[Closed] The end of books?

[i]really? got any figures? [/i]

I've no figures for how many are left but if you review the individual region figures it certainly feels that way. I know the Wirral has recently announced closure of a great many and Doncaster recently accounced closures for most of their libraries. Those are the two that stick in my mind but I hear these reports regularly. Maybe it's my perception but it still fills me with great sadness.
I used to love visiting the single library in town and when I started secondary school I was amazed with how large their library was. Indeed, I got my head kicked in more than once for spending my free time in there. Waiting outside the library door is like shooting fish in a barrel for most school bullies.

This is quite an old story about my local MP who claims 400 libraries have been closed or at risk of closure despite increasing numbers of people visiting them.,
[url] http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-12273240 [/url]

Of course, libraries don't really make money so screw 'em.

Maybe books will be viewed with the same fondness as vinyl?

I think we will have sunk to a new low as a society if books cease to be 😥

Agreed. Wonderful things. I struggle with the concept that items have soul but if any item does, it's a book. There's a story in every one and holding one that hundreds of people have read, have poured over, have held deep into the night, have cried into and laughed with. They're friends to a lot of people, full of comfort and support, information, learning and insight. They can motivate nations and can bring down governments.

You can rule the world with a well written book, or bring a tyranny to its knees.

What an amazing invention. Keep it alive. Love a book today.

I love books, for me they are imbued with emotion and a connection with the past. I have books handed down from my grandmother, others from my mother, some inscribed with messages from friends and lovers. I have books that have an association with key moments in my life, times of change, where the content of the book resonated with how I was feeling or what I was thinking.

I love the smell and feel of books - the soft pages of old ones and the fresh crisp feel as you turn the page of a brand new book which has never been opened before. I have different books scattered round the house, in the bedroom, bathroom and lounge, and bookshelves groaning with my collective reading past.

A world without books would be a sad place for me

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fahrenheit_451

"things" like my dads dads stampbook that I pressed stamps in as a child are important to me. That's not just my childhood feelings and memories, that's my dads, and his dads. That's serious emotional content!! With stamp history included as a bonus. There is no reason why anyone can't imprint emotions on a bunch of paper and ink. Too much modern technology is transitional. Mind u, I left an old girlfriend with a bookcase of books cos she thought it would make her more interesting. **** the books!

I work in publishing and can't stand reading books on a gadget of some sort. I can just about manage long articles but never a whole book. It's just not a pleasurable experience, nor a memorable one. I'm travelling at the moment and have a couple of well-thumbed paperbacks (that said, I'm amazed at the number of backpackers with iPads...).

There will always be a market for beautifully produced books. It's notable that the genres that do very well in cheap ebook format often involve vampires/spaceships/warlocks. Read into that what you will. One area where I think ebooks will strike gold is in textbooks - no more lugging around heavy textbooks that you will only need for one term/year etc.

I prefer a book too - I blogged my thoughts on the very subject...

http://blog.origincreative.co.uk/2011/10/12/keeping-it-real/

My local newsagent still does a roaring traflde in jazz mags, despite the Invention of the Internet. 36 different publications on last count. There's nothing quite like holding the real thing, plus you can't store a PC in the bushes.

There is actually a social angle to this. You have to have a computer, or ready access to one, to be able to download and buy your book. If the paper books do start to disappear then you will potentially have a lot of people in any society without access to information contained in books, whether it be stories, news, magazines even.

The main thing that I love about books, especially reference books, is that when you start to look for one thing you flick through to find it and inevitably find something else completely unconnected, but way more interesting, than what you started to look for.

It's notable that the genres that do very well in cheap ebook format often involve vampires/spaceships/warlocks. Read into that what you will.

All I can read into that quote is a poster sneering at geeks, but maybe I'm over sensitive. As far as I can see there aren't any books including vampires/spaceships/warlocks in the [url= http://tinyurl.com/dxk4362 ]Amazon.co.uk top 10[/url] of Kindle sales - there is a lot of crime, though. I also read that sales are up of books people would be embarrassed to read on the train - Mills and Boon, for example.

For me the Kindle's ideal for replacing cheap paperbacks, the kind that you read once and don't return to. For non-fiction stuff nothing beats a real book, as has been pointed out you can't easily flick back and forward through an eBook, and the (normal sized) Kindle is particularly useless when it comes to maps or diagrams.

There is actually a social angle to this. You have to have a computer, or ready access to one, to be able to download and buy your book.

For me the Kindle's ideal for replacing cheap paperbacks, the kind that you read once and don't return to. For non-fiction stuff nothing beats a real book, as has been pointed out you can't easily flick back and forward through an eBook, and the (normal sized) Kindle is particularly useless when it comes to maps or diagrams.

Absolutely. I won't read an e-edition of a magazine, as it's the sort of thing I read sections of, and open almost at a random page, knowing there'll be something to hold my attention.*

I read fiction books quite differently; here, they're read totally sequentially (though I may go back a few pages on picking it up just to re-establish the mood), and for this reason a Kindle works really well for me. The fact that I can carry 100 books around with me is great, and the ability to sample is a real benefit. As a result, I'm reading stuff I'd never have looked at before; as an example, I'mcurrently enjoying a year-in-the-life account of working at Sainsbury, which is a standout because it's so well-written. It cost all of 99p.

eBooks give me the chance to visit the bookshop without all that traipsing around. And although many people enjoy the feel of paper, the sheer bulk is frustrating. I've probably got well over 2000 books in my library because (a) I never throw one away (b) I read a lot (c) I'm in my 40s (d) I don't like the selection the library offers. My wife hates the fact that the books have been taking up vast amounts of space ever since she's known me.

The other thing to ay is that the screen is excellent - much better than a laptop, and easily as good as a cheaply printed book, with the big advantage that you can change the font size should you need to.

Bottom line: I've had a Kindle for 6 months, and in that time have purchased three physical books. In the previous six months I probably purchased thirty. I'm a total convert

*Although not if it's MBR, but that's nothing to do with the format, and everything to do with the content.

I love books, the most perfect, the most important piece of technology ever invented, and they can be works of art too.

I have an e-book reader, and I can never remember the titles of books I read either !

I probably buy about the same number of books as e-books. I don't think books will ever die out.

The government may well kill libraries tho.

Book fans check this out:

http://thisiscentralstation.com/featured/mysterious-paper-sculptures/

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/booksblog/2011/dec/01/edinburgh-book-sculptures

I'm a convert to ebooks. I have always been a massive reader and there are many benefits, it is easier to hold than large/heavy books, obviously many more books with you and not cluttering up the house and some of the books I have found on amazon are excellent and if you look carefully not expensive.
There are many self published books that are well worth a look too, I have read Kok and Tvatt and 3 Bent Links both from threads on here, I have also really enjoyed "you have gone to far this time sir" and "the hungry cyclist" neither that I would have found at my local book shop, I may have on amazon.

There is still a place for paperbooks though, those with good pictures etc and coffee table type books would not work on a kindle. As mentioned above mine does not go into the bathroom with me either nor probably a beach so its always useful to have a paperback for those occasions

I did like this comment

[i]My local newsagent still does a roaring traflde in jazz mags, despite the Invention of the Internet. 36 different publications on last count. There's nothing quite like holding the real thing, plus you can't store a PC in the bushes.[/i]

These is nothing like holding the real thing, don't buy a jazz mag, get a girlfriend/boyfriend 🙂

From an academic point of view, you can't really engage the book in a 'dialogue' if you don't have margins. That makes something like an ebook less than ideal. Many of the books I use are marked up with pencil - something that really does enable a type of 'conversation' with the text.

You can make notes on a Kindle. They're sharable and searchable too.

I like the idea but it has a few flaws for me.

I often share my books with other people once I have finished reading them.

I read in the bath a lot.

eBooks are not that much cheaper than physical ones.

Also availability

Take the last 5 books I have read.

One Hundred Years of Solitude, available but £20.70 I paid under a tenner.

Rebecca, Daphne Du Maurier, not available.

Fahrenheit 451, Ray Bradbury, not available.

Catcher in the Rye, J D Salinger, not available

Catch 22, Joseph Heller, Yey available and cheaper

So for me I don't think it would work that well, if I do take a long break away at some point though I could be tempted at that point as I am not against the technology, though some of the ownership rights issues trouble me.

Most important of all - a book is VAT free.

An ebook is classed as software and therefore is VAT applicable.

I'll stick to paper ones thanks 🙂

Most important of all - a book is VAT free.

An ebook is classed as software and therefore is VAT applicable.

For now.

Big worry for me would be what happens to all your e-books and paid for content if Amazon or whoever is running the platform goes tits up.

There's ways round that.

I've got a Kindle and it's one of the best things I've ever bought but that's because I travel a lot for work and it's small and light and easier to read when your sat alone in restaurant as you don't need to employ spare cutlery to hold the book open while you eat. I also love the built in dictionary.

It is those primarily a device for reading fiction on where you always move through the book from beginning to end. It is nowhere near as good as a real book for reference works where you want to flick backwards and forwards.

However whereas I'm happy to have all my music and movies stored digitally and nothing on the shelves I will always want books on the shelves and I have no intention of getting rid of them and I will still buy real books as well as e books.

Regarding flipping back and forwards: this is a bit sucky at the moment, as are several aspects of ebook readers (low refresh rate, poor colour) but the tech is still very much in its infancy.

Imagine your children or grandchildren's future where your ebook reader has the feel of a real book, with multiple pages that are as thin and as flexible as paper and maybe touch sensitive so you can draw on them to annotate it.

Will paper books survive that?

Do you think this kid will be reading paperbacks when they grow up?

Books and ebooks are not mutually exclusive. We've published our first book , 'blame the dog" both as an ebook and a printed book. Ironically in terms of costs of production and distribution the two formats are remarkably similar. This is down to the cut taken by distributors like Amazon and the fact there's 20% VAT on the ebook version. Excluding the fact that subscribers get the ebook version or free and just looking at our amazon sales against our print book sales, they're pretty even so far. Same price for both.

It seems to me that all ebooks have done is open up reading opportunities to more people. Those who like printed books will still read and buy printed books. Those, like my kids, who I struggled to force to sit down with paper books, have now read more books in the last year then they have in the previous 5. The difference? I bought them each a Kindle.

The upshot of ebooks isn't that printed books are not in danger but simply that more people are reading books now. This is a good thing 🙂

The upshot of ebooks isn't that printed books are now in danger but simply that more people are reading books now. This is a good thing

That's a reassuring thought. Smashing. 😀

I'll be keeping my books, otherwise my bookshelves will look a bit daft.

I'm getting a kindle for christmas, so we will see. I like the idea of not lugging about a massive tome, currently reading Magician. It's a bit wordy even in paperback.

I do like being able to look and see how much progress im making by seeing where my bookmark is (currently using an old tax disc for the job), not sure how you quickly do that with a ereader.

Is 'book' still the correct term to use for these electronic readers?

They're not books any more, just data files.
They're not printed or written.
There are no actual pages.

Definition of 'book':
A set of written, printed, or blank pages fastened along one side and encased between protective covers.

People call them books so they're books. Pedantic types may complain but really, who cares?

Er no, they are e-books, and the device is an e-book reader.

Book decribes the format, not the content.

I think we will have sunk to a new low as a society if books cease to be

Hang about, society is screwed because we no longer need to mash up trees and print words on them? Instead we have an infinitely reproducable, waste free, totally decentralised method of anyone and everyone who wishes to express themselves to publish their work? And this is a sign of the end to you?

Oooh, I see, you like bricks of paper? You have an attachment to the medium by which your information is delivered as well as to the information itself? I have loads of paper and spend most of my life trying to get rid of it.

I must be really misssing somthing.

e-book readers say "I've just finished a book", not "I've just finished an e-book"

(unless of course they're the type of person who also says "I've just got to make a call on my iPhone")

Is 'book' still the correct term to use for these electronic readers?

Listened to an album on your mp3 player recently?

I missed something on TV last night, but it's ok, I've taped it.

Reading books whilst on E is probably fun, but we can't possibly condone this kind of behaviour in society.

Hang about, society is screwed because we no longer need to mash up trees and print words on them? Instead we have an infinitely reproducable, waste free

I would hazard a guess that the energy and raw materials used in producing a kindle device, shipping it halfway round the world, downloading a book and then recharging the kindle battery are probably slightly more than used in printing a book.

Be an interesting study to read, I bet someone somewhere has done a proper comparison?

I'll be keeping my books, otherwise my bookshelves will look a bit daft.

Ikea recently redesigned their Billy bookcase with deeper shelves, because people weren't actually putting books onto them anymore.

I would hazard a guess that the energy and raw materials used in producing a kindle device, shipping it halfway round the world, downloading a book and then recharging the kindle battery are probably slightly more than used in printing a book.

But that energy is spread across every book read on the Kindle.

I would hazard a guess that the energy and raw materials used in producing a kindle device, shipping it halfway round the world, downloading a book and then recharging the kindle battery are probably slightly more than used in printing a book.

I imagine that's correct. But, what about for five hundred books?

Listened to an album on your mp3 player recently?

No 🙂

I missed something on TV last night, but it's ok, I've taped it.

Only my mum still 'tapes' things.

I would hazard a guess that the energy and raw materials used in producing a kindle device, shipping it halfway round the world, downloading a book and then recharging the kindle battery are probably slightly more than used in printing a book

I would bet my balls that a single Kindle would be more energy intensive than 20 books but you can read an almost unlimited number of books on a single Kindle. And it doesn't need to be a Kindle, you can use your iPad, Laptop, HTPC, smartphone etc, one of which you likely will have already.

gadget for gadget's sake IMO

Not at all.

Massivley more convenient than paper books.

1) I can take four or five books with me wherever I go, if I don't fancy one book a particular night
2) I can finish a book, it suggests a few more I might like and I can start a new one immediately instead of having to go to a book shop at the weekend.
3) It is always today's newspaper of my choice, wherever I am

Re the cost - every eBook I've ever bougt has been cheaper than paper. From £1 cheaper for new novels to £6 for huge computer books instead of the usual £25. Not to mention all the free ones of course.

Re being attached to paper - wtf? If I were an author I'd be pretty frickin offended if someone was more attached to the actual paper and ink than the content of my story. The content of the book is FAR more important. When I'm reading a good book I don't see the printed page, I see the world inside it. That's still the same.

I think this attachment to papery things is just nostalgia, and an association formed in our brains from previously reading good books. I really do love my Kindle, because of the wonders it contains. I've not had it that long but I've read some utterly wonderful books on it, which is enough 🙂

Thats why I was 'hazarding a guess'! Done a little bit of reading round the subject in the last 10 mins, and they generally say that 40-50 books is the break even point environmentally (for the lifetime of the product).

But what if those 40-50 books are then passed onto someone else to read?

Or someone only reads 2-3 ebooks, and then sticks their kindle in a drawer (I suspect this happens a lot!)

I'm not an environmental nut or anything, conundrums like this are just interesting. I suspect there is no definitive answer...

There was a really good Car Pool episode recently where Cory Doctorow talked about the future of books/publishing. Hang on...

Here you go:

My Kindle books are on my phone, that I'd have anyway. No extra energy cost.

Fahrenheit 451, Ray Bradbury, not available.

Catcher in the Rye, J D Salinger, not available

Catch 22, Joseph Heller, Yey available and cheaper

Catch 22 - 86p on Kindle
Catcher in the Rye - 86p on Kindle
Farenheit 451 - £2.56 on Kindle
Rebecca - 86p on Kindle

That's a lot of reading for less than the price of two pints.

You can rule the world with a well written book, or bring a tyranny to its knees

You still can if it's an eBook! The words are important, not the medium. Sue_W - if we had no paper books and only eBooks, the world would not be without books, would it? We would still get joy from them in eBook form.

Of course I'm not advocating that we have no paper books - not everone can afford a Kindle and there are many books already in existence. But I'm making a point that a good book is a good book regardless of how it's distributed.

I do like being able to look and see how much progress im making by seeing where my bookmark is (currently using an old tax disc for the job), not sure how you quickly do that with a ereader.

Kindle has a 'status bar' on the bottom of every page.

How easy is it to unlock a Kindle. I'd love one, but don't like the "we own all teh books" Amazon model.

Catch 22 - 86p on Kindle
Catcher in the Rye - 86p on Kindle
Farenheit 451 - £2.56 on Kindle
Rebecca - 86p on Kindle

Have a closer look at those Molegrips !!! They are reading guides for the books. Either that or I am crap at searching on amazon.

edited to add

If I am wrong can you post the links as I would be interested as I did this exercise before deciding not to buy one.

---Ikea recently redesigned their Billy bookcase with deeper shelves, because people weren't actually putting books onto them anymore.---

its a couple of billys i have, oh is called billy as well. how many billys do you need. 3!

----Kindle has a 'status bar' on the bottom of every page---

now thats handy. i think im going to like my kindle! i hope the billy above preloads it with Red Dog!