I would....perhaps vote for SWP to get Labour to swing a little more left - but here's the kicker.
If I/we did that and Labour went further left they'd end up losing seats to the SWP or the Tories like the Tories are with UKIP and Labour......and my line of reasoning has always been.....anything to keep the conservatives out. Labours policies are just enough to the left of the conservatives for me to go with the safe option.
For the record I'm a slightly left wing libertarian so none of the parties including the SWP appeal to me.
What would labour policies looked like if 1 million of there supporters switches to SWP?
I take it that would just be the blokes?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2013/mar/09/socialist-workers-party-rape-kangaroo-court
I can't see the Labour Womens Network embracing SWP policies anytime soon!
I'm a little surprised that link didn't come up as the first response
The current system relies on people believing that a protest vote is a wasted vote.
Not a mistake that's likely to be repeated by anyone who voted Lib Dem last time around. That's what worries me a bit. Voting for someone who makes all the right noises, making all sorts of claims, as they know they're never going to be voted in. Then when they find themselves in power, turning out to be a completely different animal altogether from what you voted for.
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So, somewhat perversely, I wonder if (I agree with) Nick could have not only wiped out his own party (lets take that as read) but scuppered the chances of the like of the Greens as a protest vote? Just a thought
Besides, it's an example of how to influence mainstream decision making. Not an actual suggestion.
You vote for who you want to vote for.but if your unhappy with the current state of affairs you need to do something other than sustaining it.
Yeh, Lid Dems are screwed. On one hand they have one of there balls under a Tory heel, on the other there voters are stamping hard and fast.
They should never have got into bed with the Tories. What did they really think would happen?
Good lord, look at the shambles that was voting reform.
Voting for someone who makes all the right noises, making all sorts of claims, as they know they're never going to be voted in
Dont worry Nigel means what he says and wont let you down 😉
OK stopping now
perhaps vote for SWP to get Labour to swing a little more left - but here's the kicker.
I think th ekicker is they knwo their core vote anre there and unlikely to jump ship to the Tories or from tory to labour so they can largely ignore them [ the rise of UKIP means CMD can no longer do this] and concentrate in getting the floating voters who swap sides as they are the ones that will get them in power. Its one of the main reasons their is little to choose between the parties but for flavouring tbh - one slightly more pro strivers and enterprise the other slightly more helping hand but basically the same on many issues
They should never have got into bed with the Tories. What did they really think would happen?
to be fiar to them they had little choice as this was the only way of getting a stable govt without another election
What they should have done is stand by their principles and actually negotiate well to achieve thier goals as the Tories could not rule without them.What they seem to have done is capitualate and get the odd crumb from the table as we see mainly Tory policies
they have limited them re the NHS, Europe and affected taxation re raising of the limit to 10 k. however they will always be remembered for ignoring that pledge and voting for the cuts they opposed in opposition and in manifesto
I think they were so keen to show they could giovern they forgot that what they did was mor eimportant than the fact they were doing it [ I also think clegg is to the right of his own party whihc is left of centre imho and he is right of centre]
Bwaarp, I love the idea of left-wing libertarianism. It's sounds like an oxymoron, but isn't of course. But be careful, you get flamed on here if you do not pigeon hole yourself according to traditional and wel-defined party politics 😉
Good for Ernie and others sticking up for the poor old greens. This is a party that actually has an MP and yet gets buggar all media coverage, versus UKIP whose coverage is out of proportion with its "actual" political status or representation. Now why is that?
I heard a great description of UKIP the other day
The BNP for people who shop at Marks and Spencer 😆
Now why is that?
Election results
UKIP - 919546 votes
Green - 285616 votes
Junky, To be fair to Farage - thats one area where he's done something remarkable - mobilised the 'don't votes' to come out and support his party, as well as taking from all three main parties (not just disaffected Tories)
The BNP for people who shop at Marks and Spencer
Now that's a keeper
Good spot piemonster! But even then?
Good spot piemonster! But even then?
Constituency boundaries?
Bwaarp, I love the idea of left-wing libertarianism. It's sounds like an oxymoron, but isn't of course. But be careful, you get flamed on here if you do not pigeon hole yourself according to traditional and wel-defined party politic
Fair point. I don't really where I fit in though, I have left wing social ideals, right wing views of corporations (as in they're not always bad) and a streak of libertarian philosophy thrown in.
😉 I get the boundary bit! By "even then", I meant that even considering the difference in votes that comparative coverage of UKIP v Greens seems somewhat out of kilter!
You have sent me off for some new reading with LWL Bwaarp. Interesting that Libertarianism is more commonly associated with RW politics but where it exists in a LW form tends to be associated with anarchism. I am sure there is some interesting middle ground! Are you John Rawls in disguise (obviously not as he is dead, but...)?
I meant that even considering the difference in votes that comparative coverage of UKIP v Greens seems somewhat out of kilter!
Given much of the media reporting on UKIP has been in the context of recent by-elections (Middlesborough, Croydon, Eastleigh) and that the Greens didnt field a candidate in any one of them whereas UKIP placed 2nd, 3rd and 2nd respectively in the same, and that polling is showing twice as many nationally favouring UKIP than "others" into which is bundled the Green party, I think it's not surprising that a "freakish"* win of a parliamentary seat against the odds of the first past the post system does not necessarily put the Greens on political/media par with UKIP.
*we're talking brighton here folks 😉
UKIP hit the headlines a lot because of the knock on effect towards the Tory filth bags in power. That and they are all racists, yes all of them.
That and saving kittens isn't big news. The greens need to get out more in masks and white overalls and trash some valuable scientific research that might help feed people in decades to come.
Well that's my honest and reasoned oNion on the matter. Well, some of it, perhaps....
I guess I should stop digging then!! Puts shovel back in shed and repairs hole.... 😉
Wish I had a shed, garages are good. But it's a direct link to the kitchen and..... Her
Mcmoonter really should set up a sideline business.
Democracy is well and truly getting a kicking:
The House of Commons have already approved the Justice and Security bill and only the House of Lords now stand in the way of secret courts...
Now it could just be coincidence, but the timing coincides quite well with the ongoing investigation into the 80s Establishment Paedophile ring which included members of the Cabinet, The Royal Household and a famous pop star...
Could it be that national security procedures revolve around blackmail as witnessed in the Kincora Scandal and they want to make sure the dark truth is never exposed?
I see that the BBC were obviously reading this - the leader of the Greens is on QT tonight. After all I said, I had better watch it!
Election resultsUKIP - 919546 votes
Green - 285616 votes
That is not necessarily an accurate indicator of popular support. At the last general election UKIP contested almost twice as many seats as the Greens, so you would expect them to have almost twice as many votes if their support was identical.
It does suggest that UKIP possibly enjoys roughly twice the support that the Greens do. However I don't think anyone could argue that the Greens receive half the media coverage that UKIP does. Or even a quarter.
EDIT : I withdraw that ^^ comment, it's quite impossible to conclude what popular support might be from just the total votes throughout the UK. I suspect that UKIP support was probably 4 times or more than the Greens in 2010. Although I maintain that the Greens don't get a quarter of the coverage in the press/TV that UKIP do.
Caroline Lucas wins a googlefight but this might be because it is a more common name.
Some Labour MEP did a QT analysis and Farage appeared 11 times to Lucas's 8, it is tricky because they tend to get wheeled out when issues they are associated with are making the news. Europe has probably been a bit more high profile recently.
Both parties have done remarkably well considering their meagre financial resources, the Greens have focused their spending on a few areas which means they have done much better in FPTP elections, whereas UKIP has fought on a broader front bringing success in PR elections, but very limited FPTP success.
Farage is funnier though.
However I don't think anyone could argue that the Greens receive half the media coverage that UKIP does
you're having a laugh!
do you remember the coverage prior to the Norwich North by election, when the BBC put forward the Greens as the fourth party, inviting them to a place in the televised hustings, but excluding UKIP
Same in the run up to the London mayoral elections - who was in the hustings? Jenny jones.
a QT analysis
To be fair QT tends to invite a lot of people who aren't from the 3 main parties, but that sort of exposure is not reflected throughout the media. As I say, imo the Greens don't get a quarter of the day to day coverage that UKIP does.
