives a toss about that?
What improves lives is living in a financially stable and viable country, more Germany/Switzerland less Greece. Corbyn/McDonnell would make the incompetence of Brown post 2007 looks like the merest blip
its a good thing but that's not why the Labour Party introduced it is it ?
Yes that is why they introduced it
The fact it harmed the Tories new alliance was undoubtedly a consideration / pleasant bonus but they did not do it just to piss of tories/annoy the DUP
[quote=jambalaya ]What improves lives is living in a financially stable and viable country
Ah, not one which is attempting to cut ties with its closest trading partners then?
@aracer as you know I am firmly of the belief that our best trading opportunities lie far from Europe. We are a very very good customer for them, the other way round really not so much
I know what your beliefs are, but to get to the nirvana you want involves a period of instability somewhat greater and longer than that of a Corbyn/McDonnell government (even if you are right about that). Or are you going to deny the current situation?
Corbyn/McDonnell would make the incompetence of Brown post 2007 looks like the merest blip
Based on what?
tbh we all know it will be economically worse in the short run - even you accepted that you failed to define exactly what you meant or how long it lasted- its just that some think it is a price worth paying
only the truly optimistic [ or deranged] think we will be better off ditching a free trade deal with our biggest trading partner ,whom we trade 43% of our exports with and are critical to our supply lines, and will reach economic nirvana this way
not one report, that was not written by a brexie, agrees with your assessment NOT ONE.
It was a backbench amendment by a Labour MP not the official opposition amendment, like the one for staying in the single market which has meant Corbyn has had to fire another 5 ish front benchers for voting against policy.
you keep clutching at those straws
one day the tories will realise you cannot defend the tories by simply just attacking corbyn you need to explain how string and stable she is and how wonderfully string and stable the agreement is with the DUP
SO one vote and one compromise is what you have to work with so far
Go on give it your best shot
What improves lives is living in a financially stable and viable country
So, the women who wanted an abortion but couldn't get one should have just shut up and concentrated on their financial security. You really are a piece of work 🙁
[quote=jambalaya ]What improves lives is living in a financially stable and viable country
With a strong and stable leader, rather than a weak and wobbly one
the northern irish are financially better off as a result of weak and wobbly so ever cloud eh
Maybe all those disabled people driven to suicide by Tory policy forgot how viable the economy was?
A massive increase in homelessness is surely a sign of a strong economy.
Junkyard - lazarusthe northern irish are financially better off as a result of weak and wobbly so ever cloud eh
Weak and wobbly was personally responsible for burning £490 million so her church and orange order buddies could feather their nests. She also shares responsibility (along with her party) for accepting a bribe in order to support the leave campaign - effectively cutting off at least £2billion a year Northern Ireland receives from the EU.
But yeah, never mind all that. Better off. FFS.
The right wingers on here trying to spin this are hilarious. Its a humiliation for both the tories and the DUP.
We all love cats, so I thought of this interesting question for jamba, ninfan and chewy. What colour is this cat:
[img] 
[/img]
Hint: Theresa says it is black.
It looks strong.
IS it a dog?
is not really its the first salvo and it showed the divisions which will likely embolden people and probably lead to more defeats and then humiliationIts a humiliation for both the tories and the DUP.
Oh I think it is Junkyard. May has to find a load more money from her magic money tree to ensure these women can get terminations and creat policy on the hoof. the DUP will be furious as they have tried to prevent NI women travelling to Scotland for terminations.
Sure she avoided losing the vote but at what cost?
May has to find a load more money from her magic money tree to ensure these women can get terminations and creat policy on the hoof. the DUP will be furious as they have tried to prevent NI women travelling to Scotland for terminations.
Surely if they are getting them done in Scotland then it means that Sturgeon needs to find the money to pay for it, not [s]Maggie[/s] May?
Woosh - NI women have been travelling to Scotland for terminations - and usually the scots NHS paid for it. this has been going on for years. The DUP tried to stop it.
Now after Mays humiliating climbdown the english NHS will also pay for women from NI to travel to England for terminations
NI women have been travelling to Scotland for terminations - and usually the scots NHS paid for it. this has been going on for years.
They certainly weren't funding it as of last year:
Are we including the £100m + taxpayer expense of the last shambolic election in May's tab?
No wonder the debt goes up so high under Tory govs, it's more a result of their incompetence than their policies !
When is someone going to put her out of our misery?
When is someone going to put her out of our misery?
When someones ambition outweighs their common sense or the political scene changes.
So about 3 days? 😆
When is someone going to put her out of our misery?
Just before the next election.
All the bad press is going to be attached to her. Then she'll be allowed to bail out at the last minute and someone more popular[1] will take over with a clean sheet.
It's going to be an excruciating few months or years for her. ...and a humiliating party conference.
Unlike everyone else in the UK I have some sympathy for her. Her decisions weren't actually bad. Calling an election when she had a tiny majority and Labour was on the back foot was a good call IMHO. Sacrificing a few seats to sort out social care was a good call too IMHO and can only have been done for the best of reasons. Unfortunately, in hindsight it was all utterly disasterous for party and country. 😀
She did warn us that if we didn't vote for her there would be a coalition of chaos and she was right.
[1] Although no obvious candidates spring to mind.
Journalist: "What could possibly derail your government's programme, Prime Minister?"
Harold Macmillan: "Events, dear boy. Events..."