[Closed] The end of books?

Real books are easier to flip forwards and back, just to clarify and check

My mrs is a bit of a technophobe and loves books. I bought her a kindle. She hasn't bought a book since. It's not that the kindle is more convenient, it's just easier to read.

I didn't need converting. Books will go the way of film cameras. They'll virtually disappear overnight and the few left will be for nerds and the pathologically contrary.

No chance. Can't be arsed with any more technology than is necessary and I love a good book, especially tatty well-read / second hand ones. I can't imagine loving an electronic piece of plastic tat.

It's not that the kindle is more convenient, it's just easier to read.

It's not that the kindle is more convenient, it's that you don't need a gods damned spare room to house all your books.

real books:
1) don't need a battery to be kept charged
2) still work if the dog chews them a bit
3) still work if the dog pees on them
4) still work if you drop them
5) still work if you drop them in the swimming pool
6) can be borrowed from a library
7) can be lent/given to somebody else when you've done with them

gadget for gadget's sake IMO

I am not a reader as such but use technical guides and codes at work daily.

I cannot get away with reading on screen for work and tend to print off and work from this as it is easier to flick back and forth or make notes.

That said, I have no problems with reading on forums and other online content.

MTFU time??

Don't agree 5th - just like CDs (and now the re-emergence of vinyl), digital isn't going to replace the real thing anytime soon.

Despite TV, we still listen to radios. Despite the internet, we still watch TV.

I was looking at getting a tablet PC, mainly as a book reader, I thought that it would be better for diagrams in technical books than a kindle, but when I looked at the price of ebooks it hardly seems worth it.

They are clearly exploiting the market, like music and movies, instead of enticing users in with reasonable prices and services they are driving the consumer to illegal markets.

Actually, another salient point.
My Bro in law works at a local junior school and they have bought a kindle per pupil as apparently it is easier for them to read from, bookmark etc.

Maybe it is the end for books? Who has recently had a photograph printed (Or a full 'film' of photographs, not just the good ones?)

[i]7) can be lent/given to somebody else when you've done with them[/i]

got a book off the GF that's at least 10th hand. shabby but still readable (and it's got handwritten notes on it)

Don't agree 5th - just like CDs (and now the re-emergence of vinyl), digital isn't going to replace the real thing anytime soon.

No chance. Can't be arsed with any more technology than is necessary and I love a good book, especially tatty well-read / second hand ones. I can't imagine loving an electronic piece of plastic tat.

This.

However, ebooks have their place for travelling where it would just be impractical to carry a case of books.

CharlieMungus - Member
Real books are easier to flip forwards and back, just to clarify and check

this

JamesO and John Drummer - + Many

Also, if I leave a book on an aeroplane, I rather hope someone has a good read. If I left an e-book reader, I'd be very out of pocket and rather miffed.

Books are ace.

As much as I see it would be great to have something compact to take on holiday with you, I wouldn't fancy leaving a kindle on the beach whilst I went for a swim. No such problem with a paperback

Electronic hyper-availability isn't going to kill the book - if anything, it's made yer actual old-school reading even [i]more[/i] of a pleasure.

Edit: I had to say it twice, for good measure.

I think the comparison between Vinyl / CD and Books / eReaders is a bit different.

Most people didn't own decent record players back in the 80's so the difference in sound quality between vinyl and CD was night and day. It was also easier to access tracks and skip between them - and you didn't have to get out of your seat every 20 minutes to flip sides!

Books are a visual, touchy feely thing though, which electronic devices can't replicate.

Friend of mine who devours ebooks tells me he can't remember who wrote any of them or even what they were called, because he doesn't have the cover/spine in his face or lying about around the place for a week while he reads.

Books won't die out, if anything it might mean less pulp paperbacks but I predict an increased demand for beautifully presented and bound volumes to provide for our asthetic whims and satisfaction.

Have a look at vinyl sales now compared to their peak, the pathetic trickle of sales are the just nerds and the pathologically contrary.

There was an excellent article in one of the national papers recently about the philosophical problems with the Kindle. IIRC, these include the nature of ownership (you don't actually [i]own[/i] an ebook on a Kindle), and interactivity.

From an academic point of view, you can't really engage the book in a 'dialogue' if you don't have margins. That makes something like an ebook less than ideal. Many of the books I use are marked up with pencil - something that really does enable a type of 'conversation' with the text.

In fact, I have an entire library's worth of books in PDF form on my hard drive, but I will still buy many of the same volumes in hard copy.

And an eBook won't fix a wonky table ( unless the adjustment required is the thickness of a Kindle).

[url= http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2011/dec/02/beautiful-book-covers ]A year of beautiful books[/url].

I have not read from a kindle but when reading complex documents at work i always prefer to print them off rather than read from the monitor.

I can see the advantage of kindles etc for travel but will still continue to buy books.

I have stopped buying dirty mags however and now view all my porn online 😆

+1 saxonrider

We have lots of e-textbooks for undergrads. But when i need to read one of the chapters i print it out so i can annotate it. We use iPads in seminars sometimes, and it is much easier to search for keywords electronically, but when you're looking across more than one page it is so frustrating to do electronically.

I will all ways have books - many of my books will not be available on a kindle having been out of print for decades. I will probably get a kindle tho for backpacking. last backpacking trip we had over a kilo of books with us - two kindles would be lighter

Ebooks will not be the end of books - there is so much a book can do that a klindle never can. Less book sales perhaps

TBH as soon as they offer some sensible way to get your existing books onto an ereader, I'm sold... I do like books and they'll still have their place but I don't have room for the books I own now, and I'm still buying more... And I read fast, so hauling a pile of paperbacks around on holiday is a total pain.

I have stopped buying dirty mags however and now view all my porn online

I've been reading eBooks for years. (I've just realised it's almost a decade! God I'm old.) I've used various devices, and whilst I love the convenience of electronic reading, it's not killed my love of printed paper books. I like them both, they each have their pros and cons.

In contrast, the number of CDs and vinyl records I've bought in the last few years has to be down in the double digits, and I buy a fair amount of music. I'd be the same with movies etc if it wasn't for the fact that I have a lousy DSL connection and it would be a massive pain to download digital video regularly. The difference is that you need a CD player or a DVD player to use those things, and when you have a computer you can just cut out the middle-man and go directly digital. A book, though, stands by itself. All you need is your eyes and (unless you're reading Dan Brown or something) a brain.

The unit cost of printed books will probably go up over the next few years due to reduced demand, and there will probably be far fewer titles available, but I don't think the book will go away completely in the way that, say, magnetic cassette tapes or floppy discs pretty much have, and the way that CDs and DVDs will. The book is far too elegant an invention for that to happen.

Well for me the kindle version outsells my paperback by around 3 to 1, but then the kindle version is around 1/3 of the cost of the book right now.

For me reading a story on a kindle is fine, but for academic works I really feel the need for marking sections, adding notes and flipping back and forth and I can't see myself giving up books any time soon. Maybe a few which are not so important to me I would read on a Kindle.

Maybe if interfaces improve in the coming year it may get better, and there is the advantage of space when travelling, but I also have a dream of having a mini library in my home one day with all my books finally on shelves.

john_drummer - Member
real books:
1) don't need a battery to be kept charged
2) still work if the dog chews them a bit
3) still work if the dog pees on them
4) still work if you drop them
5) still work if you drop them in the swimming pool
6) can be borrowed from a library
7) can be lent/given to somebody else when you've done with them

gadget for gadget's sake IMO

you've put me right off librarys too

I rarely buy new books... again, I doubt kindles etc will see the death of 2nd hand bookshops. Or for that matter, libraries.

I'd never take my kindle to the beach or on the bog or in the bath.

But really, there's nothing quite as nice as holding a real book. Maybe once old fogies like me all die off and the new generation who have only know ebooks are in charge, then your revolution will happen.

And then of course these chaps will turn up.
[img] [/img]

Don't say I didn't warn you. And if anybody doesn't know who those chaps are, you need to read more books.

[i]Or for that matter, libraries. [/i]

Not many left now....

Morlocks

Not many left now....

Tis true, unfortunately. I suppose I meant that the [i]demand[/i] is still there... judging by what I see in Bristol's central library, anyway.

[url= http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/35 ]The Time Machine[/url]

Funny only the other day we were putting a load of the old kids books up in the loft, the bread knife not wishing to chuck them away cos of the memory's they hold for us, each of the kids had a favourite they'd demand read over and over.
It'll be the grandchildren next she said... Nah said I, grand kids if and when they come will have ebooks, probably won't even have to read them, they'll just plug right on in. They'll have digital ipaper for pictures nobody will need to read the info will get delivered as a memory. You never know what's coming. But they'll probably not need these books ever again.

samuri - Member
Or for that matter, libraries.

Not many left now....

really? got any figures?

samuri - Member
Or for that matter, libraries.

Not many left now....

really? got any figures?

Big worry for me would be what happens to all your e-books and paid for content if Amazon or whoever is running the platform goes tits up. I'd imagine it would all disappear overnight. Remember what happened when there was an IP dispute over the Orwell books.
[url= http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2009/jul/17/amazon-kindle-1984 ]Kindle Orwell Incident[/url]

I listen to a lot of audiobooks, so would echo CharlieMungus' comment about ease of flipping back and forward where necessary to check facts. Much more hassle on an MP3 player.

That said, I read a lot of paperbacks and they're invaluable on cycling tours. Read 20 pages, set up camp the next night and voila: 20 pages of instant kindling for your camp fire (plus weight loss). Grand.

The 'transferability' issue mentioned earlier might be the cllncher.

I still buy pretty much all my music on CD but the first thing I do when I get it home/open up the parcel is stick it in the laptop and rip it to .mp3. I love having the physical object but prefer the ease of use of the digital version.

Sure some publishers are doing it already, but I reckon the tipping point might start to come when you automatically get an e-book license when you buy a physical book. Best of both worlds? What about a 'smart' wireless bookmark that reads page numbers and syncs your ebook version automatically so you can switch seamlessly between physical and ebook?

Not a huge book reader myself but my wife Zoe is (was). Got her a Kindle last Christmas and it's the first electronic gadget I've ever seen her 'engage' with. Don't think she has picked up a physical book for pleasure reading since.

slainte 💡 rob

[i]really? got any figures? [/i]

I've no figures for how many are left but if you review the individual region figures it certainly feels that way. I know the Wirral has recently announced closure of a great many and Doncaster recently accounced closures for most of their libraries. Those are the two that stick in my mind but I hear these reports regularly. Maybe it's my perception but it still fills me with great sadness.
I used to love visiting the single library in town and when I started secondary school I was amazed with how large their library was. Indeed, I got my head kicked in more than once for spending my free time in there. Waiting outside the library door is like shooting fish in a barrel for most school bullies.

This is quite an old story about my local MP who claims 400 libraries have been closed or at risk of closure despite increasing numbers of people visiting them.,
[url] http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-12273240 [/url]

Of course, libraries don't really make money so screw 'em.

Maybe books will be viewed with the same fondness as vinyl?

I think we will have sunk to a new low as a society if books cease to be 😥

Agreed. Wonderful things. I struggle with the concept that items have soul but if any item does, it's a book. There's a story in every one and holding one that hundreds of people have read, have poured over, have held deep into the night, have cried into and laughed with. They're friends to a lot of people, full of comfort and support, information, learning and insight. They can motivate nations and can bring down governments.

You can rule the world with a well written book, or bring a tyranny to its knees.

What an amazing invention. Keep it alive. Love a book today.

I love books, for me they are imbued with emotion and a connection with the past. I have books handed down from my grandmother, others from my mother, some inscribed with messages from friends and lovers. I have books that have an association with key moments in my life, times of change, where the content of the book resonated with how I was feeling or what I was thinking.

I love the smell and feel of books - the soft pages of old ones and the fresh crisp feel as you turn the page of a brand new book which has never been opened before. I have different books scattered round the house, in the bedroom, bathroom and lounge, and bookshelves groaning with my collective reading past.

A world without books would be a sad place for me

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fahrenheit_451

"things" like my dads dads stampbook that I pressed stamps in as a child are important to me. That's not just my childhood feelings and memories, that's my dads, and his dads. That's serious emotional content!! With stamp history included as a bonus. There is no reason why anyone can't imprint emotions on a bunch of paper and ink. Too much modern technology is transitional. Mind u, I left an old girlfriend with a bookcase of books cos she thought it would make her more interesting. **** the books!

I work in publishing and can't stand reading books on a gadget of some sort. I can just about manage long articles but never a whole book. It's just not a pleasurable experience, nor a memorable one. I'm travelling at the moment and have a couple of well-thumbed paperbacks (that said, I'm amazed at the number of backpackers with iPads...).

There will always be a market for beautifully produced books. It's notable that the genres that do very well in cheap ebook format often involve vampires/spaceships/warlocks. Read into that what you will. One area where I think ebooks will strike gold is in textbooks - no more lugging around heavy textbooks that you will only need for one term/year etc.

I prefer a book too - I blogged my thoughts on the very subject...

http://blog.origincreative.co.uk/2011/10/12/keeping-it-real/

My local newsagent still does a roaring traflde in jazz mags, despite the Invention of the Internet. 36 different publications on last count. There's nothing quite like holding the real thing, plus you can't store a PC in the bushes.

There is actually a social angle to this. You have to have a computer, or ready access to one, to be able to download and buy your book. If the paper books do start to disappear then you will potentially have a lot of people in any society without access to information contained in books, whether it be stories, news, magazines even.

The main thing that I love about books, especially reference books, is that when you start to look for one thing you flick through to find it and inevitably find something else completely unconnected, but way more interesting, than what you started to look for.

It's notable that the genres that do very well in cheap ebook format often involve vampires/spaceships/warlocks. Read into that what you will.

All I can read into that quote is a poster sneering at geeks, but maybe I'm over sensitive. As far as I can see there aren't any books including vampires/spaceships/warlocks in the [url= http://tinyurl.com/dxk4362 ]Amazon.co.uk top 10[/url] of Kindle sales - there is a lot of crime, though. I also read that sales are up of books people would be embarrassed to read on the train - Mills and Boon, for example.

For me the Kindle's ideal for replacing cheap paperbacks, the kind that you read once and don't return to. For non-fiction stuff nothing beats a real book, as has been pointed out you can't easily flick back and forward through an eBook, and the (normal sized) Kindle is particularly useless when it comes to maps or diagrams.

There is actually a social angle to this. You have to have a computer, or ready access to one, to be able to download and buy your book.

For me the Kindle's ideal for replacing cheap paperbacks, the kind that you read once and don't return to. For non-fiction stuff nothing beats a real book, as has been pointed out you can't easily flick back and forward through an eBook, and the (normal sized) Kindle is particularly useless when it comes to maps or diagrams.

Absolutely. I won't read an e-edition of a magazine, as it's the sort of thing I read sections of, and open almost at a random page, knowing there'll be something to hold my attention.*

I read fiction books quite differently; here, they're read totally sequentially (though I may go back a few pages on picking it up just to re-establish the mood), and for this reason a Kindle works really well for me. The fact that I can carry 100 books around with me is great, and the ability to sample is a real benefit. As a result, I'm reading stuff I'd never have looked at before; as an example, I'mcurrently enjoying a year-in-the-life account of working at Sainsbury, which is a standout because it's so well-written. It cost all of 99p.

eBooks give me the chance to visit the bookshop without all that traipsing around. And although many people enjoy the feel of paper, the sheer bulk is frustrating. I've probably got well over 2000 books in my library because (a) I never throw one away (b) I read a lot (c) I'm in my 40s (d) I don't like the selection the library offers. My wife hates the fact that the books have been taking up vast amounts of space ever since she's known me.

The other thing to ay is that the screen is excellent - much better than a laptop, and easily as good as a cheaply printed book, with the big advantage that you can change the font size should you need to.

Bottom line: I've had a Kindle for 6 months, and in that time have purchased three physical books. In the previous six months I probably purchased thirty. I'm a total convert

*Although not if it's MBR, but that's nothing to do with the format, and everything to do with the content.

I love books, the most perfect, the most important piece of technology ever invented, and they can be works of art too.

I have an e-book reader, and I can never remember the titles of books I read either !

I probably buy about the same number of books as e-books. I don't think books will ever die out.

The government may well kill libraries tho.

Book fans check this out:

http://thisiscentralstation.com/featured/mysterious-paper-sculptures/

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/booksblog/2011/dec/01/edinburgh-book-sculptures

I'm a convert to ebooks. I have always been a massive reader and there are many benefits, it is easier to hold than large/heavy books, obviously many more books with you and not cluttering up the house and some of the books I have found on amazon are excellent and if you look carefully not expensive.
There are many self published books that are well worth a look too, I have read Kok and Tvatt and 3 Bent Links both from threads on here, I have also really enjoyed "you have gone to far this time sir" and "the hungry cyclist" neither that I would have found at my local book shop, I may have on amazon.

There is still a place for paperbooks though, those with good pictures etc and coffee table type books would not work on a kindle. As mentioned above mine does not go into the bathroom with me either nor probably a beach so its always useful to have a paperback for those occasions

I did like this comment

[i]My local newsagent still does a roaring traflde in jazz mags, despite the Invention of the Internet. 36 different publications on last count. There's nothing quite like holding the real thing, plus you can't store a PC in the bushes.[/i]

These is nothing like holding the real thing, don't buy a jazz mag, get a girlfriend/boyfriend 🙂

From an academic point of view, you can't really engage the book in a 'dialogue' if you don't have margins. That makes something like an ebook less than ideal. Many of the books I use are marked up with pencil - something that really does enable a type of 'conversation' with the text.

You can make notes on a Kindle. They're sharable and searchable too.

I like the idea but it has a few flaws for me.

I often share my books with other people once I have finished reading them.

I read in the bath a lot.

eBooks are not that much cheaper than physical ones.

Also availability

Take the last 5 books I have read.

One Hundred Years of Solitude, available but £20.70 I paid under a tenner.

Rebecca, Daphne Du Maurier, not available.

Fahrenheit 451, Ray Bradbury, not available.

Catcher in the Rye, J D Salinger, not available

Catch 22, Joseph Heller, Yey available and cheaper

So for me I don't think it would work that well, if I do take a long break away at some point though I could be tempted at that point as I am not against the technology, though some of the ownership rights issues trouble me.

Most important of all - a book is VAT free.

An ebook is classed as software and therefore is VAT applicable.

I'll stick to paper ones thanks 🙂

Most important of all - a book is VAT free.

An ebook is classed as software and therefore is VAT applicable.

For now.

Big worry for me would be what happens to all your e-books and paid for content if Amazon or whoever is running the platform goes tits up.

There's ways round that.

I've got a Kindle and it's one of the best things I've ever bought but that's because I travel a lot for work and it's small and light and easier to read when your sat alone in restaurant as you don't need to employ spare cutlery to hold the book open while you eat. I also love the built in dictionary.

It is those primarily a device for reading fiction on where you always move through the book from beginning to end. It is nowhere near as good as a real book for reference works where you want to flick backwards and forwards.

However whereas I'm happy to have all my music and movies stored digitally and nothing on the shelves I will always want books on the shelves and I have no intention of getting rid of them and I will still buy real books as well as e books.

Regarding flipping back and forwards: this is a bit sucky at the moment, as are several aspects of ebook readers (low refresh rate, poor colour) but the tech is still very much in its infancy.

Imagine your children or grandchildren's future where your ebook reader has the feel of a real book, with multiple pages that are as thin and as flexible as paper and maybe touch sensitive so you can draw on them to annotate it.

Will paper books survive that?

Do you think this kid will be reading paperbacks when they grow up?

Books and ebooks are not mutually exclusive. We've published our first book , 'blame the dog" both as an ebook and a printed book. Ironically in terms of costs of production and distribution the two formats are remarkably similar. This is down to the cut taken by distributors like Amazon and the fact there's 20% VAT on the ebook version. Excluding the fact that subscribers get the ebook version or free and just looking at our amazon sales against our print book sales, they're pretty even so far. Same price for both.

It seems to me that all ebooks have done is open up reading opportunities to more people. Those who like printed books will still read and buy printed books. Those, like my kids, who I struggled to force to sit down with paper books, have now read more books in the last year then they have in the previous 5. The difference? I bought them each a Kindle.

The upshot of ebooks isn't that printed books are not in danger but simply that more people are reading books now. This is a good thing 🙂

The upshot of ebooks isn't that printed books are now in danger but simply that more people are reading books now. This is a good thing

That's a reassuring thought. Smashing. 😀

I'll be keeping my books, otherwise my bookshelves will look a bit daft.

I'm getting a kindle for christmas, so we will see. I like the idea of not lugging about a massive tome, currently reading Magician. It's a bit wordy even in paperback.

I do like being able to look and see how much progress im making by seeing where my bookmark is (currently using an old tax disc for the job), not sure how you quickly do that with a ereader.

Is 'book' still the correct term to use for these electronic readers?

They're not books any more, just data files.
They're not printed or written.
There are no actual pages.

Definition of 'book':
A set of written, printed, or blank pages fastened along one side and encased between protective covers.

People call them books so they're books. Pedantic types may complain but really, who cares?

Er no, they are e-books, and the device is an e-book reader.

Book decribes the format, not the content.

I think we will have sunk to a new low as a society if books cease to be

Hang about, society is screwed because we no longer need to mash up trees and print words on them? Instead we have an infinitely reproducable, waste free, totally decentralised method of anyone and everyone who wishes to express themselves to publish their work? And this is a sign of the end to you?

Oooh, I see, you like bricks of paper? You have an attachment to the medium by which your information is delivered as well as to the information itself? I have loads of paper and spend most of my life trying to get rid of it.

I must be really misssing somthing.

e-book readers say "I've just finished a book", not "I've just finished an e-book"

(unless of course they're the type of person who also says "I've just got to make a call on my iPhone")

Is 'book' still the correct term to use for these electronic readers?

Listened to an album on your mp3 player recently?

I missed something on TV last night, but it's ok, I've taped it.

Reading books whilst on E is probably fun, but we can't possibly condone this kind of behaviour in society.

Hang about, society is screwed because we no longer need to mash up trees and print words on them? Instead we have an infinitely reproducable, waste free

I would hazard a guess that the energy and raw materials used in producing a kindle device, shipping it halfway round the world, downloading a book and then recharging the kindle battery are probably slightly more than used in printing a book.

Be an interesting study to read, I bet someone somewhere has done a proper comparison?

I'll be keeping my books, otherwise my bookshelves will look a bit daft.

Ikea recently redesigned their Billy bookcase with deeper shelves, because people weren't actually putting books onto them anymore.

I would hazard a guess that the energy and raw materials used in producing a kindle device, shipping it halfway round the world, downloading a book and then recharging the kindle battery are probably slightly more than used in printing a book.

But that energy is spread across every book read on the Kindle.

I would hazard a guess that the energy and raw materials used in producing a kindle device, shipping it halfway round the world, downloading a book and then recharging the kindle battery are probably slightly more than used in printing a book.

I imagine that's correct. But, what about for five hundred books?